Wonder if anyone catches the contradiction

The early points hit home

The Mavs and Cavs trades were awful like really really awful

Phil Jackson stood in front of the world a week ago and took the blame for the Knicks’ predicament on his shoulders, admitting that he had bungled the building of the roster that had stumbled to a 5-36 record.

As hard as it may have been for Jackson, who has crafted an image tethered to the mystique of the triangle offense and the tangible clang of 11 championship rings, to admit he was wrong, that was the easy part. Tearing down a roster is far easier than building it up.

Jackson has pared problems and talent from the Knicks roster, but done it with a clumsy chainsaw rather than a surgeon’s scalpel. To get rid of Raymond Felton he paired him with one of the few valuable assets, Tyson Chandler. To shed J.R. Smith’s $6.4 million player option for next season he gave up Iman Shumpert and got nothing back but a 2019 second-round pick and salary cap exceptions.

What he is left with now is not only a roster that has prompted the networks to dump one of their nationally televised games after another, but a 16-game losing streak and a team at the halfway mark of the season that is challenging the 1972-73 Philadelphia 76ers record of 9-73, the worst mark in NBA history. And it’s not just the losses, but how they are losing — with a group of marginally talented, lackadaisical players who aren’t even keeping it close anymore. A 45-point deficit to Charlotte hours after Jackson spoke may have been the worst, but they’ve been down by double figures in the past 15 games and have trailed by at least 30 in four games, an unlikeable and unwatchable mess.

Among Jackson’s parting shots Saturday were an admission that the deep pockets of James Dolan and Cablevision weren’t enough to fix the problems and that he was ready to do the job he was brought here to do. But in his first year as Knicks’ president he has quickly learned the job is not as easy as handing the ball to Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.

These are new lessons for Jackson, who has seen reality slap him in the face. The job may be harder than he thought and maybe it is harder than he can even imagine now. We reached out to a front office official from another NBA team, a pro scout and an agent to seek out unbiased — OK, outside — opinions.

Their take? There is blame to go around. The roster is an ill-fitting disaster. While Jackson tried to take the pressure off of coach Derek Fisher, the scout pointed out, “I think Derek is responsible. They don’t guard at all. You can be competitive with a bad team.” No one is unscathed at 5-36.

What Went Wrong?

Jackson inherited a team that won 37 games — and many pieces of the 54-win team of two years ago — and his first move was to decide what to do with the star free agent, Carmelo Anthony. Rather than bottom out after firing coach Mike Woodson, Jackson blinked and handed Anthony a five-year, $124 million deal to be the centerpiece of the organization — with a no-trade clause. He then tagged his next best asset, Chandler, into a deal to unload Felton.

“Phil is right — this is his fault,” said a scout. “He took this job like, ‘I’m here, everything will be great.’ And then he gave away the assets he had.”

Jackson stripped down the roster and gathered precious few assets in return. That leaves the Knicks with a roster that has very few pieces any other franchise would want.

“The value of these guys were decimated after what’s happening,” said a front office executive. “All the assets value was not there, not working, so he cleaned out. I know it’s easier to get rid of people. The next part is the hardest part, getting good players to come forward. This is a process and it’s not happening overnight.”

One of the observers said that Calderon is the only keeper on the roster, not because he’s played well — he hasn’t — since coming over in the Chandler trade, but dealing away one of the few professionals left on the roster just opens another hole.

“His money is not crazy,” the executive said. “It’s a decent, fair contract and you can say, ‘I have my point guard,’ and address other positions because every one other than Carmelo is a problem.”

The Path Forward

The faith in Phil is what the Knicks ownership and fans are clinging to and he is armed with more than $30 million in salary cap space this summer as well as a first round draft pick that figures to be in the top four spots. But as one of the subjects said, “I was talking to a general manager from another team and he said, ‘Are you going to trust the guys who put that roster together to make the draft pick and pick the free agents?’”

There was unanimous agreement that the Knicks roster is barren after Anthony. One marveled at how Hardaway Jr. has struggled and the scout pegged Calderon as ideally a backup on a good team. Quincy Acy and Travis Wear at least drew some shrugs that they could possibly be a bench player on an improved team and Lance Thomas, with a 10-day contract, was pointed to as the type of blue-collar bench player they could use.

There was one more unanimous agreement — that the team should just waive Andrea Bargnani. “Get him out of the locker room, off the team,” the front office official said, casting doubt on whether Bargnani will even be able to get a veteran minimum deal on another team.

