He really is a softy in my opinion.
Pisses me off.

Uncle Phil knows he was inheriting a mess in The Garden of Good and Terrible.

Shutting down Melo goes against the company line of selling basketball to tourists.

Play defense sucka... and Hit the open man, Sayeth The Answer Man.

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Well if we are stuck with him than we better make sure he is healthy since he has 4 years and a lot of money left. Right now the most important thing is the lottery pick. Instead of trying to build around melo we need to try and build a team that function correctly and not around one guy. Hopefully we get okafor and then add a couple of good pieces in free agency.

Yes this is the new reality. Melo isn't the driving force of what this team is going to be about. Phil lost any chance he had at adding "win now" Free Agents this summer. He has to change the targets to younger players now because they would make more sense with a young top draft pick that we could add this year. We will have a mostly young roster at this point.

Damn, you're so desperate to spin a story. You once used lots of exclamation points to shout down those who said Melo wouldn't work and now you say "Melo isn't the driving force of what this team is going to be about".

I'd say you're a con man, but the only one you're fooling is yourself.

You're more like a public relations man from the 1950s.

Phil was thinking this team would make the playoffs in which case the draft pick would most likely not be an impact player. Now that calculus has changed as we have a chance at a young franchise type or at the least an impact player. If we add a top 3 pick the fans and the entire franchise will be about the future and less so the present and Melo. This may not have been the plan going into this year but it's the current reality.

Things have changed. Look who is going to be playing more and more the rest of the year. The young players. We will probably retain more of the young players that we have than we would have if this team was winning. We won't have only young players but IMO the ratio of young players to old will increase. It makes more sense for a young vet Free Agent to be targeted. A young vet who will makes more sense to play with the other young players we have. At that point this franchise is about the future and thus Melo isn't the driving force he once was.

Phil has to know that a young vet will be cheaper and thus make it more practical to be able to add more needed talent. It could be that Melo comes to realize that this team is going in a different direction than expected. One other thing Phil may come to realize is that going younger gives him time. Fans will understand that a younger team needs time and might lower expectations.

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Well if we are stuck with him than we better make sure he is healthy since he has 4 years and a lot of money left. Right now the most important thing is the lottery pick. Instead of trying to build around melo we need to try and build a team that function correctly and not around one guy. Hopefully we get okafor and then add a couple of good pieces in free agency.

Yes this is the new reality. Melo isn't the driving force of what this team is going to be about. Phil lost any chance he had at adding "win now" Free Agents this summer. He has to change the targets to younger players now because they would make more sense with a young top draft pick that we could add this year. We will have a mostly young roster at this point.

Damn, you're so desperate to spin a story. You once used lots of exclamation points to shout down those who said Melo wouldn't work and now you say "Melo isn't the driving force of what this team is going to be about".

I'd say you're a con man, but the only one you're fooling is yourself.

You're more like a public relations man from the 1950s.

You call it spin and I call it facing reality. This team was going to change this summer even if the team had made the playoffs as hoped, but Phil most likely was going to go after older "win now" players to pair will Melo. Now due to the poor season things have changed. Phil won't likely get those older vets to come on board a team that is much farther away from winning big than he hoped.

Phil was thinking this team would make the playoffs in which case the draft pick would most likely not be an impact player. Now that calculus has changed as we have a chance at a young franchise type or at the least an impact player. If we add a top 3 pick the fans and the entire franchise will be about the future and less so the present and Melo. This may not have been the plan going into this year but it's the current reality.

Things have changed. Look who is going to be playing more and more the rest of the year. The young players. We will probably retain more of the young players that we have than we would have if this team was winning. We won't have only young players but IMO the ratio of young players to old will increase. It makes more sense for a young vet Free Agent to be targeted. A young vet who will makes more sense to play with the other young players we have. At that point this franchise is about the future and thus Melo isn't the driving force he once was.

Phil has to know that a young vet will be cheaper and thus make it more practical to be able to add more needed talent. It could be that Melo comes to realize that this team is going in a different direction than expected. One other thing Phil may come to realize is that going younger gives him time. Fans will understand that a younger team needs time and might lower expectations.

You are exercising creative license and trying to spin gold out of lead. Not saying you shouldn't be the eternal optimist, but there are times to call a dead cow dead and there are times to say she may get better and give milk. I believe you're better off learning how to cut your losses on that which is a failure more quickly and to stop trying to massage every component into an imaginary perfect puzzle. Nothing works the way your mind thinks. Seriously, pay attention to the critics and incorporate some of their POV into your outlook and then we can talk about being realistic, something you have not been yet. May you find a balance.

The draft fantasies are now the latest opiate. Still, with #1 only a quarter of the balls go to us. Spending the next year harping on having Okafor is the new fantasy. When you combine probabilities in the lottery + probabilities that a # 1 being be a big star is not at all certain (no, Okafor is not a sure thing until he plays in the NBA) + the probabilities this dysfunctional franchise (now, more than ever) will still mess up, then your overall probabilities drop to below 10% this club will be turned around by a draft pick).

