arkrud wrote:East deferentially sucks. No question.
NBA has talent but it watered down because of too many teams.
Teams like Phily, Detroit, Knicks, Hornets should not be in NBA.
Cut this league by 8 teams and it will be a very good league.

Yes, too many teams chasing dollars. Money has taken over. Its too big to remain high quality.

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Is there a better league elsewhere? Or are you just saying that basketball isn't enjoyable for you?

The game has changed and it is becoming less enjoyable as there are fewer teams that play fundamentally sound ball. It is all just a talent war now, skills are secondary. You may end up with a few teams that fit my description of good ball, but that leaves a league full of what I now feel is garbage hoops. Now that my home team is stuck in mud and is the worst possible kind of ball, it is making it hard for me to stay plugged into this. I've been angry, but it is also the way of the world and I'm trying to accept it so I can move on. Things change. Pleasures can be found elsewhere.

A New Hope:

The Triangle offense creates ball movement and requires some solid fundamental play. You have 2/3 of the team will be gone next year and according to Fish, "Being asked to sacrifice to win" is hard when you are playing for contract. While this is not on the fans to carry this, the fact is the only way to NOT do this is to compromise the longer term objective.

Personally Im not watching nearly as many games but thats because Its football season. NBA usually sucks the first two months unless the knicks are relevent.

I'd say the modern era athlete is superior to previous generations. We tend to consolidate eras and look back on them fondly. The glorious 1970's when Kareem was the best on the planet the league finals were on tape delay. I remember staying up to watch the knicks clinch in 1973 as a kid. I don't remember the day of the week but the game started at 7:30 pacific, or 10:30 Eastern!!! Knicks and Lakers in the finals and no prime time!!!!! You had the games biggest stars! Clyde, The Logo, Earl, Wilt, Willis, etc and no prime time!!!

Would Louis Orr play in todays NBA? Chris Dudley? Kevin "the Animal" Bannister? Eddie Lee Wilikens?

Top 1% in the world get to crack the NBA, but really its the top 50 that make any money. 420 players at any time. Say 10 per team in a rotation, thats 300 players that get burn. With 30 1st rounders picked each year, that gives you turn over as well.

I think the NFL and the NHL has moved away from promoting the stars and promote the team and the brand. With constant roster changes maybe this is how the NBA is going as well. Melo is more of a NY star then league star. He is there with Harden, Westbrook, etc....All stars but not superstars. This league has only one superstar in Lebron right now. Durant is a household name because of marketing.

Ratings have been strong the last few years. Revenues are strong.

In the NFL you have no "great teams", just teams that are playing great now. New England is in a weak division and clinched its playoff spot. The rest of the league is a coin toss, that btw makes for great fan interest!!!

NHL has very few star players to market but they draw strong at the gate in their cities. TV has always been a problem for them.

I Know very few MLB players now and had no idea KC was even capable of making a run. I knew non of their players before I sat down and watched all of two series games. I used to love baseball, now I could care less. I never watch a regular season game. I'll go to yankee stadium once every two years when Im in town but thats just to see the spectacle of it all!

NFL football? I passed on Panther tix this weekend. I really just don't care. Im a Giant fan and caught some of the game. 1pm in the carolinas and its 65 degrees here in December. Lots to do outside!

With so much access to games it also dilutes the mystery. Back in the day when Oscar Robertson played in Cincinatti (before my time) unless the knicks were playing them, you likely did not see him play. Not all knick games were televised BTW on channel 9! No home games were ever televised and not all of the away games. We had read about "Spencer Haywood" in seattle but never got to see him play! Tiny Archibald lead the league in scoring playing for Kansas City/Omaha Kings!!!!! Trust me, there was very little exposure to them! The mystique was there. Plus, TV was shytty then so if you really wanted to see Connie Hawkins in his prime, you had to go to the game! And if you lived in North Carolina then, you had the Balitimore Bullets or Atlanta Hawks! Basically you had one national game a week on TV in non team markets! its why College was such a big deal in those areas. UNC basketball was bigger than the pro's in this area!

