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The Mess usually starts at the top.......
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Nalod
Posts: 71364
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12/24/2014  9:38 AM
For years I have been harping that failed franchises are not usually the handiwork of the GM, but the owner who sets the agenda.
Some of you have wondered out loud how Billy King keeps his job in Brooklyn. Its because he is following orders.

Its why Grunfeld got Boxed in, Layden got Dice, why Isiah was hired, empowered and not fired even for Anucha! Its how Amare and Melo come to ny. Perhaps only Isiah had the autonomy to build his disaster but when Dolan forced him to coach it after saying he would not, it became apparent who was back in charge.

I think Phil represents a guy that Dolan can trust and will listen to. By now Panic would have set in and a coach fired or panic trades would soon occur.

Over in Brooklyn it was evident that the franchise wanted Melo to be the face of the franchise and star attraction. My take is Billy King has others to share blame with in the organization. Nets are mediocrity is one thing, but at the salary they are paying out and the price they paid for Garnett and Pierce I would hope for Kings sake he was against it or advised objectively they were rolling the dice. Since he is not fired by now, I assume this.

For the knicks to create change it was important a basketball guy be in charge. I think Phil brings this.
The rest will take a few years to come together. To think otherwise is naive.

For all the excitement at Barclays Center, for all the dunks and athletic derring-do of Mason Plumlee and the impossible shots made by Joe Johnson, it was just another regular season win against a weak opponent. The Nets have only won one game vs. a winning team and lost two to losing teams.

A change has got to come. Howard Beck, in analyzing why things have gone so wrong in Brooklyn, thinks he knows what's next for the franchise.

Deron Williams could be shipped out.

Brook Lopez could follow.

Joe Johnson will likely stay, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

The Nets—having spent wildly to chase a title only to find themselves stuck on a gold-plated treadmill—are now working to break the cycle of mediocrity. All they need is a willing trade partner (or two) to take their high-priced stars.

It's not set in stone. In fact, a league source very familiar with the Nets situation, told NetsDaily that it's entirely possible that Billy King won't deal any of the Big Three. But it won't be for lack of trying.

Beck catalogues all the mistakes he says have broken the Nets dreams and their fans hearts. He also notes the Nets have some good young assets.

But for him, the bottom line is that the Nets front office was just following orders from Moscow (as sinister as that sounds)...

From the moment the Nets were purchased by Mikhail Prokhorov, the swaggering Russian billionaire, the standing order was clear: Get a star. Any star. And get him now.

With the Nets moving from New Jersey to Brooklyn in 2012, the business and marketing folks ruled the agenda. Prokhorov needed a name to put on the Barclays Center marquee and a means to bump the Knicks off the back pages of the tabloids.

Beck doesn't mention that Prokhorov also provided the seed money for the Nets move to Brooklyn as well as barrels of cash to replenish what was a barren basketball operations staff, with three assistant coaches and as few scouts when he arrived. Not to mention money to improve team amenities which before he came on the scene were at rock bottom of the league.

Still, there's no denying the team has yet to produce at a level that will fulfill Prokhorov's dream and it's time to, as Beck writes in his lead, "radically reshape the Brooklyn Nets as we have come to know and love (and/or mock, and/or disdain) them."

And Beck was not alone in the assessment. Stefan Bondy wrote post-game about talks with the Kings regarding D-WIll.

With trade rumors surrounding Brooklyn‘s three highest-paid players, a source told the Daily News that Williams is most likely to be dealt. Talks with the Kings have dated back to last season, and Sacramento remains a possibility. Even though negotiations have cooled, “they’re never done,” a source said.

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CrushAlot
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12/24/2014  9:57 AM
^^^Agree. The nets had that guy in Rod Thorn. Billy King has been horrible.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
Posts: 71364
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Joined: 12/24/2003
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12/24/2014  10:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/24/2014  10:24 AM
CrushAlot wrote:^^^Agree. The nets had that guy in Rod Thorn. Billy King has been horrible.

No, your missing the point, Thorn had a different owner! King had a starphuch owner who was willing to gamble. My assumption is not that Billy kings sucks, but he still has his job because his owner is the one setting the agenda. For all we know King can assemble potential deals and then advise Prokorov its NOT a good idea, or what the risks are. Then the Russian makes the decision. Its his team!!!!

Billy King has been horrible, but one would have to look at the process by which they make their decisions and what was the agenda!
I'd say the same for Layden! He succeeded to get Dolan a star for broadway but it comes with risks. If Dolan was properly advised about the risks to his health and the financial ramifications then the decision is his. Same for Amare. If Dolan after clearing room for Lebron thinks plan be is to get a "Star" and walsh advised him as to why PHX was not extending him beyond 3 years, his Docters advising him to his potential condition, and his financial guy advising him his contract will not be insured then whose decision is it?

