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Answer Not What Kinda Player You Want, Answer What Kinda Player Uncle Phil Wants
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misterearl
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1/27/2015  10:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  10:41 AM
Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

once a knick always a knick
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Nalod
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1/27/2015  11:21 AM
Good title and a great point.
knicks1248
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1/27/2015  11:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  11:35 AM
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

seems to me Kobe, Shaq, Mj, pipen, Rodman, horry, where all extremely talented players. Of course guys on 10 day contracts are going to fight like hell to keep a job so they can provide for their families.

The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.

ES
arkrud
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1/27/2015  11:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  11:39 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

seems to me Kobe, Shaq, Mj, pipen, Rodman, horry, where all extremely talented players. Of course guys on 10 day contracts are going to fight like hell to keep a job so they can provide for their families.

The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears, if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.

Fish is not a coach yet. He is thrown in the water to learn to swim on the fly.
So far he is barely keeping his head of the water.
But the main goal is served - we are in play for the lottery.
Great job by Phil to facilitate this on every level.
Fans want to see instant gratification of wins.
Someone need to think about the future.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knicks1248
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1/27/2015  11:54 AM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

seems to me Kobe, Shaq, Mj, pipen, Rodman, horry, where all extremely talented players. Of course guys on 10 day contracts are going to fight like hell to keep a job so they can provide for their families.

The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears, if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.

Fish is not a coach yet. He is thrown in the water to learn to swim on the fly.
So far he is barely keeping his head of the water.
But the main goal is served - we are in play for the lottery.
Great job by Phil to facilitate this on every level.
Fans want to see instant gratification of wins.
Someone need to think about the future.

Who's the player that were throwing away entire season for, that were ruining the development of a young coach, young players, that were sinking the value of every current player on the roster, that we have now become a not so hot destination for FA's.

I don't see no LBJ, or Kobe's, no MJ's or shaqs, we have 1 pick and a 60 % chance of it being a bust

ES
RonRon
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1/27/2015  12:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  12:58 PM
We will have enough room for

1 MAX OFFER
2 Poison Pills (though I cannot think of any players outside of the PG/Combo guard that would be likely, the contracts would have an affect on the final year, the 3rd year which would be during the 2017/2018 and would expire for the 2018-2019 season
During the 2nd year of the poison pill, it would be the same year that Durant/Noah would likely be UFA's and which is also the same year the cap rises much, so the year after is when the poison pill will kick in
However, with the $$$$ that MSG and Dolan makes, ONE year of taxes is virtually NOTHING, as we would be resetted this upcoming season regardless
With the money we make, it would be a strategy to definately consider, though we must find talent that is worthy of signing to such a deal, not simply for the sake of doing so
I do not think we can offer a poison pills to players like Danny Green, Gereld Green, Wesley Mathewws etc but maybe I am wrong...
So which players are in their rookie contracts that would be RFA/UFA's that would be worthy of such a deal that might actually be worth that risk and be enough to allow the teams to consider to not match it?
Again, I believe poison pills can only be offered to players in their rookie deals and I am not sure about players like Greg Monroe (though I do not think that would be enough


Patrick Beverely
Reggie Jackson

Ernes Kanter *not even sure this would be enough as BIG men get payed a good amount of money*

Draymond Green *unlikely to be enough however, for the posters that think he isn't worthy a max, maybe offer 12m or so to a 4 year deal, for a poison deal structured at about 5m, 5m, 15m, it would give them plenty of time to move/trade players like Lee/Iggy, as GS would likely match, giving them 3 years of time to not worry about the 3rd year, while keeping their core together even while being the highest payed team while continue to build on their core and compete in the mean time


Full MLE if we resign Cole Aldrich or if we just make a trade with one of the lower trade exemptions as they eat up the salary cap and must be renounced in order for us to offer contracts out
Will be about 6m

So could be 2 contracts in about the 3m range with raises

Order of how to spend our cap space

1 - MAX, 1 MAX contract or near MAX depending on the years of experience, as the players with more years's MAX is much higher like Lebron...
2 - Poison Pills, 2 Poison Pills *doesn't have to be the MAX like what Asik and Lin got, it could a bit less like what Fields got*
3 - MLE (which we would need to keep Cole Aldrich and pay him to go over the cap* of which could be divided in to 2 players, even 3 players if we want, like a small portion in the range of 1m to secure Langston Galloway/Thanasis to 3 year deals, while using the rest on 2 players with raises