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:I think the way the game is played

Makes the league not enjoyable but I also feel the East

Is getting unfair criticism, I think what's more puzzling

The fact many in the NBA community are not used to seeing these teams

Toronto
Atlanta
Wizards

At the top of the top of the Conference but look at their records

18-6 17-6 16-7 respectively as far as the West

It may be deeper than it's ever been, but what takes the cake

Is how historically atrocious we are and this is what stings the most

Truly has sucked the life out of the most ardent and loyal fans

Being a .700 team in the east is like a .500 team in the west. It really is that bad. Look at the records when the east and west matchup in games. The west wins about 70 or 75% of the time. I don't think the top east teams like Toronto are as good as low playoff seeded teams like Dallas, LAC, or San Antonio in the west.

SAS is the defending champ. I don't put much into this season as not many games have been played.
At the same time we need more games from the Warriors before we start labeling them awesome. Great start!!!
Spurs are very chill, they are about how they finish, not how they start.
Suns are 8th with losing record.

At the same time its hard to get excited about Toronto and Washington as they don't have the cred.

No doubt the West is stronger top to bottom, Im just not ready to label teams after less than 25 games.
Not to say IM not impressed with Warriors!!!!!
I'd like to get Amare on the Wizards some how for yoot/picks.

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:I think the way the game is played

Makes the league not enjoyable but I also feel the East

Is getting unfair criticism, I think what's more puzzling

The fact many in the NBA community are not used to seeing these teams

Toronto
Atlanta
Wizards

At the top of the top of the Conference but look at their records

18-6 17-6 16-7 respectively as far as the West

It may be deeper than it's ever been, but what takes the cake

Is how historically atrocious we are and this is what stings the most

Truly has sucked the life out of the most ardent and loyal fans

Being a .700 team in the east is like a .500 team in the west. It really is that bad. Look at the records when the east and west matchup in games. The west wins about 70 or 75% of the time. I don't think the top east teams like Toronto are as good as low playoff seeded teams like Dallas, LAC, or San Antonio in the west.

SAS is the defending champ. I don't put much into this season as not many games have been played.
At the same time we need more games from the Warriors before we start labeling them awesome. Great start!!!
Spurs are very chill, they are about how they finish, not how they start.
Suns are 8th with losing record.

At the same time its hard to get excited about Toronto and Washington as they don't have the cred.

No doubt the West is stronger top to bottom, Im just not ready to label teams after less than 25 games.
Not to say IM not impressed with Warriors!!!!!
I'd like to get Amare on the Wizards some how for yoot/picks.

Exactly the same with Memphis and Portland out west

Funny thing is the Knicks would take

Kyle Lowry
Marc Gasol
Demar Derozan
LaMarcus Aldridge
Kyle Korver
Damain Lillard
John Wall
Paul Milsap
Bradley Beal

On this team in a heartbeat, as these are the best players on the best teams

East and West Respectively, gotta get away from the mentality that if

We aren't, the Lakers aren't, the Celtics aren't good

Then the league isn't good, could it would it be better if so

Sure but that's not what makes the league bad

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Is there a better league elsewhere? Or are you just saying that basketball isn't enjoyable for you?

The game has changed and it is becoming less enjoyable as there are fewer teams that play fundamentally sound ball. It is all just a talent war now, skills are secondary. You may end up with a few teams that fit my description of good ball, but that leaves a league full of what I now feel is garbage hoops. Now that my home team is stuck in mud and is the worst possible kind of ball, it is making it hard for me to stay plugged into this. I've been angry, but it is also the way of the world and I'm trying to accept it so I can move on. Things change. Pleasures can be found elsewhere.

A New Hope:

The Triangle offense creates ball movement and requires some solid fundamental play. You have 2/3 of the team will be gone next year and according to Fish, "Being asked to sacrifice to win" is hard when you are playing for contract. While this is not on the fans to carry this, the fact is the only way to NOT do this is to compromise the longer term objective.

Personally Im not watching nearly as many games but thats because Its football season. NBA usually sucks the first two months unless the knicks are relevent.

I'd say the modern era athlete is superior to previous generations. We tend to consolidate eras and look back on them fondly. The glorious 1970's when Kareem was the best on the planet the league finals were on tape delay. I remember staying up to watch the knicks clinch in 1973 as a kid. I don't remember the day of the week but the game started at 7:30 pacific, or 10:30 Eastern!!! Knicks and Lakers in the finals and no prime time!!!!! You had the games biggest stars! Clyde, The Logo, Earl, Wilt, Willis, etc and no prime time!!!

Would Louis Orr play in todays NBA? Chris Dudley? Kevin "the Animal" Bannister? Eddie Lee Wilikens?

