Bonn1997 wrote:I don't get it either. You'd think anyone associated with the NBA would know by now that that's the worst shot you can take.
Do you have a link to where you got this stat from? I'd like to see the #s for all the teams and how they correspond to the team's total scoring.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015.html

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I don't get it either. You'd think anyone associated with the NBA would know by now that that's the worst shot you can take.
Do you have a link to where you got this stat from? I'd like to see the #s for all the teams and how they correspond to the team's total scoring.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015.html

Wow, that's really discouraging.
I hope Nixluva can justify this system's shot selection for us

well ... he knows for a fact that Phil is against every single one of those shots.

And, he did not even sign Jason Smith. He is here without permission as a walk on.

fishmike wrote:its tough to establsih a style of play right now. The shot selection sucks. Ill reserve final judgement on the system until next year. While Phil may say he's not targeting tier 1 guys thats fine, but pretty much every player will picked by him (including Melo) so we should get a better look at the system then.

Jason Smith is bad, but he's a stop gap warm body and he can shoot. Low cost take a look. NOthing to see here, so lets move on.

he did not bring Jason Smith in as a stop gap. He brought him in because he thought that he would be triangular and he's not. He stinks beyond comprehension. Another ZenSaster.

Its fair to give Phil another season to see what he can do to reverse this ship but we can also all agree that saying that it was a rocky start is like saying that Rosanne was a little overweight.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:its tough to establsih a style of play right now. The shot selection sucks. Ill reserve final judgement on the system until next year. While Phil may say he's not targeting tier 1 guys thats fine, but pretty much every player will picked by him (including Melo) so we should get a better look at the system then.

Jason Smith is bad, but he's a stop gap warm body and he can shoot. Low cost take a look. NOthing to see here, so lets move on.

he did not bring Jason Smith in as a stop gap. He brought him in because he thought that he would be triangular and he's not. He stinks beyond comprehension. Another ZenSaster.

Its fair to give Phil another season to see what he can do to reverse this ship but we can also all agree that saying that it was a rocky start is like saying that Rosanne was a little overweight.

The Knicks terrible start is partially what gives me hope. No save the season starphuck trades. See it for what it is and tear it down.

There was a legit upside (albeit in hindsight not likely) to this roster this year. You had some guys coming back from injuries in contract years who may have played their asses off to get their next contracts (Amare, Bargs, Shump, JR (opt out), Jason Smith, Dalembert). However when it quickly became clear that this was a non-starter Phil did was no other GM in any NY sports has done in recent years which is tear it down. That tells me a lot of gives me some hope.

I have no problems with a GM making mistakes. None of them are perfect. In the past our GMs followed mistakes with BIGGER mistakes. Phil has done the opposite.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:its tough to establsih a style of play right now. The shot selection sucks. Ill reserve final judgement on the system until next year. While Phil may say he's not targeting tier 1 guys thats fine, but pretty much every player will picked by him (including Melo) so we should get a better look at the system then.

Jason Smith is bad, but he's a stop gap warm body and he can shoot. Low cost take a look. NOthing to see here, so lets move on.

he did not bring Jason Smith in as a stop gap. He brought him in because he thought that he would be triangular and he's not. He stinks beyond comprehension. Another ZenSaster.

Its fair to give Phil another season to see what he can do to reverse this ship but we can also all agree that saying that it was a rocky start is like saying that Rosanne was a little overweight.

One year deal at $4mm... if thats not stop gap what is?

The Knicks terrible start is partially what gives me hope. No save the season starphuck trades. See it for what it is and tear it down.

There was a legit upside (albeit in hindsight not likely) to this roster this year. You had some guys coming back from injuries in contract years who may have played their asses off to get their next contracts (Amare, Bargs, Shump, JR (opt out), Jason Smith, Dalembert). However when it quickly became clear that this was a non-starter Phil did was no other GM in any NY sports has done in recent years which is tear it down. That tells me a lot of gives me some hope.

I have no problems with a GM making mistakes. None of them are perfect. In the past our GMs followed mistakes with BIGGER mistakes. Phil has done the opposite.

lets see how he recovers from his initial mistakes.

at least he has not made any starphuchs yet.

Im in a wait and see mode, but he's on my good side for tearing it down and not trying to salvage what is clearly a lousy team.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:its tough to establsih a style of play right now. The shot selection sucks. Ill reserve final judgement on the system until next year. While Phil may say he's not targeting tier 1 guys thats fine, but pretty much every player will picked by him (including Melo) so we should get a better look at the system then.

Jason Smith is bad, but he's a stop gap warm body and he can shoot. Low cost take a look. NOthing to see here, so lets move on.

he did not bring Jason Smith in as a stop gap. He brought him in because he thought that he would be triangular and he's not. He stinks beyond comprehension. Another ZenSaster.

Its fair to give Phil another season to see what he can do to reverse this ship but we can also all agree that saying that it was a rocky start is like saying that Rosanne was a little overweight.

One year deal at $4mm... if thats not stop gap what is?

The Knicks terrible start is partially what gives me hope. No save the season starphuck trades. See it for what it is and tear it down.

There was a legit upside (albeit in hindsight not likely) to this roster this year. You had some guys coming back from injuries in contract years who may have played their asses off to get their next contracts (Amare, Bargs, Shump, JR (opt out), Jason Smith, Dalembert). However when it quickly became clear that this was a non-starter Phil did was no other GM in any NY sports has done in recent years which is tear it down. That tells me a lot of gives me some hope.