4- our #1st rounder this summer that could be a TOP 3 pick and any 2nd rounders or/and picks that we could BUY/trade for/trade up for with rest of our roster from
Pablo, Tim Hardaway JR, Early, Acey, Larkin, Jason Smith *has been playing very well recently*, whoever is on our roster including draft rights of Louis Lafayeette, and even trading some of our future picks to get in this draft his summmer, especially with many teams with MULTIPLE picks that they cannot fully utilize especially Philly/Boston


Signing HIGH IQ, versatile players that could defend multiple positions, and highly talented players that could play both inside/out in all positions
In todays game, we want all all our players to be able to rebound/handle the ball/penetrate, and have all the skilled froma G having BIG man skills, and Big men having G skills, so everyone can be a threat on both ends with multiple options, this is how we should build our team with the philosophy off


Let's not forget both The Bulls and Laker's had multiple players that were all versatile and were highly talented/skilled


With Bulls,
with Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc has these versatile skills and was a big part of their success, the rotations of BIGS that were quite under rated on the BUlls that could hit the 17 footer and score in 1v1 scenarious with Post Up's and great cuts, with Grant, Lonley, Cartright, Bryan Williams, Ron Harper/Randy Wittman, Jud Buchler


Lakers's with
Gasol, Odom, Ariza, Horry, Fox/Devin George/, Brian Shaw/Ron Harper, Kobe, Shaq/Bynum

Multiple players that had the ability to INITIATE the OFFENSE out of with HIGH % and the ability to score 1v1 and pass out of double teams
Many players with the ability to POST UP and players that could force mismatches
With many players that were just making good cuts, hit wide open shots, and played good defense, that were "role players" but were very important to the success of their teams

arkrud
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1/27/2015  1:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

seems to me Kobe, Shaq, Mj, pipen, Rodman, horry, where all extremely talented players. Of course guys on 10 day contracts are going to fight like hell to keep a job so they can provide for their families.

The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears, if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.

Fish is not a coach yet. He is thrown in the water to learn to swim on the fly.
So far he is barely keeping his head of the water.
But the main goal is served - we are in play for the lottery.
Great job by Phil to facilitate this on every level.
Fans want to see instant gratification of wins.
Someone need to think about the future.

Who's the player that were throwing away entire season for, that were ruining the development of a young coach, young players, that were sinking the value of every current player on the roster, that we have now become a not so hot destination for FA's.

I don't see no LBJ, or Kobe's, no MJ's or shaqs, we have 1 pick and a 60 % chance of it being a bust

Except of Melo no players we have or had from the beginning of the season have any NBA value...
It was nothing to lose. Rock bottom.
FA will sign for the money, to play in NY, and to play under Zen... if they will want so.
And if they will not they can go kick rocks.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
RonRon
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1/27/2015  1:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  2:01 PM
I think first it would depend on what draft pick we get and who we likely will get from the draft
In addition if we get any more picks, either buying/trading with players or future picks/and/or trading with our fire sale that will happen, and then if we can move up if we do acquire a couple 2nd rounders

Then it would depend on if we can sign 2-3 players together, following in the steps of Miami, which is the complete opposite of the philosophy of GS, Atlanta, Spur's, and probably majority of the league/GM's will build their team around

If CA has the ability to attract players to come to NYK's, even after this dreadful 2 seasons in a row
Though the luck of the draft could help, I do not think many players will come because of the potential to play with OK4 or whoever

Think about it, when was the last time, Philly/Cleveland has actually attracted anyone the same year that they drafted a high potential player
It takes time to develop players and players in their 30's or so want to join the team that pays them the most and gives them the highest potential of winning/with the players around them that fit their skill set

What player did Anthony Davis attract to to NO?
Tyreke Evan's and they had to offer him a contract that no one else was going to offer him
So does that really count?
In fact Eric Gordon wanted OUT, wanted to go to Sun's and begged for NO to let him go....

What about Irving? Prior to his 1st year....

