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Chris Herring at the wall St journal....
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Nalod
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1/14/2015  10:48 AM
The other day I mentioned we have had 8 coaches in 15 years, and 7 GM's.
I was also trying to expand on "culture".
I realize we as fans are about "what about trading X for X", or "OMG, Who are we going to sign!!!"
Clearly we are products instant gradificaton and fear of an uncertain process.
Nalod been saying this might take a few years. I don't articulate as well as the pro's, but here is a good article I agree with most of it........

With the Knicks on pace to shatter the franchise record for losses in a season, many fans—even some within the organization—have turned their attention to May’s NBA draft lottery and the Knicks’ chances of winning the top overall pick.

Nabbing the nation’s best collegiate player (widely believed to be Duke center Jahlil Okafor) would certainly help the Knicks repair the roster. But regardless of where and who they end up picking, the Knicks are going to have to get much better at developing young talent if they intend to build long-term success as a franchise.

“The reality is that [bottoming out] is probably the best way to go about the business,” team president Phil Jackson acknowledged over the weekend. “To begin and to restart it, and to do it the right way. To put it together in a way that really makes sense instead of bringing dominant people in to try and fit it into a jigsaw puzzle that makes it pretty difficult. So we hope we’re on the right track, even though this isn’t the track we anticipated.”

The Knicks should have roughly $30 million in salary-cap space to spend on free agents this summer, but the fate of their first draft pick may be more integral to the track Jackson is referring to. Bringing along a potential star would mark a major shift for a franchise that isn’t known for patience or continuity.

“The Knicks have always had the money to spend. But because they saw that as their advantage, it might have also become a reason to put off being patient with a rebuild,” said John Nash, a former general manager for the Nets, 76ers and Washington Bullets. “They may have felt they didn’t have the time to truly develop young players.”


The Knicks have been a revolving door in recent years, with an NBA-high 87 players suiting up since the beginning of the 2008-09 season, according to Stats LLC. But they haven’t had a top-five pick since 1986, when they took Kenny “Sky” Walker at No. 5, and they haven’t re-signed any first-round picks to multiyear deals since Charlie Ward, whom they drafted in 1994.

The problem isn’t poor drafting. In fact, the Knicks have had three first-team All-Rookie selections—Landry Fields in 2011, Iman Shumpert in 2012 and Tim Hardaway Jr. in 2014—in the past four years, more than any other team during that span. The problem is that those players have all regressed offensively in their second full seasons. You have to go back seven years, to Danilo Gallinari, to find the last Knicks draft pick who was better in his second full season than in his first.

Why can’t the Knicks develop their young talent? Before he was traded to Cleveland last week, J.R. Smith suggested the team lacked leaders who could help guide younger players.

“The difference between now and [the Knicks’ 54-win season in 2012] was that we had leaders at pretty much every position,” Smith said, citing veterans like Jason Kidd, Rasheed Wallace and Kurt Thomas. “It was a lot easier then, because they all had so much love for the game to where it didn’t even feel like they were teaching.”

The Knicks have always had the money to spend. But because they saw that as their advantage, it might have also become a reason to put off being patient with a rebuild.’
—John Nash.

It’s difficult to gauge how a particular athlete benefits from playing alongside a particular veteran. But when fans and analysts ponder the similarities between Shumpert and 25-year-old Chicago Bulls guard Jimmy Butler, for example, it’s hard to ignore one key difference: Butler had the good fortune to learn under Luol Deng, the talented, hardworking swingman who’s respected around the league. Hardaway, on the other hand, has played behind and learned under Shumpert and Smith, who, for all their talents, were maddeningly inconsistent.

Coaching also plays a major role in development, and with eight coaches since the 2001-02 season, the Knicks haven’t exactly been the most stable organization in that regard, either. Asked recently how he emphasizes player growth in New York, first-year coach Derek Fisher said he has stressed the importance of preparedness to Hardaway and his other young players.

“There are some base-level things you need to survive in this league,” Fisher said. “When practice is at 11, it’d be smart for you to get there by 9 or 9:30 to get some work in before practice and after practice to work at your craft. Those sorts of things matter for a young player.”

The importance of drafting, developing and retaining young talent can’t be overstated for Jackson and the Knicks, especially in today’s NBA, where the salary cap makes it difficult to stockpile free-agent stars. Most contending clubs have at least one homegrown contributor—think Klay Thompson in Golden State or Mike Conley in Memphis—allowing those teams more cap flexibility early in the players’ contracts.

For years now, the Knicks have gone against the grain by betting the farm on big names—Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler, Amar’e Stoudemire and Smith made $53.6 million combined last season, more than 91% of the salary cap—through trades and free agency. Whether the team can exercise the patience necessary to develop young players remains to be seen. Meanwhile, the one star they already have, the 30-year-old Anthony, isn’t getting any younger.

“This is testing my patience,” Anthony said recently. “I’m being tested for sure. But hopefully when I sit back years from now, I can look back on this time and tell myself, ‘We had to go through this to get to where we want to go.’ ”

Write to Chris Herring at chris.herring@wsj.com

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nixluva
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1/14/2015  11:52 AM
I think the Knicks are indeed making the right moves now. Phil came in and despite the disastrous season, he already has begun to try and change the approach of the team to rebuilding and developing players over time. The better use of the D League is a good thing. Phil brought in Larkin, Acy, Wear, Galloway and Thanasis. It's just a start and hopefully he increases the team's assets and can eventually get some draft picks. Obviously this year's draft will help.

