Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jamar Nelson, 2015 first-round and future second

Lost

- Rondo, Dwight Powell

_________________________

Dallas Acquired

Tyson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Rondo, Dwight Powell

Lost

- Samuel Dalembert, Jose Calderon, Wayne Ellington, Shane Larkin, and two 2014 second-round picks

- Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jamar Nelson, 2015 first-round and future second

_________________________

I'm thinking if Phil didn't trade Tyson to Dallas

Boston probably can't make a palatable deal with Dallas

Pretty positive Ainge would not have taken back Calderon's ugly contract

Now Dallas is out west so it didn't affect us directly[well maybe so they swept us this yr]

But looking at Boston, Ainge didn't take back

A ton of salary, he managed to get a 1st in this summer's draft

And he preserved cap space to work with for free agency

Ainge has been in rebuild mode since last summer

So his moves are clearly by design, Dallas

Has been trying to retool around Dirk since last summer by design

They manage to get 2 potential marquee free agents prior

To them hitting the market owning their Bird's Rights giving them the edge this summer retaining them

Both teams appear on course to accomplish an end goal

What was our design again

All of Phil's most important moves are ahead of him. Guys are judging him off the few moves he's made before his most important moves have been made! Boston is already further ahead in their total rebuild. But they don't have any players that you could come close to calling a franchise player. Even if Melo isn't a franchise player, he's better than anything the Celtics have. Now it's up to Phil to bring in core talent that we can build around. At the very LEAST Phil will likely be able to set 2-3 cornerstone players this year, between the draft and free agency. Right now it's easy to criticize since he hasn't made his moves yet. We can't know just how things are going to work out until Phil makes his next moves.

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:Doesn't really matter what Boston or Dallas are doing. The Knicks have to make the best use of the resources and options they have available to them. Very few GM's make all perfect moves. We can't expect perfection from Phil. As long as his ratio of good moves is higher than the ones that don't work out, that is going to be good for the franchise. Right now he hasn't done anything that would prevent us from improving the team. Fans may not agree with Phil's moves but right now Phil still has tons of options open to improve the roster.

All of Phil's most important moves are ahead of him. Guys are judging him off the few moves he's made before his most important moves have been made! Boston is already further ahead in their total rebuild. But they don't have any players that you could come close to calling a franchise player. Even if Melo isn't a franchise player, he's better than anything the Celtics have. Now it's up to Phil to bring in core talent that we can build around. At the very LEAST Phil will likely be able to set 2-3 cornerstone players this year, between the draft and free agency. Right now it's easy to criticize since he hasn't made his moves yet. We can't know just how things are going to work out until Phil makes his next moves.

Phil hardly has any moves to make beyond a lottery pick and some cap space. He inherited this mess but the reality is that he handicapped himself so early in his tenure by dealing the team's best trade asset (not named Melo) and by acquiring Jose Calderon's contract. Knowing that doesn't inspire confidence about his abilities moving forward.

You don't have a team until you have a solid core. If he can't put together a solid core with the draft pick and cap space he has then he would be a failure. There's simply no excuse for not coming out of this summer with 2 core pieces or more being added this year. With no special moves made this summer Phil will have $24 mil. If he get's lucky and JR opts out he'll have more money but in either case he should be able to spend the money wisely and put a better core together. He can't staff a team full of all stars, but being realistic he can change the core of the team.

F500ONE wrote:Boston Acquired

Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jamar Nelson, 2015 first-round and future second

Lost

- Rondo, Dwight Powell

_________________________

Dallas Acquired

Tyson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Rondo, Dwight Powell

Lost

- Samuel Dalembert, Jose Calderon, Wayne Ellington, Shane Larkin, and two 2014 second-round picks

- Brandan Wright, Jae Crowder, Jamar Nelson, 2015 first-round and future second

_________________________

I'm thinking if Phil didn't trade Tyson to Dallas

Boston probably can't make a palatable deal with Dallas

Pretty positive Ainge would not have taken back Calderon's ugly contract

Now Dallas is out west so it didn't affect us directly[well maybe so they swept us this yr]

But looking at Boston, Ainge didn't take back

A ton of salary, he managed to get a 1st in this summer's draft

And he preserved cap space to work with for free agency

Ainge has been in rebuild mode since last summer

So his moves are clearly by design, Dallas

Has been trying to retool around Dirk since last summer by design

They manage to get 2 potential marquee free agents prior

To them hitting the market owning their Bird's Rights giving them the edge this summer retaining them

Both teams appear on course to accomplish an end goal

What was our design again

did Phil Weaken Elizabeth Warrens leverage and forced to take a lessor Dodd Frank Bill?