The Knicks right now are on track for the most ping-pong balls in the draft lottery — and if Anthony opts for surgery they aren’t about to get better. So will Duke center Jahlil Okafor solve the problems? Kentucky’s Karl Towns? Emmanuel Mudiay, who opted to play in China rather than in college?

As tempting as it is to grab for the brass ring, one of the officials suggested trading down if they get one of the top picks to get more talent because there are so few pieces in place to build with. But the Knicks, in need of something for fans to cling to, are unlikely to do that, and as the scout noted, this is not expected to be a deep draft.

Free agency presents a similar dilemma. There are several free agents that the Knicks and their fans can dream about, but landing a Marc Gasol or LaMarcus Aldridge is a long shot. The agent — as much as agents enjoy it — cautioned that the Knicks need to avoid overpaying for second-tier talent: “They can’t do what they always do — get tied up in deals you don’t want.”

The scout agreed, noting, “If they were to get Gasol, all right, then you have ’Melo, Gasol and the rest of those misfits. You’re better, but you’re not there. Keep your cap room available. Don’t overspend on a mediocre player and fill in the holes.”

The Bargnani snipit is so pure and full of win

Spot on about trading down I was one of the first to mention this

As a real plan B because we never really had a plan A

Spot on about overpaying a "SHOWING OUT STIFF" in Monroe

Or "I'M PLAYING FOR MY NEXT CONTRACT SO HARD" Jackson

Good to see them not mention passing on Crack Baby was a monumental error

Maybe the only thing Phil got right this year

F500ONE wrote:Interesting what was said about Calderon below

Wonder if anyone catches the contradiction

The early points hit home

The Mavs and Cavs trades were awful like really really awful

Phil Jackson stood in front of the world a week ago and took the blame for the Knicks’ predicament on his shoulders, admitting that he had bungled the building of the roster that had stumbled to a 5-36 record.

As hard as it may have been for Jackson, who has crafted an image tethered to the mystique of the triangle offense and the tangible clang of 11 championship rings, to admit he was wrong, that was the easy part. Tearing down a roster is far easier than building it up.

Jackson has pared problems and talent from the Knicks roster, but done it with a clumsy chainsaw rather than a surgeon’s scalpel. To get rid of Raymond Felton he paired him with one of the few valuable assets, Tyson Chandler. To shed J.R. Smith’s $6.4 million player option for next season he gave up Iman Shumpert and got nothing back but a 2019 second-round pick and salary cap exceptions.

What he is left with now is not only a roster that has prompted the networks to dump one of their nationally televised games after another, but a 16-game losing streak and a team at the halfway mark of the season that is challenging the 1972-73 Philadelphia 76ers record of 9-73, the worst mark in NBA history. And it’s not just the losses, but how they are losing — with a group of marginally talented, lackadaisical players who aren’t even keeping it close anymore. A 45-point deficit to Charlotte hours after Jackson spoke may have been the worst, but they’ve been down by double figures in the past 15 games and have trailed by at least 30 in four games, an unlikeable and unwatchable mess.

Among Jackson’s parting shots Saturday were an admission that the deep pockets of James Dolan and Cablevision weren’t enough to fix the problems and that he was ready to do the job he was brought here to do. But in his first year as Knicks’ president he has quickly learned the job is not as easy as handing the ball to Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant.

These are new lessons for Jackson, who has seen reality slap him in the face. The job may be harder than he thought and maybe it is harder than he can even imagine now. We reached out to a front office official from another NBA team, a pro scout and an agent to seek out unbiased — OK, outside — opinions.

Their take? There is blame to go around. The roster is an ill-fitting disaster. While Jackson tried to take the pressure off of coach Derek Fisher, the scout pointed out, “I think Derek is responsible. They don’t guard at all. You can be competitive with a bad team.” No one is unscathed at 5-36.

What Went Wrong?

Jackson inherited a team that won 37 games — and many pieces of the 54-win team of two years ago — and his first move was to decide what to do with the star free agent, Carmelo Anthony. Rather than bottom out after firing coach Mike Woodson, Jackson blinked and handed Anthony a five-year, $124 million deal to be the centerpiece of the organization — with a no-trade clause. He then tagged his next best asset, Chandler, into a deal to unload Felton.

“Phil is right — this is his fault,” said a scout. “He took this job like, ‘I’m here, everything will be great.’ And then he gave away the assets he had.”

Jackson stripped down the roster and gathered precious few assets in return. That leaves the Knicks with a roster that has very few pieces any other franchise would want.