Saying a top #3 pick will now be the focus and not Melo is the tea and biscuits version of reality. You'd still have one of the highest ever paid players in history on the team, a me-first, stat-padding diva, notorious ball hog and non-facilitator. You think this guy is going to love and nurture the new toy in town? As long as Melo is on the team, it remains dysfunctional, ill-fitting and prone to dissension. You are suffering from a profound delusion that a team is now going to build around a giant roadblock at the core of the team.

$124 Million says Melo remains the "driving force" on the team as long as he is here. That's show business folks!

This debunks your whole new spin on this latest fantasy rebuild you're pitching. It's just rotten at the core, so snap out it! You're peddling a shiny new apple with a rotten core. It is just going to lead to more disappointment for you if you keep pretending the core issue doesn't have to be resolved. Melo needs to be traded or this team is fukked for the next five years. If you think otherwise, you just have not been absorbing reality.

You are now telling yourself and others that Melo will change. No he won't. Please wake up O Eternal Optimist. He won't. Listen. Melo will not change. Got it?

You and Briggs are engaged in building sand castles. You will not build crapola around Melo. Until you guys get this, you're like hamsters spinning in your wheels.

How about you two use your copious reservoirs of energy and commit it to the right thing? You guys saw how fan protests sent Dolan scrambling to buy a shiny new toy called Phil Jackson. Well, agitate. Organize petitions. Send Melo packing. March on MSG. You want a real team with a future? Then stop pretending you can polish a turd, stop pretending most fans will do anything, stop pretending fans will accept the five year rebuild process and do something with your energy.

Now that would be expressing your loyalty at its finest.

Supporting the evil empire seems to be wired into your DNA kiddo. It is possible that even with Melo gone and Okafor that the Knicks will stick suck as long as Dolan owns the team.

The uber problem is Dolan. He is the true malignancy. The symptom of disease is giving Melo a dumb contract. You may be able to remove Melo, but you probably cannot take Dolan out of the equation.

That's why you will always need massive luck with the franchise as long as its held by Dolan. At the very least, if you want to up your odds of capturing lightning in a bottle, get rid of Melo. Do something about that instead of constantly backpeddling and putting lipstick on a pig. I'd rather empower you to agitate for change than go down the path you keep taking out of respect for your evident desire for something good to happen. Embrace the truth and work with it. It is not the dark side. It is just reality.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Well if we are stuck with him than we better make sure he is healthy since he has 4 years and a lot of money left. Right now the most important thing is the lottery pick. Instead of trying to build around melo we need to try and build a team that function correctly and not around one guy. Hopefully we get okafor and then add a couple of good pieces in free agency.

Yes this is the new reality. Melo isn't the driving force of what this team is going to be about. Phil lost any chance he had at adding "win now" Free Agents this summer. He has to change the targets to younger players now because they would make more sense with a young top draft pick that we could add this year. We will have a mostly young roster at this point.

Damn, you're so desperate to spin a story. You once used lots of exclamation points to shout down those who said Melo wouldn't work and now you say "Melo isn't the driving force of what this team is going to be about".

I'd say you're a con man, but the only one you're fooling is yourself.

You're more like a public relations man from the 1950s.

You call it spin and I call it facing reality. This team was going to change this summer even if the team had made the playoffs as hoped, but Phil most likely was going to go after older "win now" players to pair will Melo. Now due to the poor season things have changed. Phil won't likely get those older vets to come on board a team that is much farther away from winning big than he hoped.

Phil was thinking this team would make the playoffs in which case the draft pick would most likely not be an impact player. Now that calculus has changed as we have a chance at a young franchise type or at the least an impact player. If we add a top 3 pick the fans and the entire franchise will be about the future and less so the present and Melo. This may not have been the plan going into this year but it's the current reality.

Things have changed. Look who is going to be playing more and more the rest of the year. The young players. We will probably retain more of the young players that we have than we would have if this team was winning. We won't have only young players but IMO the ratio of young players to old will increase. It makes more sense for a young vet Free Agent to be targeted. A young vet who will makes more sense to play with the other young players we have. At that point this franchise is about the future and thus Melo isn't the driving force he once was.

Phil has to know that a young vet will be cheaper and thus make it more practical to be able to add more needed talent. It could be that Melo comes to realize that this team is going in a different direction than expected. One other thing Phil may come to realize is that going younger gives him time. Fans will understand that a younger team needs time and might lower expectations.

I'll give you props for this post. it's rare to see you post using some form of realism...kudos there....perhaps there's hope for you after all.....lol.

One point I disagree with is the playoffs part. had the team made the playoffs, he certainly wouldnt gut the entire team as somebone obviously was contributing within the system worth keeping, so i doubt many changes would be made there. but in this season as it is, total changes need to be made, even to the point of asking Melo if he would endorse leaving. the team is at that point now.

There's no chance of a top pick being developed with a much older star stuck in their ways....the kid wont have a chance to go through his growing pains. melo already had an issue with this in Denver, he didnt like the direction they were going, which was getting younger. Thats why Detroit didnt draft melo, wouldnt be fair to him to be on the sideline watching.

If Phil is committed to a youth rebuild he has to trade Melo.

Agree 100% Good points on Denver and Detroit.

I expressed those same concerns about trying to properly develop quality young players despite Carmelo here
http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=48910&page=1