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:Doesn't really matter what Boston or Dallas are doing. The Knicks have to make the best use of the resources and options they have available to them. Very few GM's make all perfect moves. We can't expect perfection from Phil. As long as his ratio of good moves is higher than the ones that don't work out, that is going to be good for the franchise. Right now he hasn't done anything that would prevent us from improving the team. Fans may not agree with Phil's moves but right now Phil still has tons of options open to improve the roster.

All of Phil's most important moves are ahead of him. Guys are judging him off the few moves he's made before his most important moves have been made! Boston is already further ahead in their total rebuild. But they don't have any players that you could come close to calling a franchise player. Even if Melo isn't a franchise player, he's better than anything the Celtics have. Now it's up to Phil to bring in core talent that we can build around. At the very LEAST Phil will likely be able to set 2-3 cornerstone players this year, between the draft and free agency. Right now it's easy to criticize since he hasn't made his moves yet. We can't know just how things are going to work out until Phil makes his next moves.

Phil hardly has any moves to make beyond a lottery pick and some cap space. He inherited this mess but the reality is that he handicapped himself so early in his tenure by dealing the team's best trade asset (not named Melo) and by acquiring Jose Calderon's contract. Knowing that doesn't inspire confidence about his abilities moving forward.

How does Calderon handicap Phil's ability to make deals or add Free Agents? I think it gets overstated just how much Phil will or won't be able to do. He DOES NOT have to fix every hole on the team this year. He has to get 2 cornerstone players if he can. A big and a guard is pretty much what he has to focus on at the very least this summer. Add one key asset in the draft and another in free agency. From there he's going to have to make smart signings or a trade that adds good role players.

You don't have a team until you have a solid core. If he can't put together a solid core with the draft pick and cap space he has then he would be a failure. There's simply no excuse for not coming out of this summer with 2 core pieces or more being added this year. With no special moves made this summer Phil will have $24 mil. If he get's lucky and JR opts out he'll have more money but in either case he should be able to spend the money wisely and put a better core together. He can't staff a team full of all stars, but being realistic he can change the core of the team.

I'm willing to go on record saying that Phil will not get 2 core players. Beyond being extremely rare, the current market does not have those players available.

It's difficult to judge that at this point. The idea is to see if you can land one Core Player in the draft and then find another young vet who can be part of the core going forward. There are no guarantees but that's the task and we at least will be players this year. This isn't a situation where we have to sit on the sidelines because we don't have cap space or a draft pick.

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:Doesn't really matter what Boston or Dallas are doing. The Knicks have to make the best use of the resources and options they have available to them. Very few GM's make all perfect moves. We can't expect perfection from Phil. As long as his ratio of good moves is higher than the ones that don't work out, that is going to be good for the franchise. Right now he hasn't done anything that would prevent us from improving the team. Fans may not agree with Phil's moves but right now Phil still has tons of options open to improve the roster.

All of Phil's most important moves are ahead of him. Guys are judging him off the few moves he's made before his most important moves have been made! Boston is already further ahead in their total rebuild. But they don't have any players that you could come close to calling a franchise player. Even if Melo isn't a franchise player, he's better than anything the Celtics have. Now it's up to Phil to bring in core talent that we can build around. At the very LEAST Phil will likely be able to set 2-3 cornerstone players this year, between the draft and free agency. Right now it's easy to criticize since he hasn't made his moves yet. We can't know just how things are going to work out until Phil makes his next moves.

Phil hardly has any moves to make beyond a lottery pick and some cap space. He inherited this mess but the reality is that he handicapped himself so early in his tenure by dealing the team's best trade asset (not named Melo) and by acquiring Jose Calderon's contract. Knowing that doesn't inspire confidence about his abilities moving forward.