“The value of these guys were decimated after what’s happening,” said a front office executive. “All the assets value was not there, not working, so he cleaned out. I know it’s easier to get rid of people. The next part is the hardest part, getting good players to come forward. This is a process and it’s not happening overnight.”

One of the observers said that Calderon is the only keeper on the roster, not because he’s played well — he hasn’t — since coming over in the Chandler trade, but dealing away one of the few professionals left on the roster just opens another hole.

“His money is not crazy,” the executive said. “It’s a decent, fair contract and you can say, ‘I have my point guard,’ and address other positions because every one other than Carmelo is a problem.”

The Path Forward

The faith in Phil is what the Knicks ownership and fans are clinging to and he is armed with more than $30 million in salary cap space this summer as well as a first round draft pick that figures to be in the top four spots. But as one of the subjects said, “I was talking to a general manager from another team and he said, ‘Are you going to trust the guys who put that roster together to make the draft pick and pick the free agents?’”

There was unanimous agreement that the Knicks roster is barren after Anthony. One marveled at how Hardaway Jr. has struggled and the scout pegged Calderon as ideally a backup on a good team. Quincy Acy and Travis Wear at least drew some shrugs that they could possibly be a bench player on an improved team and Lance Thomas, with a 10-day contract, was pointed to as the type of blue-collar bench player they could use.

There was one more unanimous agreement — that the team should just waive Andrea Bargnani. “Get him out of the locker room, off the team,” the front office official said, casting doubt on whether Bargnani will even be able to get a veteran minimum deal on another team.

The Knicks right now are on track for the most ping-pong balls in the draft lottery — and if Anthony opts for surgery they aren’t about to get better. So will Duke center Jahlil Okafor solve the problems? Kentucky’s Karl Towns? Emmanuel Mudiay, who opted to play in China rather than in college?

As tempting as it is to grab for the brass ring, one of the officials suggested trading down if they get one of the top picks to get more talent because there are so few pieces in place to build with. But the Knicks, in need of something for fans to cling to, are unlikely to do that, and as the scout noted, this is not expected to be a deep draft.

Free agency presents a similar dilemma. There are several free agents that the Knicks and their fans can dream about, but landing a Marc Gasol or LaMarcus Aldridge is a long shot. The agent — as much as agents enjoy it — cautioned that the Knicks need to avoid overpaying for second-tier talent: “They can’t do what they always do — get tied up in deals you don’t want.”

The scout agreed, noting, “If they were to get Gasol, all right, then you have ’Melo, Gasol and the rest of those misfits. You’re better, but you’re not there. Keep your cap room available. Don’t overspend on a mediocre player and fill in the holes.”

The Bargnani snipit is so pure and full of win

Spot on about trading down I was one of the first to mention this

As a real plan B because we never really had a plan A

Spot on about overpaying a "SHOWING OUT STIFF" in Monroe

Or "I'M PLAYING FOR MY NEXT CONTRACT SO HARD" Jackson

Good to see them not mention passing on Crack Baby was a monumental error

Maybe the only thing Phil got right this year

everything stems from his first "move." note that this tidbit comes under the part titled "what went wrong?" how do you seriously pursue "culture change" and retain this kind of employee with this kind of contract? seriously. this was a classic moment of disassociation on a collective scale, ie the other employees and the fanbase. the 5-36 record, this disaster of a season, is the result. the knicks can expect to have a nightmarish future.

this whole situation-- easily preventable-- screams bad karma and diminished opportunities and potentials.

dk7th wrote:everything stems from his first "move." note that this tidbit comes under the part titled "what went wrong?" how do you seriously pursue "culture change" and retain this kind of employee with this kind of contract? seriously. this was a classic moment of disassociation on a collective scale, ie the other employees and the fanbase. the 5-36 record, this disaster of a season, is the result. the knicks can expect to have a nightmarish future.

this whole situation-- easily preventable-- screams bad karma and diminished opportunities and potentials.

You know how you said "What has been said can't be unsaid", well the contract Phil signed Melo to can't be unsigned. I'm interested in how Phil can get himself out of the Abyss. You'd think they would have talked up the Early and Thanasis as being great ROI from trade with Dallas. I'll wait on the Calderon catch. Phil's recovery starts with acquiring picks by the deadline if he doesn't, then he's pretty much toast. Even if all get gets are 2nd rounders.

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

A lot of mediocre players become great coaches. Fisher certainly appeared to have the pedigree to be successful. He has been a part of teams that won championships. He is a good communicator and has been in a leadership role in the past. How different would things be if Kerr were in Ny? How different would things be in Golden State if Fish was there? Also, was Kerr more than a mediocre player?