I'm sure Phil will find a couple of vets who can contribute and also mentor the kids. The main thing is just simply finding better 2 way players who can contribute on both ends and have good BB IQ. We've had a dumb team for a while and need to change that. The higher the collective skill level and IQ the better IMO.

mreinman
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1/14/2015  11:54 AM
The knicks are not "indeed" making the right moves, they have so far made every WRONG move.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
jrodmc
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1/14/2015  11:59 AM
Great article.

We draft Kenbot Walker and Charlie Football, but "poor drafting isn't our problem." Don't mention Fred Weis, the two Johnny's [two first rounders, TWO!!], and any other in the long line of dog food we've picked. No, we should have developed and signed all those people to long term contracts. The draft is a once in a decade or two crapshoot for everyone, and it's been historically even worse for us than that. He's talking up his argument with Landry Fields! Seriously?

Yes, and of course we should have all the executive and managerial tolerance of franchises located in media and sports hotbeds like San Antonio, Texas. New York moves at a slightly different pace than your normal, nice college town, by the way. Not that the SanTone way of doing things ain't great. I happen to like the idea of winning a chip every 4 years or so for twenty years, but this is New York City. Light moves much faster here. Much less time and patience, and yes, lots more cash. I'm sure someone like Pop would last every moment of a NYC minute before he got his azz escorted out of here.

Funny, LA bet on big names, and won. Boston bet on big names and won. Miami, Dallas, etc etc. We getting any chips without Dave Debusschere, Pearl?

Yes, homegrown talent is nice. But it mostly makes for nice, warm stories nowadays, not chips. Linsanity-type things that flare up and disappear here.
More regurgitated tripe from the NYC media that also makes homerism akin to insipient insanity.

smackeddog
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1/14/2015  12:21 PM
His tweets have been hilarious this season- as the team got worse and worse, so did his attitude towards them!
Nalod
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1/14/2015  12:52 PM
Perhaps leading with stars then build around them hs not worked. As described in the article, in the modern era of the CBA we must build a core and develop players who can then SUPPORT a star player or two going forward!!!
Spurs did this with Splitter who is a very good player for them. It took a few years to develop him. not a high draft pick, he was stashed in Europe where he got his skills and then had to work in SAS to fit in!!! It was a process.

Picks and patience. Personally I like the others don't see a bright future BUT if there is to be a change it has to start with a change of thinking. NY fans are impatient. All fans are impatient!!!!!!!

We have our own Dleague team and they practice in the same facility as knicks. This is huge!!!! Not right away mind you but a player like Thanais was given a chance to go play abroad but instead was motivated enough to take a much lower pay scale and get in our system. Nothing to be excited about, but just one thing that never happend before!

We can harp all we want about the Bargs trade but its done and we can't undo it. Trading For Lowery might have worked but really our team would still be thin and yet another pick we would NOT have. I don't see this as would have made us a contender either.

I know some are not convinced PHil is the right man but the reality is this might take longer than 5 years and Dolan needed to bring in someone with extreme cred to change the culture. I think most of us would agree this team was in worse shape then we as fans thought.

Whose to blame? Maybe the better question is "Whats to blame?".

Ask me, Its the decision processes born from the post Checketts/Pre Phil culture that gave us the second worse record in the NBA in that time.

LivingLegend
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1/14/2015  1:01 PM
“This is testing my patience,” Anthony said recently. “I’m being tested for sure. But hopefully when I sit back years from now, I can look back on this time and tell myself, ‘We had to go through this to get to where we want to go.’ ”

This is the worst part of that entire article for me. Sick of listening to Melo whine about how he is being tested -- when he couldn't lead an ant to a picnic or a mouse to cheese.

Nalod
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1/14/2015  1:02 PM
jrodmc wrote:Great article.

We draft Kenbot Walker and Charlie Football, but "poor drafting isn't our problem." Don't mention Fred Weis, the two Johnny's [two first rounders, TWO!!], and any other in the long line of dog food we've picked. No, we should have developed and signed all those people to long term contracts. The draft is a once in a decade or two crapshoot for everyone, and it's been historically even worse for us than that. He's talking up his argument with Landry Fields! Seriously?

Yes, and of course we should have all the executive and managerial tolerance of franchises located in media and sports hotbeds like San Antonio, Texas. New York moves at a slightly different pace than your normal, nice college town, by the way. Not that the SanTone way of doing things ain't great. I happen to like the idea of winning a chip every 4 years or so for twenty years, but this is New York City. Light moves much faster here. Much less time and patience, and yes, lots more cash. I'm sure someone like Pop would last every moment of a NYC minute before he got his azz escorted out of here.

Funny, LA bet on big names, and won. Boston bet on big names and won. Miami, Dallas, etc etc. We getting any chips without Dave Debusschere, Pearl?

Yes, homegrown talent is nice. But it mostly makes for nice, warm stories nowadays, not chips. Linsanity-type things that flare up and disappear here.
More regurgitated tripe from the NYC media that also makes homerism akin to insipient insanity.


It would take a multi page anaylsis to really dig deep but you make some good good points on the surface. I think when you consider the lack of a top 5 pick it speaks volumes. We did draft Reezy and Dlee and basically gave them away for starphuchs. Dlee as a productive asset or as a trade chip was of far more value than what we got from AMare. Eddy for what turned to be Aldridge and Noah? Pippen (pick) for Gerald Henderson?

I think the tone of the article, and maybe my view is more MACRO than each Micro pick that worked or not. Every team has more draft failures then success. We have had more players in the last few years come thru than any other team. We as fans harp on Melo as our sole problem, or the trade, or the coach, or the GM but the BIG PICTURE is what adds up.

Sure phil like Buford has will make mistakes enroute but its the redundancy and scope of them that count. I hardly think that Jose is the signiture reason for our failure this year. But we have to have something to chew on!!!!!

Chris Herring at the wall St journal....

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