How does Calderon handicap Phil's ability to make deals or add Free Agents? I think it gets overstated just how much Phil will or won't be able to do. He DOES NOT have to fix every hole on the team this year. He has to get 2 cornerstone players if he can. A big and a guard is pretty much what he has to focus on at the very least this summer. Add one key asset in the draft and another in free agency. From there he's going to have to make smart signings or a trade that adds good role players.

You don't have a team until you have a solid core. If he can't put together a solid core with the draft pick and cap space he has then he would be a failure. There's simply no excuse for not coming out of this summer with 2 core pieces or more being added this year. With no special moves made this summer Phil will have $24 mil. If he get's lucky and JR opts out he'll have more money but in either case he should be able to spend the money wisely and put a better core together. He can't staff a team full of all stars, but being realistic he can change the core of the team.

I'm willing to go on record saying that Phil will not get 2 core players. Beyond being extremely rare, the current market does not have those players available.

It's difficult to judge that at this point. The idea is to see if you can land one Core Player in the draft and then find another young vet who can be part of the core going forward. There are no guarantees but that's the task and we at least will be players this year. This isn't a situation where we have to sit on the sidelines because we don't have cap space or a draft pick.

But Phil said winning would be key to

Attracting free agents so can we chalk this up

As more BS from him, because according to you

We're getting at least 1 free agent whether we are 82-0

or go 0-82, let's get this out of the way

This current season has set the tone for offseason conversation

So understand some aren't going to be tolerable overselling

Any move this organization makes, might want to practice

Objective approaches to analyzing this team along with the rest of the league

The point of this thread was to show moves made by an oragnization

Should marry the objective and not go contrary to it

Phil did not trade Tyson and Felton to land in the lottery

Which is still based on chance mind you

F500ONE wrote:But Phil said winning would be key to

Attracting free agents so can we chalk this up

As more BS from him, because according to you

We're getting at least 1 free agent whether we are 82-0

or go 0-82, let's get this out of the way

This current season has set the tone for offseason conversation

So understand some aren't going to be tolerable overselling

Any move this organization makes, might want to practice

Objective approaches to analyzing this team along with the rest of the league

The point of this thread was to show moves made by an oragnization

Should marry the objective and not go contrary to it

Phil did not trade Tyson and Felton to land in the lottery

Which is still based on chance mind you

We know Phil wasn't intending to be in the lottery but he was aware of the fact that he had a draft pick in his pocket. We all understand how the lottery works. We all understand that any number of different things both good and bad can happen with this team this summer. Losing like this doesn't guarantee that the Knicks will be unsuccessful in landing a free agent. It may have made things a bit harder but not impossible.

So yes Phil can't sell the program to free agents the way he may have wanted, but that doesn't remove every last single option. There are always players and agents in various different positions who will see this as a good spot for them to be. Our money is green and not every FA is in win now mode. There are a lot of young FA's looking for their 1st big contract. Players who have lots of years left and who would love to get out of a smaller city and into a big city like NY. Good players will understand that this team needs an improvement in talent. Those players will also see themselves as the solution to that need for talent.

I'm not sure what you're angle is except for trying to paint the Knicks situation as hopeless. You seem to derive some pleasure or comfort from trying to make this clear to everyone on the forum. We get it. The Knicks are doomed and will never climb out of this hole. There's no chance that Phil can put this franchise on a positive direction. HAPPY?

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:I'm willing to give this rebuild the 3-5 years that it's gonna take
to get back to respectability. Melo needs to go for picks and rotational players
to expedite and facilitate this process.

No team will give us a bunch of picks unless its a bad team with lots of picks and need to draw some fans. Melo would never sign off on a bad team. And why should we trust the Knicks getting picks and getting the right players and don't hand me that Phil Jackson crap. Phil won't last the 5 years he will resign before that time.

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:Doesn't really matter what Boston or Dallas are doing. The Knicks have to make the best use of the resources and options they have available to them. Very few GM's make all perfect moves. We can't expect perfection from Phil. As long as his ratio of good moves is higher than the ones that don't work out, that is going to be good for the franchise. Right now he hasn't done anything that would prevent us from improving the team. Fans may not agree with Phil's moves but right now Phil still has tons of options open to improve the roster.