What about PHilly? Despite having the most potential upcoming with all the picks they have and their likelyhood of drafting many potential all stars upcoming
Now with Embid, Noel, MCW, and 34987974345 more picks


Boston? They have added/collected plenty of 1st rounders right next to Philly as well


What players did OKC and GS attract when they drafted their STAR's?
Green/Durant/Westbrook/Harden/

Monta Ellis/Curry/Lee/Klay Thompson/Barnes


Atlanta has a decent amount of picks and his in the TOP, their likelyhood of signing players is higher, mixed in with their style of play.....
Though they will have a couple of FA's to take care of like Millsap, DeMarre Carroll, Pero Antic, and Elton Brand/John Jenkings, with the first 3 playing a important role and Jenkings not getting much PT though we know he can shoot but not a good defender as a SG, G/F
Pero Antic is a very unique BIG, though his numbers aren't the greatest,
He could spread the floor as a 3pt shooter, but has the size/strength of player like Pekovic
While Horford was out during the last 2 years, he filled in for him, but with Horford back, he adds another backup Center with the abiilty to stretch the floor and bang with Centers so Horford can get a break
They have the option of going big, without losing shooters to spread the floor for Teague to penetrate/Millsap to play inside or out, and Horford and his mid range game, or bang if he wants...
Their payroll is currently about 40m, most of it would be needed to keep those FA's above, but we will have to wait and see...


Lets see if CA can attract players to come, especially players that are in demand
Despite being "one of the hardest to defend" quoted by many players,

newyorker4ever
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1/27/2015  2:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  2:47 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

seems to me Kobe, Shaq, Mj, pipen, Rodman, horry, where all extremely talented players. Of course guys on 10 day contracts are going to fight like hell to keep a job so they can provide for their families.

The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.


Can you confirm that players he played with actually said they question him having impact as a head coach?? All i've ever heard from players that have played with him is the opposite of what you're saying cause the ones i've heard talk about him as a coach say he'll be a great coach.
misterearl
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1/27/2015  3:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2015  4:41 PM
knicks1248 - Please stop with the vapid generalities.

knicks1248 wrote:
The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.

1. If the formula is so simple, why don't NBA General Managers, who are paid to do their jobs, get it right instantly? What criteria defines, "young guys on the come up"... abd where does one get these guys on the come up?

2. Fishers has yet to "take accountability"? Say what?

3. A lot of players "fisher had played with in the past" question his impact as a head coach"? Dude, are you just making ish up to conform to an agenda, or are you willing to cite specific quotes? Please list the players who made these remarks.

4. Motivational speeches like the ones given by the coach of the Chicago Bulls?

once a knick always a knick
knicks1248
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1/27/2015  5:23 PM
misterearl wrote:knicks1248 - Please stop with the vapid generalities.

knicks1248 wrote:
The formula is simple, get a couple stars, a few 2nd tier stars, a couple of scappers/rebounders/defensive guys, and a couple of young guys on the come up.

Fishers has yet to take accountability for some of the rookie assinine moves he's made, like rotations, play calling, and just not knowing how to get vets to step up and tune in. Playing unselfish basketball is one thing, but when your passing the ball around, and dudes are still missing wide open jumepers, never penetrating, and a avg 10 ft's as a team, your going to lose a lot of games, and guys will become selfish, and try to do it on their own.

A lot of players fisher had played with in the past, question his impact as a head coach, it's a different role than just being a second voice to the coach in the locker room, and after a while those motivational speeches will fall on deaf ears if he doesn't have that voice like he was as a player.

1. If the formula is so simple, why don't NBA General Managers, who are paid to do their jobs, get it right instantly? What criteria defines, "young guys on the come up"... abd where does one get these guys on the come up?

2. Fishers has yet to "take accountability"? Say what?

3. A lot of players "fisher had played with in the past" question his impact as a head coach"? Dude, are you just making ish up to conform to an agenda, or are you willing to cite specific quotes? Please list the players who made these remarks.

4. Motivational speeches like the ones given by the coach of the Chicago Bulls?

1-If you draft right, do your research, have quality scouts, you can find young players on the come up for cheap, like miami's White side, thats a come up. I never said it was simple, obviously it's not, the reason why there's over 10 head coaching vacancies every off season


2- for god sake he was playing 15 guys in the first qtr for most of the early parts of the season, we won 3 in row playing just 10 guys, something he's done just 4 times this season, it's not ironic we won 3 of those games

3-I ignore the article I read in septmeber about a couple of the players he played with (not name KD) stating how derrick fishers speeches would go over in the midst of losing, but when i have time i'll find the article. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt back than.

You guys are so wrap around this so called draft pick like he's going to save the franchise and derrick fishers job, it's a pipe dream if thats what your hoping for.

ES
misterearl
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1/27/2015  5:32 PM
Let's Go Overboartd

2- for god sake he was playing 15 guys in the first qtr

Really?