VCoug wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Phil biggest mistake this season was the 5 year contract he offered Fisher. You can always trade a player; but when it comes to a coach, if you fire him, you have to eat his contract. As terrible as this dude is, we have no choice but to keep him around for at least another season.

It's pretty funny that we took a just retired player and made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. Personally, I would have gone after Shaka Smart or Fred Hoiberg but, OMG, neither one runs the triangle.

Hoiberg! My top choice.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

So "tanking and drafting" counts as a direction for us but not for Philly? Regarding "trading drafted players," I don't think any team does that more than us.

Not to mention that Plan A was a complete, unmitigated disaster. Phil's tinkering that was supposed to make this a playoff team turned a 37-win team into a team on pace to win 10 games.

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

So "tanking and drafting" counts as a direction for us but not for Philly? Regarding "trading drafted players," I don't think any team does that more than us.

Not to mention that Plan A was a complete, unmitigated disaster. Phil's tinkering that was supposed to make this a playoff team turned a 37-win team into a team on pace to win 10 games.

Yeah, "Plan B" isn't really a plan. It's the league's safety net for teams that completely screw up

and plan C will be to fire their coach.

How long do you think Fisher lasts?

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:The problem I have with this and many other similar articles is the pessimistic tone.

The problem, nixluva, that you seem to ignore, even when it's shoved right in your face, is that this team and franchise needs a direction.

Philly has a direction. Tank and keep taking, amass assets, try to push forward their young talent and then try to get them to gel together while still on their rookie deals. Will it work? Will it not? Either way, it's a direction, the entire franchise is moving in the same direction from top to bottom. At least Philly fans can say they can see a plan in place that makes sense from a timetable and asset standpoint and how the league is structured in terms of the draft and free agency.

New York has NO DIRECTION. Tanking and rebuilding from the ground up is one thing. Trying to make a playoff push is another. Picking neither or picking one then ending up with the other by coincidence is not a plan. Melo makes this a treadmill team. The Chandler trade, even if it worked, would have made this a treadmill team. A team stuck on the fringes of that 8th playoff spot or that dreaded 9th spot with no real chance to get better.

You call people too negative but this is clearly a negative situation. Not making a choice is making a choice, often it's worse than picking Direction A or Direction B. At least in one of those cases, you have momentum and a trajectory and something to sell to your fans.

Tanking because your effort to make a push blew up in your face is not a sign of an organization that has a cohesive plan in place.

Nothing you conjure up fixes the timetable vs development vs assets problem nixluva. In order to build a roster around Melo, you need to use the draft. With no 2016 pick, and with picks actually needing time to develop, your "help" for Melo will arrive, if at all, when his contract ends and when he's out of what's left of his prime playing ability/years. Every other instance of getting him help on this spiraling franchise will likely mean a free agent overpay, which will doom the roster to the same kind of problems it's had for the last 15 years. Do you think the Dallas Cowboys really wanted to trade their only marketable and franchise player in Herschel Walker? They did it because of the assets vs development vs timetable issue.

You want to put a "label" on a type of tone? Well here it is son. You ignore things you don't want to hear or don't like. You don't fully understand the way the cap works or even consider what other people have to say unless it lines up to your viewpoint. You don't own any of the things you've said before previously. Then you talk down to everyone like they are stupid because they remember your needling hack job predictions. Then you blame everyone else when they have the audacity to have opinions of their own. I know an entire group of our population who act just like you. They are called women. The problem you have is you are in a room full of men, who think like men, and you act like a woman.

We have direction. Plan A: tinker with the roster and try to make the playoffs, then try to recruit a top FA like Gasol. Didn't work out so we're onto Plan B (clear salary, tank for a top pick, build in piece meal fashion). Use the remains of this system to see which players can play the triangle and be our bench for next year. Is that really hard to understand? Sixers have no direction- they tank, draft, then want to trade the players they just drafted, so they can tank more and draft. That ain't direction.

and higher a mediocre player as a mediocre coach

So "tanking and drafting" counts as a direction for us but not for Philly? Regarding "trading drafted players," I don't think any team does that more than us.

Not to mention that Plan A was a complete, unmitigated disaster. Phil's tinkering that was supposed to make this a playoff team turned a 37-win team into a team on pace to win 10 games.

Yeah, "Plan B" isn't really a plan. It's the league's safety net for teams that completely screw up

and plan C will be to fire their coach.

How long do you think Fisher lasts?

I think we're still really terrible next season and Fisher's gone by the Summer of 2016.