All of Phil's most important moves are ahead of him. Guys are judging him off the few moves he's made before his most important moves have been made! Boston is already further ahead in their total rebuild. But they don't have any players that you could come close to calling a franchise player. Even if Melo isn't a franchise player, he's better than anything the Celtics have. Now it's up to Phil to bring in core talent that we can build around. At the very LEAST Phil will likely be able to set 2-3 cornerstone players this year, between the draft and free agency. Right now it's easy to criticize since he hasn't made his moves yet. We can't know just how things are going to work out until Phil makes his next moves.

Phil hardly has any moves to make beyond a lottery pick and some cap space. He inherited this mess but the reality is that he handicapped himself so early in his tenure by dealing the team's best trade asset (not named Melo) and by acquiring Jose Calderon's contract. Knowing that doesn't inspire confidence about his abilities moving forward.

How does Calderon handicap Phil's ability to make deals or add Free Agents? I think it gets overstated just how much Phil will or won't be able to do. He DOES NOT have to fix every hole on the team this year. He has to get 2 cornerstone players if he can. A big and a guard is pretty much what he has to focus on at the very least this summer. Add one key asset in the draft and another in free agency. From there he's going to have to make smart signings or a trade that adds good role players.

You don't have a team until you have a solid core. If he can't put together a solid core with the draft pick and cap space he has then he would be a failure. There's simply no excuse for not coming out of this summer with 2 core pieces or more being added this year. With no special moves made this summer Phil will have $24 mil. If he get's lucky and JR opts out he'll have more money but in either case he should be able to spend the money wisely and put a better core together. He can't staff a team full of all stars, but being realistic he can change the core of the team.

Papabear Says

Nixluva why don't you just admit it. Phil Jackson make a bad move by moving chandler and taking on more money. No star player is going to come here this summer with our record. Just say Phil made a mistake. Before we become a contender Phil Jackson's contract will be up. However I believe Phil will take the easy way out and resign next season or the season after that for health reasons. Phils name will not bring star players to New York and the only way we will get a half way good player will be if his team wants to dump him. I doubt Phil believe he can turn this team around. Kerr was right a smart not to take the Knicks coaching job. This sure make Woody look good. Remember Woody? The guy who you beat up on all last season? Phil Jackson had great GM's when he won those rings. They were able to get the players Phil Needed to win those ring. Phil was never a GM and just because he was a great coach with the best 2 or 3 players in the league to win those rings. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen would have won some rings even without Phil Jackson being the coach. And one more thing Phil would never come down and coach this Knicks team and make a fool out of himself. He should have never traded Chandler or Felton. As bad as felton was last year him and Chandler had a better connection then what we have now and if Woody would have been coaching we would have a better record. Right now Phil don't look too good. Come on man only 5 wins? Also JR Smith ain't no fool! No way will he opt out of his contract. He is poison.

What if the draft pick doesnt immediately contribute? That holds the team back. Does melo shut it down every losing season? that holds the team back. I'd really question the types of players that would come to a losing team that dont have an interest in winning.

i'm real surprised at Nix...wont admit he was so so wrong. now touting the draft pick like that was Phil's choice when it wasnt.

knickscity wrote:

Papabear wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nixluva wrote:Doesn't really matter what Boston or Dallas are doing. The Knicks have to make the best use of the resources and options they have available to them. Very few GM's make all perfect moves. We can't expect perfection from Phil. As long as his ratio of good moves is higher than the ones that don't work out, that is going to be good for the franchise. Right now he hasn't done anything that would prevent us from improving the team. Fans may not agree with Phil's moves but right now Phil still has tons of options open to improve the roster.

All of Phil's most important moves are ahead of him. Guys are judging him off the few moves he's made before his most important moves have been made! Boston is already further ahead in their total rebuild. But they don't have any players that you could come close to calling a franchise player. Even if Melo isn't a franchise player, he's better than anything the Celtics have. Now it's up to Phil to bring in core talent that we can build around. At the very LEAST Phil will likely be able to set 2-3 cornerstone players this year, between the draft and free agency. Right now it's easy to criticize since he hasn't made his moves yet. We can't know just how things are going to work out until Phil makes his next moves.

