I do believe Isiah then, and Phil in the present have greater autonomy than the Gruns (Wald and Feld), Layden and Donnie. Checketts had it when Daddy Charles was still godfather of cablevision but when Jimmy got "made" he wanted it for himself. When Riles wanted it, Jimmy didn't give it.

Im just speculating here, but it makes sense. "Blame" for us being the second worse record in 14 years is in my opinion on Dolan presiding as owner and all that goes with it.

For those who don't believe in phil, believe that we are better with him than a GM Dolan will roll over on. Dolan can't hire those young stars unless he would give them power.

Phil is HIS STARPHUCH. Where Isiah was about collecting talent, we have to hope Phil is about basketball synergy. Isiah wanted to change the culture too but he was a piece of shyt himself. He had some good concepts about "Culture" but he was intoxicated with is stature and abused it. He was a winner on the court but off it we might judge him to be a not so. Phil might not be a saint, but he does not have the baggage that Isiah has collected in his life.

Phil's rings and larger than life presence is not just about being a big name to sell tickets, but when Phil hired Mckinsey Consulting (it was noted in the press) Im going to speculate that the process of him being involved in basketball operations was not a good idea and was presented in a manner that called for a change of structure. Gone was Grunny because Dolan would not give him the power needed. Evident of a team that gambles on McDycss and Amare. These were not one but two ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR MISTAKES!!! Rolling over Donnie was a bad idea. Chris Smith was a bad idea. Eddy was a bad ida. Too many dumb moves over a 15 year period that saw us employ eight GM's!!! (Grunfeld, Tapscott, Layden, Isiah, Donnie, Grunwald, Mills, and now Jax). Coaches? We are on our NINTH COACH!!!!!! JVG, Chaney, Wilkens, Herb, Larry, Isiah, MDA, Woodson and now Fish!

Who is to BLAME? Dolan. Ok. Maybe more important: WHAT IS TO BLAME? The process of making decisions. Change that, you change the result. We have been witness to insanity.

Many owners are very accessible and discuss their teams and whats going on. They are involved. They didn't get to where they were by letting others employ 100million dollar workers without them being part of the process.

So if Phil is anything less than savior, Gandolf, Moses or Budda himself at least he has the respect and autonomy of his owner whom he exceeds in basketball knowledge. Steve Mills has financial acumen to keep the numbers in check. One is a basketball mind, the other a financial mind. One can look at Dice or Amare as a basketball player with objectivity while the other looks at the numbers. Dolan was about selling a star to sell tickets. Layden had the marbury deal on his desk and Isiah pulled the string. Why? Dolan wanted it. Bring a NY "Hero" back home. Sound familiar? WE did this with Larry also. Larry could not walk away from that kind of money but it was stupid for him to take the position as it was to hire him with the roster we had.

No team since 2001 has lost more games than the knicks than Minnesota. That is the reality. For those who want that to change over nite I think that line of thinking is what got us in this mess. Its not fans thinking and they are not to blame, its the owner. It really does not matter who owns the team, it matters who is in charge. If he handed over the keys to Phil, then its the change we seek.

Someone had to strip this disaster down to the studs. Dolan was not capable.

Phil will make mistakes as do ALL GM's in hindsight. Even the great ones. But we are way early in this era.

Should fans get on board and not qustion what is taking place? Of course not. Just like most of us should not blindly love Phil and all his moves.

Naturally some love the attention and think they are smarter than most. Even the most supportive lover knows 5-32 is not good and the product is not good. WE can see it.
Some, like F500 will take a big dump in the room, then pull his pants up and point "see, I told you this place stinks"!!!!!

Many of us don't need hindsight brilliance and look to lay "BLAME" to place our disappointent an a face and convert it to anger. THats easy.

For me I'll just be happy that a big change has taken place and thats a start. Nobody in the reign of Dolan II has been empowered or brave enough to embark on a rebuild. OUr team was constructed to compete with Nets move to Brooklyn and the billion dollar renovation of the Garden. Basketball was not the main consideration.

MSG stock has more than Tripled in 4 years and knicks valuation is off the charts. The numbers are there. Dolan is winning. Time to build a team now.

Go knicks!!!!

I think there are some advantages to hitting rock bottom and cleaning the slate. I dont think FAs will be as scared. Some of the pressure to win now will be curber in favor of simple improvement and Knicks have some money to spend.