You think Dolan lets Layden make 100 million dollar decisions? Same for Walsh, whom he obviously did not trust? You think Walsh was responsible for melo "Forcing" his way in?"

Most owners are very involved. Not to say many don't hold their GM's accountable, but there are many owners who are the ones pulling the strings and are themselves accountable. Its very evident when Dolan ran over Walsh and walsh was basically asked to leave. Dolan wanted who he wanted.

lets hope Dolan is a wiser man having lived thru all the bad years. Just let a basketball guy run things!!!!

Billy King survives as its my assumption he is following orders and has advised the Russian properly. If he didn't listen to his GM, then its not on him (king).

BigDaddyG
Posts: 39943
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Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

12/24/2014  10:36 AM
Nalod wrote:For years I have been harping that failed franchises are not usually the handiwork of the GM, but the owner who sets the agenda.
Some of you have wondered out loud how Billy King keeps his job in Brooklyn. Its because he is following orders.

Its why Grunfeld got Boxed in, Layden got Dice, why Isiah was hired, empowered and not fired even for Anucha! Its how Amare and Melo come to ny. Perhaps only Isiah had the autonomy to build his disaster but when Dolan forced him to coach it after saying he would not, it became apparent who was back in charge.

I think Phil represents a guy that Dolan can trust and will listen to. By now Panic would have set in and a coach fired or panic trades would soon occur.

Over in Brooklyn it was evident that the franchise wanted Melo to be the face of the franchise and star attraction. My take is Billy King has others to share blame with in the organization. Nets are mediocrity is one thing, but at the salary they are paying out and the price they paid for Garnett and Pierce I would hope for Kings sake he was against it or advised objectively they were rolling the dice. Since he is not fired by now, I assume this.

For the knicks to create change it was important a basketball guy be in charge. I think Phil brings this.
The rest will take a few years to come together. To think otherwise is naive.

For all the excitement at Barclays Center, for all the dunks and athletic derring-do of Mason Plumlee and the impossible shots made by Joe Johnson, it was just another regular season win against a weak opponent. The Nets have only won one game vs. a winning team and lost two to losing teams.

A change has got to come. Howard Beck, in analyzing why things have gone so wrong in Brooklyn, thinks he knows what's next for the franchise.

Deron Williams could be shipped out.

Brook Lopez could follow.

Joe Johnson will likely stay, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

The Nets—having spent wildly to chase a title only to find themselves stuck on a gold-plated treadmill—are now working to break the cycle of mediocrity. All they need is a willing trade partner (or two) to take their high-priced stars.

It's not set in stone. In fact, a league source very familiar with the Nets situation, told NetsDaily that it's entirely possible that Billy King won't deal any of the Big Three. But it won't be for lack of trying.

Beck catalogues all the mistakes he says have broken the Nets dreams and their fans hearts. He also notes the Nets have some good young assets.

But for him, the bottom line is that the Nets front office was just following orders from Moscow (as sinister as that sounds)...

From the moment the Nets were purchased by Mikhail Prokhorov, the swaggering Russian billionaire, the standing order was clear: Get a star. Any star. And get him now.

With the Nets moving from New Jersey to Brooklyn in 2012, the business and marketing folks ruled the agenda. Prokhorov needed a name to put on the Barclays Center marquee and a means to bump the Knicks off the back pages of the tabloids.

Beck doesn't mention that Prokhorov also provided the seed money for the Nets move to Brooklyn as well as barrels of cash to replenish what was a barren basketball operations staff, with three assistant coaches and as few scouts when he arrived. Not to mention money to improve team amenities which before he came on the scene were at rock bottom of the league.

Still, there's no denying the team has yet to produce at a level that will fulfill Prokhorov's dream and it's time to, as Beck writes in his lead, "radically reshape the Brooklyn Nets as we have come to know and love (and/or mock, and/or disdain) them."

And Beck was not alone in the assessment. Stefan Bondy wrote post-game about talks with the Kings regarding D-WIll.

With trade rumors surrounding Brooklyn‘s three highest-paid players, a source told the Daily News that Williams is most likely to be dealt. Talks with the Kings have dated back to last season, and Sacramento remains a possibility. Even though negotiations have cooled, “they’re never done,” a source said.


Not familiar with Brroklyn's situation, but do you think the Russian still keeps King on staff because he plans on selling the team anyway?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
Posts: 71364
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
12/24/2014  11:06 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Nalod wrote:For years I have been harping that failed franchises are not usually the handiwork of the GM, but the owner who sets the agenda.
Some of you have wondered out loud how Billy King keeps his job in Brooklyn. Its because he is following orders.

Its why Grunfeld got Boxed in, Layden got Dice, why Isiah was hired, empowered and not fired even for Anucha! Its how Amare and Melo come to ny. Perhaps only Isiah had the autonomy to build his disaster but when Dolan forced him to coach it after saying he would not, it became apparent who was back in charge.