Who do you mean when you say "you guys"?

once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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1/27/2015  7:03 PM
The Fisher bashing needs to stop. In the end Fish is a rookie head coach. Phil knew he was raw when he picked him. I doubt anyone would expect him to be perfect early in his coaching career. It just seems foolish to judge a rookie coach on half of a season. A lot of things had to go right from the start and they didn't. That puts pressure on ANY coach when things are spinning and selfish players are not buying in. I think we can see now what Fish is actually teaching with players who are hungry and willing to buy in. Imagine how it will be when he has a team full of players who actually want to be here and want to play team ball.
knicks1248
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1/27/2015  9:51 PM
nixluva wrote:The Fisher bashing needs to stop. In the end Fish is a rookie head coach. Phil knew he was raw when he picked him. I doubt anyone would expect him to be perfect early in his coaching career. It just seems foolish to judge a rookie coach on half of a season. A lot of things had to go right from the start and they didn't. That puts pressure on ANY coach when things are spinning and selfish players are not buying in. I think we can see now what Fish is actually teaching with players who are hungry and willing to buy in. Imagine how it will be when he has a team full of players who actually want to be here and want to play team ball.

What rookie coach you know started a season with the worse record in the franchise history, and you just brush off like it's nothing. All I'm saying is that losing games to get 1 player is not conducive to a winning mentality, or professional atmosphere.

We're just Trading players for pennies on the dollar, and phil (which i'm trying to have a little faith in) hasn't done anything remotely good so far, I mean he's been about as bad as the weather man's forcast.

I'm not bashing fisher at all Nix, but stop giving him every excuse in the world for his failures, him and Jackson.

ES
VCoug
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1/27/2015  10:08 PM
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

I'm pretty sure some people had heard of Charles Oakley, he was the 9th overall pick.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
mreinman
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1/27/2015  10:11 PM
nixluva wrote:The Fisher bashing needs to stop. In the end Fish is a rookie head coach. Phil knew he was raw when he picked him. I doubt anyone would expect him to be perfect early in his coaching career. It just seems foolish to judge a rookie coach on half of a season. A lot of things had to go right from the start and they didn't. That puts pressure on ANY coach when things are spinning and selfish players are not buying in. I think we can see now what Fish is actually teaching with players who are hungry and willing to buy in. Imagine how it will be when he has a team full of players who actually want to be here and want to play team ball.

many people are not judging him necessarily on this year.

many felt that it was a weak / desperate hire.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
knicks1248
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1/28/2015  8:55 AM
mreinman wrote:
nixluva wrote:The Fisher bashing needs to stop. In the end Fish is a rookie head coach. Phil knew he was raw when he picked him. I doubt anyone would expect him to be perfect early in his coaching career. It just seems foolish to judge a rookie coach on half of a season. A lot of things had to go right from the start and they didn't. That puts pressure on ANY coach when things are spinning and selfish players are not buying in. I think we can see now what Fish is actually teaching with players who are hungry and willing to buy in. Imagine how it will be when he has a team full of players who actually want to be here and want to play team ball.

many people are not judging him necessarily on this year.

many felt that it was a weak / desperate hire.

Exactly, Fisher wants to claim he's not a puppet, but thats clearly obvious

ES
misterearl
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1/28/2015  9:33 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/28/2015  9:45 AM
VCoug wrote:
misterearl wrote:Carmelo Anthony forced his way to New York just in time for Dolan to trumpet the renovation of Madison Square Garden. Who cares if the big man snuck into Kennedy Airport by Donnis Walsh, Timofey Mozgov, was morphing into a crowd favorite? If Denver wanted every ambulatory player on the Knicks roster, he had to go along in the deal. Melo is stuck in the trainers room and Dolan is stuck with $120M on the books unless Melo has a sudden change of mind about his legacy.

“... you need guys like Lance and Lou and Langston that are facilitators of the offense and not constantly looking for shot opportunities for themselves.”

Not surprisingly, with an infusion new yoots ("did you say yoots?") Langston Galloway and Lance Thomas, rookie coach - Derek Fisher is finding his voice and the passion is on an uptick. Lou Amundson will never be mistaken for Tim Duncan, but he gets after the ball like he hasn't finished unpacking, which he hasn't. Tim Hardaway Jr. is not a lost cause, he simply needs a refresher course on ego maintenance.

Who needs luxury tag free agents when you can beat the bushes for the best athletes, and competitors, no one ever heard of?

Big name free agents need not apply. Nobody heard of Charles Oakley when he was at Virginia Union.

I'm pretty sure some people had heard of Charles Oakley, he was the 9th overall pick.

Pretty sure does not cut it.