Phil hardly has any moves to make beyond a lottery pick and some cap space. He inherited this mess but the reality is that he handicapped himself so early in his tenure by dealing the team's best trade asset (not named Melo) and by acquiring Jose Calderon's contract. Knowing that doesn't inspire confidence about his abilities moving forward.

How does Calderon handicap Phil's ability to make deals or add Free Agents? I think it gets overstated just how much Phil will or won't be able to do. He DOES NOT have to fix every hole on the team this year. He has to get 2 cornerstone players if he can. A big and a guard is pretty much what he has to focus on at the very least this summer. Add one key asset in the draft and another in free agency. From there he's going to have to make smart signings or a trade that adds good role players.

You don't have a team until you have a solid core. If he can't put together a solid core with the draft pick and cap space he has then he would be a failure. There's simply no excuse for not coming out of this summer with 2 core pieces or more being added this year. With no special moves made this summer Phil will have $24 mil. If he get's lucky and JR opts out he'll have more money but in either case he should be able to spend the money wisely and put a better core together. He can't staff a team full of all stars, but being realistic he can change the core of the team.

Papabear Says

Nixluva why don't you just admit it. Phil Jackson make a bad move by moving chandler and taking on more money. No star player is going to come here this summer with our record. Just say Phil made a mistake. Before we become a contender Phil Jackson's contract will be up. However I believe Phil will take the easy way out and resign next season or the season after that for health reasons. Phils name will not bring star players to New York and the only way we will get a half way good player will be if his team wants to dump him. I doubt Phil believe he can turn this team around. Kerr was right a smart not to take the Knicks coaching job. This sure make Woody look good. Remember Woody? The guy who you beat up on all last season? Phil Jackson had great GM's when he won those rings. They were able to get the players Phil Needed to win those ring. Phil was never a GM and just because he was a great coach with the best 2 or 3 players in the league to win those rings. Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen would have won some rings even without Phil Jackson being the coach. And one more thing Phil would never come down and coach this Knicks team and make a fool out of himself. He should have never traded Chandler or Felton. As bad as felton was last year him and Chandler had a better connection then what we have now and if Woody would have been coaching we would have a better record. Right now Phil don't look too good. Come on man only 5 wins? Also JR Smith ain't no fool! No way will he opt out of his contract. He is poison.

I agree with you 100%. Phil so far has been a failure. he planned for one thing and that has not come to fruition at all. now the question remains is whether he will stay a failure? I see ready made excuses already lined up for him.....

What if the draft pick doesnt immediately contribute? That holds the team back. Does melo shut it down every losing season? that holds the team back. I'd really question the types of players that would come to a losing team that dont have an interest in winning.

i'm real surprised at Nix...wont admit he was so so wrong. now touting the draft pick like that was Phil's choice when it wasnt.

1st of all what does it matter whether I was "right" or "wrong" about this year? There's this group of posters here that seem to think it's important for me to say I was wrong when it's obvious things didn't work out the way they were planned. It's self evident that I was wrong about what this team was going to be able to do this year. I was wrong that the team was never fully healthy and we never got to even see what that would look like. That's really not important. I'm one person on a basketball forum, who was trying to make a prediction about how players should fit together. We never got to really see that. Too many injuries and slumping players. Jose is having his worst season of his career and so it's fun for some to act like this is how he's played his entire career. It's fun for these guys to act like this team was 100% healthy all this time and we got to see this team start the year as a full unit when we didn't.

IMO none of this matters anymore. The new reality is that Phil now has to fully move on from this roster to planning for the new roster and the future of the team. So yes the draft pick may not have originally been an important factor to him, but it is now. Of course Phil didn't start the year off thinking about the draft pick but he's definitely thinking about it now.

As for Free Agents, how are the Knicks not interested in winning because of what happened this season? Any Free Agent coming here will know that Phil wants to remake the team into a winner. That's always what signing a player is about. This won't be the right place for some guys but for others it may just be the perfect spot. Phil's targets will no doubt change due to the losing season. We most likely won't be going after older, "win now" players, who won't want to come to a team that clearly has to rebuild.

What I don't understand is the anger that some are displaying at our current situation. The team we have wasn't going to challenge for a title and we were going to have to make changes regardless of this year's record. Now it's even more of a chance to rebuild the roster for the future than Phil likely originally planned. What's wrong with that? It's a blessing in disguise.