Phil knows people and has a proven record of managing some difficult to manage personalities and focusing their energy into elite production. My belief in Phil is that skill will better equip him to navigate this environment (Dolan) far better than his predecessors. His ability to discern talent will play out. The problem is there is a very small margin for error with this offseason but I think you have to give any new GM 2 years before you can really look at his body of work. Bad trades or wash trades can set up great moves. They can also fail and back fire.

It seems there is a plan and it starts with an enema.

Time will prove that this level of synchronicity in our organization will produce good fruits. We haven't had this level of chemistry within the organization in a LONG time. From Scouts to D League to Front Office to Coach it's a more focused organization with a more clear vision. This is what isn't really talked about. The changes in the organization with Phil at the top and one vision from top to bottom. In time this will bare fruit and it is something that can outlive Phil's tenure if they remain in this and bring up people in this system. We need patience to allow this all to mature and grow.

Knicks1969 wrote:I am just not certain that his choice as coach is the right one. So far, I am not impressed.

Understandable, but whats the alternative? A more ready coach that would have helped lead the team to 2 or 3 more wins so far? What's the upside in that? Fisher isn't a good coach now, but most would still agree he has great upside. Might as well just let him be a rookie coach and get all of this out of the way.

Knicks1969 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:I am just not certain that his choice as coach is the right one. So far, I am not impressed.

Understandable, but whats the alternative? A more ready coach that would have helped lead the team to 2 or 3 more wins so far? What's the upside in that? Fisher isn't a good coach now, but most would still agree he has great upside. Might as well just let him be a rookie coach and get all of this out of the way.

I am not saying fire the guy; but, if he chooses to resign, I would be happy.

Mark Jax would have sermoned brimstone and fire upon this sorry ass group and likely melted down by partying with JR!!!
Personally I'd rather get high and stare at Rianna's fine self than coach this team!!

TPercy wrote:He is doing somewhat okay but I just need to see more and how he does in the 2015 free agency, then I will decide to believe in him or not.

Your stuck on the starphuch and want to be wowed?
Im looking for incremental changes and a better product on the floor next year, and by this time (24months) we will have seen if this all comes together and what the potential is at that time.
Phil is still tearing this mutha a part.

What we are witnessing has not been done in 60 years! No guarantee's!!!! All we can ask is the sum of the pieces, including mistakes that all teams make, add up to someting greater.

The fact that he dumped JR and Shump for cap space and thus embracing the tank gives me some hope he might do a better job going forward. I honesty feel like I can't make a final decision until I see what happens after the draft and then 2015 summer free agency. If he screws that up then I'll give up all hope and go become a curling fan or something.

fishmike wrote:its a true tear down. Dolan has publicly said he's taken his hands out of the pot and left the kitchen all together. I wish the historical losing had a better draft class but time will tell on that.

I think there are some advantages to hitting rock bottom and cleaning the slate. I dont think FAs will be as scared. Some of the pressure to win now will be curber in favor of simple improvement and Knicks have some money to spend.

Phil knows people and has a proven record of managing some difficult to manage personalities and focusing their energy into elite production. My belief in Phil is that skill will better equip him to navigate this environment (Dolan) far better than his predecessors. His ability to discern talent will play out. The problem is there is a very small margin for error with this offseason but I think you have to give any new GM 2 years before you can really look at his body of work. Bad trades or wash trades can set up great moves. They can also fail and back fire.

It seems there is a plan and it starts with an enema.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:its a true tear down. Dolan has publicly said he's taken his hands out of the pot and left the kitchen all together. I wish the historical losing had a better draft class but time will tell on that.

I think there are some advantages to hitting rock bottom and cleaning the slate. I dont think FAs will be as scared. Some of the pressure to win now will be curber in favor of simple improvement and Knicks have some money to spend.

Phil knows people and has a proven record of managing some difficult to manage personalities and focusing their energy into elite production. My belief in Phil is that skill will better equip him to navigate this environment (Dolan) far better than his predecessors. His ability to discern talent will play out. The problem is there is a very small margin for error with this offseason but I think you have to give any new GM 2 years before you can really look at his body of work. Bad trades or wash trades can set up great moves. They can also fail and back fire.

It seems there is a plan and it starts with an enema.

It's a true tear down with a clean slate - except that more than half of our cap space next year will be taken up by the remnants from this .140 team

Not a true tear down, he took on Calderon's deal