To a majority of basketball fans, Charles Oakley was an unknown in college.

once a knick always a knick
mreinman
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1/28/2015  8:02 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
misterearl wrote:If the formula is so simple, why don't NBA General Managers, who are paid to do their jobs, get it right instantly?

What Kinda Player Uncle Phil Wants


I think the job of an NBA general manager is extremely complicated.

The draft is only 2 rounds, where true impact players sometime don't reach past the top 3 picks. The international market is all but scouted and tapped out, it's no longer a means for smarter and forward thinking teams to mine better undervalued players. Free agency often leaves very little true help for any roster, save the better teams or the better destination cities. Guaranteed contracts make the margin for error almost nil. There are more and more mechanisms to spread the talent, but it also doubles to create more incentives for teams who amass talent to let talent go instead of having more means to reap the rewards of strong team building over time. Teams have wised up to the use of analytics, the value of a 2nd round picks and their flexible option year potential, the cost controlled nature of first round picks and their cost certainty. While the D League is getting a little more traction, there really is no true established minor league/feeder system yet for the NBA. The league has likely expanded to too many teams compared to the number of actual franchise type player available. The height limitations required of the general talent pool ( consider 12 percent of the world's male population is 6 feet tall or over, and that when you get into the ranges of 6'7 and above, the numbers shrink dramatically, and when you add in the athleticism requirements to play at NBA speed, the potential total talent pool around the world is miniscule. ) create all kinds of imbalances in the league's talent dispersal system.

Remove handchecking, the loss of true fundamentals from the "One And Done" generation of player who only spent one year in college, and the Stern legacy of biased superstar driven type of officiating, and IMHO it's clear there are far too many systematic limitations for many teams to ever contend.

The NBA desperately needs a hard cap and the wide spread usage of non guaranteed contracts. This would give GMs in the league at least a fighting chance.

From David Simon's The Wire on HBO, I remember a discussion by drug kingpin Avon Barksdale to his nephew DeAngelo about the practical margin of error in real life, but also in their type of lives.

“Live the life, leave the life, ain’t no big thang, he used to talk that **** all the time and he believed it, know what I’m sayin? Was up baby, talk that **** now. It scare you don’t it? It scares me. Yeah. See, if he dead ya know I could carry it better, comin up the way we did you kind of expect that, you wait’n on it. See, the thing is you only got to **** up once. Be a little slow, be a little late, just once. And how you ain’t gonna never be slow? Never be late? You can’t plan for no **** like this man, it’s life. Yeah. It scares me.”


IMHO the league and Adam Silver are moving more towards the NFL model ( i.e. where the system allows a team to rebuild in a couple of years and more mechanism for true parity) but it's not there yet.

****


IMHO Phil Jackson's prototype player would be Joachim Noah. ( at least the version of him without all the injuries)

When some posters talk about a player who can enforce the tone of a locker room, I think the underrated guy in that regard would be Noah. He's a smart and tough team player, high BB IQ, relentless motor, frenetic competitor, balls out/step all the way down on the gas type of player. He's adaptable in any true team system but would be an excellent base for a big man in the high post running the Triangle offense.

Noah is the player he is today because he willed himself to be. Some dudes you have to shoot in the head to make sure they are down. Some guys beyond that, you shoot them in the head three times just to be sure, because those are the guys who will crawl on their fingernails to get the job done and claw your eyes out. The latter type, that's Noah.

It's too bad his health looks like it will be off/on the rest of his career. Noah would be a good get for the Knicks, except I don't see him leaving the Bulls. He offers defense, intensity, rim protection, smart passing, just enough offense to keep people honest and locker room leadership.

And while I think he'd have limited utility as a rotational player, trying to get Chuck Hayes on a very small veterans contract would also be a good boon for the Knicks from a locker room standpoint. The Chuckwagon gives everything he has all the time. He plays every game like it's his last.

Both those guys I think fit the NY mold. They are both smart enough to know their limitations and stay within them. They are soldiers and know they are soldiers and when they walk onto the floor, other teams know they are in for a straight up fight. Win or lose, I'd be proud to have two competitors like that on the roster.

The Wire may be my favorite show of all time (Shameless is close but quite different :-))

Noah is my favorite player in the game.

I specifically remember when there was a piece done on building the perfect QB:

Arm: Marino
Legs: Cunningham
Brain: Joe Montana
Intangibles: Elway
Heart: Simms

Noah in many ways reminds me of Phil Simms in that way.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Answer Not What Kinda Player You Want, Answer What Kinda Player Uncle Phil Wants

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