I think Phil represents a guy that Dolan can trust and will listen to. By now Panic would have set in and a coach fired or panic trades would soon occur.

Over in Brooklyn it was evident that the franchise wanted Melo to be the face of the franchise and star attraction. My take is Billy King has others to share blame with in the organization. Nets are mediocrity is one thing, but at the salary they are paying out and the price they paid for Garnett and Pierce I would hope for Kings sake he was against it or advised objectively they were rolling the dice. Since he is not fired by now, I assume this.

For the knicks to create change it was important a basketball guy be in charge. I think Phil brings this.
The rest will take a few years to come together. To think otherwise is naive.

For all the excitement at Barclays Center, for all the dunks and athletic derring-do of Mason Plumlee and the impossible shots made by Joe Johnson, it was just another regular season win against a weak opponent. The Nets have only won one game vs. a winning team and lost two to losing teams.

A change has got to come. Howard Beck, in analyzing why things have gone so wrong in Brooklyn, thinks he knows what's next for the franchise.

Deron Williams could be shipped out.

Brook Lopez could follow.

Joe Johnson will likely stay, but there's no guarantee of that, either.

The Nets—having spent wildly to chase a title only to find themselves stuck on a gold-plated treadmill—are now working to break the cycle of mediocrity. All they need is a willing trade partner (or two) to take their high-priced stars.

It's not set in stone. In fact, a league source very familiar with the Nets situation, told NetsDaily that it's entirely possible that Billy King won't deal any of the Big Three. But it won't be for lack of trying.

Beck catalogues all the mistakes he says have broken the Nets dreams and their fans hearts. He also notes the Nets have some good young assets.

But for him, the bottom line is that the Nets front office was just following orders from Moscow (as sinister as that sounds)...

From the moment the Nets were purchased by Mikhail Prokhorov, the swaggering Russian billionaire, the standing order was clear: Get a star. Any star. And get him now.

With the Nets moving from New Jersey to Brooklyn in 2012, the business and marketing folks ruled the agenda. Prokhorov needed a name to put on the Barclays Center marquee and a means to bump the Knicks off the back pages of the tabloids.

Beck doesn't mention that Prokhorov also provided the seed money for the Nets move to Brooklyn as well as barrels of cash to replenish what was a barren basketball operations staff, with three assistant coaches and as few scouts when he arrived. Not to mention money to improve team amenities which before he came on the scene were at rock bottom of the league.

Still, there's no denying the team has yet to produce at a level that will fulfill Prokhorov's dream and it's time to, as Beck writes in his lead, "radically reshape the Brooklyn Nets as we have come to know and love (and/or mock, and/or disdain) them."

And Beck was not alone in the assessment. Stefan Bondy wrote post-game about talks with the Kings regarding D-WIll.

With trade rumors surrounding Brooklyn‘s three highest-paid players, a source told the Daily News that Williams is most likely to be dealt. Talks with the Kings have dated back to last season, and Sacramento remains a possibility. Even though negotiations have cooled, “they’re never done,” a source said.


Not familiar with Brroklyn's situation, but do you think the Russian still keeps King on staff because he plans on selling the team anyway?


The rumors got diluted to "Prokhorov was listening to offers to sell a minority stake". This was in October. Given the Ruble devaluation I'd think his assets outside Russia are more stable than those inside. It would stand to reason that he might not be so amicable to write another 144mil outlay this year. They guy is smart and would expect the Ruble to be hurting him but not wipe him out so fast.

So just based on what I have read I don't see him selling his controlling stake. He has owned 80%, not 100%.

Im not defending King btw, just a fan of the business of sports and the nets have been a fascinating story the last few years. Their decision making process and subsequent finance ramifications are off the charts yielding mediocrity at premium prices! The Plan to add Pierce and Garnett as role pieces to youthful core was bold as hell! They paid way too much for them long term. Perhaps is Deron and Brook stayed healthy. Deron was a top 5 guard and BroPez' Trajectory was a top 5 center. Injury stunted them. I also think Chemistry issues and the JKidd debacle also derailed them.

The assembly of that team in the way it was done, and then Hiring Rookie coach Kidd was some bold thinking and took balls to implement!
To some its fun to revel in the misery of it as "Nets suck, Knicks are my team" might be many's mantra but I have to admit I was captivated by it. The only thing for me was they never hooked me emotionally. I have not lived in Brooklyn in 40 years, not been a net fan since they stopped using the red,white and blue ball, and while I loved the idea of it, it just never resonated with me. Had they made a run to the finals and won, it would have been a big NY city story and they would have captured many new fans who have grown up without a real home team pull.

My knick history begins with them in 1971 when I started going to games with my uncle and no matter how bad they are both on and off the court I can't shake them! I have tried.

The Mess usually starts at the top.......

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