I have no problems with a GM making mistakes. None of them are perfect. In the past our GMs followed mistakes with BIGGER mistakes. Phil has done the opposite.

lets see how he recovers from his initial mistakes.

at least he has not made any starphuchs yet.

agree... and his mistakes? Lets leave debating resiging Melo out of the discussion for content purposes, but his other deals were low impact. In the past our mistakes cost us for years and draft picks that turned into Aldridge. Dumping Calderon or Jason Smith being garbage are managable mistake fixes.

Im in a wait and see mode, but he's on my good side for tearing it down and not trying to salvage what is clearly a lousy team.

mistakes:

1. turning a bad team into the most horrendous team possible (it was not intentional)
2. nixing trades last year (Collison, Teague, Lowry)
3. Tyson trade value / not trading him the year before / taking back Calderon (if they can't dump him)
4. Melo's contract (not sure if he had any options here, I believe that this was not his decision)
5. Jason Stiff (stop gaps should be better than the worst player in the league, we could have used any dleague player for this.)
6. Fisher (terrible terrible terrible signing ... though the time will tell)
7. Holding onto Shump and THJ and sucking out all their value
8. making us a very undesirable place for FA's

I see your points and they may be spot on or they may be farts in the wind. Its premature. Obviously saying we are taking 1 step back to take 2 steps forward is hope. I acknowledge that... but the man does have some knowledge and skills he's bringing to the table. He's got some kind of vision. He gets the same chances the others got to reap that.

Im still impressed by the tear down. Have we heard a peep from Dolan?

When Phil trades pic #2 for Derrick Rose Ill eat my shoe BEFORE I put my foot in my mouth. Really hoping none of those types of things happen

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:its tough to establsih a style of play right now. The shot selection sucks. Ill reserve final judgement on the system until next year. While Phil may say he's not targeting tier 1 guys thats fine, but pretty much every player will picked by him (including Melo) so we should get a better look at the system then.

Jason Smith is bad, but he's a stop gap warm body and he can shoot. Low cost take a look. NOthing to see here, so lets move on.

he did not bring Jason Smith in as a stop gap. He brought him in because he thought that he would be triangular and he's not. He stinks beyond comprehension. Another ZenSaster.

Its fair to give Phil another season to see what he can do to reverse this ship but we can also all agree that saying that it was a rocky start is like saying that Rosanne was a little overweight.

One year deal at $4mm... if thats not stop gap what is?

The Knicks terrible start is partially what gives me hope. No save the season starphuck trades. See it for what it is and tear it down.

There was a legit upside (albeit in hindsight not likely) to this roster this year. You had some guys coming back from injuries in contract years who may have played their asses off to get their next contracts (Amare, Bargs, Shump, JR (opt out), Jason Smith, Dalembert). However when it quickly became clear that this was a non-starter Phil did was no other GM in any NY sports has done in recent years which is tear it down. That tells me a lot of gives me some hope.

I have no problems with a GM making mistakes. None of them are perfect. In the past our GMs followed mistakes with BIGGER mistakes. Phil has done the opposite.

lets see how he recovers from his initial mistakes.

at least he has not made any starphuchs yet.

agree... and his mistakes? Lets leave debating resiging Melo out of the discussion for content purposes, but his other deals were low impact. In the past our mistakes cost us for years and draft picks that turned into Aldridge. Dumping Calderon or Jason Smith being garbage are managable mistake fixes.

Im in a wait and see mode, but he's on my good side for tearing it down and not trying to salvage what is clearly a lousy team.

mistakes:

1. turning a bad team into the most horrendous team possible (it was not intentional)
2. nixing trades last year (Collison, Teague, Lowry)
3. Tyson trade value / not trading him the year before / taking back Calderon (if they can't dump him)
4. Melo's contract (not sure if he had any options here, I believe that this was not his decision)
5. Jason Stiff (stop gaps should be better than the worst player in the league, we could have used any dleague player for this.)
6. Fisher (terrible terrible terrible signing ... though the time will tell)
7. Holding onto Shump and THJ and sucking out all their value
8. making us a very undesirable place for FA's

you have some redundancy there..
1 is more like a title of the recap
2 if true is very fair, but its hard to hold him accountable when he was not signed on.
3 I agree, but also dependant on the other pieces. If Acy and Early are rotation guys on a decent team (far fetched at this point but not impossible) this is a more balanced trade
4 pass
5 bad player, bad fit. No arguement, but its a 1 year deal
6 He was open about his reasons and when a guy who won 11 rings says he purposely wanted a rookie coach to mold you have to give him time no?
7 Shump got hurt (again) and he saw THjr as a piece moving forward. Its just not working out. He wasnt a lottery pick
8 ToBeDetermined

I see your points and they may be spot on or they may be farts in the wind. Its premature. Obviously saying we are taking 1 step back to take 2 steps forward is hope. I acknowledge that... but the man does have some knowledge and skills he's bringing to the table. He's got some kind of vision. He gets the same chances the others got to reap that.

Im still impressed by the tear down. Have we heard a peep from Dolan?

When Phil trades pic #2 for Derrick Rose Ill eat my shoe BEFORE I put my foot in my mouth. Really hoping none of those types of things happen

Phil does deserve that we don't finalize judgement yet based on his pedigree. He may need some adjustment being a rookie GM.

I wish I could sit down and talk to him and ask him what he is thinking. He prolly won't agree to it though LOL.