Top 1% in the world get to crack the NBA, but really its the top 50 that make any money. 420 players at any time. Say 10 per team in a rotation, thats 300 players that get burn. With 30 1st rounders picked each year, that gives you turn over as well.

I think the NFL and the NHL has moved away from promoting the stars and promote the team and the brand. With constant roster changes maybe this is how the NBA is going as well. Melo is more of a NY star then league star. He is there with Harden, Westbrook, etc....All stars but not superstars. This league has only one superstar in Lebron right now. Durant is a household name because of marketing.

Ratings have been strong the last few years. Revenues are strong.

In the NFL you have no "great teams", just teams that are playing great now. New England is in a weak division and clinched its playoff spot. The rest of the league is a coin toss, that btw makes for great fan interest!!!

NHL has very few star players to market but they draw strong at the gate in their cities. TV has always been a problem for them.

I Know very few MLB players now and had no idea KC was even capable of making a run. I knew non of their players before I sat down and watched all of two series games. I used to love baseball, now I could care less. I never watch a regular season game. I'll go to yankee stadium once every two years when Im in town but thats just to see the spectacle of it all!

NFL football? I passed on Panther tix this weekend. I really just don't care. Im a Giant fan and caught some of the game. 1pm in the carolinas and its 65 degrees here in December. Lots to do outside!

With so much access to games it also dilutes the mystery. Back in the day when Oscar Robertson played in Cincinatti (before my time) unless the knicks were playing them, you likely did not see him play. Not all knick games were televised BTW on channel 9! No home games were ever televised and not all of the away games. We had read about "Spencer Haywood" in seattle but never got to see him play! Tiny Archibald lead the league in scoring playing for Kansas City/Omaha Kings!!!!! Trust me, there was very little exposure to them! The mystique was there. Plus, TV was shytty then so if you really wanted to see Connie Hawkins in his prime, you had to go to the game! And if you lived in North Carolina then, you had the Balitimore Bullets or Atlanta Hawks! Basically you had one national game a week on TV in non team markets! its why College was such a big deal in those areas. UNC basketball was bigger than the pro's in this area!

You've been around the block my friend.

As far as triangulation goes, if Phil does last 5 years AND stays committed to adding players with a clue, then it would be nice to see it all bear fruit. But it does take time, something I'm afraid the current environment (the NBA environment, Dolan's trigger finger and a probably impatient NYC market) mitigates against it happening.

Since I truly believe pretty nothing of real worth will happen with Melo on this team, I'm more or less hanging by a thread waiting to see if there is some outside chance he can be dealt. In that case, I'd just hope it signifies a change of strategy and finally a real foundation is laid long-term. It would mean sucking for multiple seasons, but it is either that or my ability to stay connected to this franchise will be shot.

But if Melo stays, it truly would require a trifecta of events to make it work with him (big draft, smart FA signings and savvy pick-ups). Since I have zero confidence that will happen, I'm pretty much down to hoping Melo is sent packing. I cannot watch this team with him as the centerpiece 4 more seasons after this. I'd rather give up watching sports than do that.

Melo is the antithesis of good basketball. He really has ruined my enjoyment of the Knicks being that everything has revolved around him and he is a black hole, not a source of light and hope.

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Is there a better league elsewhere? Or are you just saying that basketball isn't enjoyable for you?

The game has changed and it is becoming less enjoyable as there are fewer teams that play fundamentally sound ball. It is all just a talent war now, skills are secondary. You may end up with a few teams that fit my description of good ball, but that leaves a league full of what I now feel is garbage hoops. Now that my home team is stuck in mud and is the worst possible kind of ball, it is making it hard for me to stay plugged into this. I've been angry, but it is also the way of the world and I'm trying to accept it so I can move on. Things change. Pleasures can be found elsewhere.

A New Hope:

The Triangle offense creates ball movement and requires some solid fundamental play. You have 2/3 of the team will be gone next year and according to Fish, "Being asked to sacrifice to win" is hard when you are playing for contract. While this is not on the fans to carry this, the fact is the only way to NOT do this is to compromise the longer term objective.

Personally Im not watching nearly as many games but thats because Its football season. NBA usually sucks the first two months unless the knicks are relevent.

I'd say the modern era athlete is superior to previous generations. We tend to consolidate eras and look back on them fondly. The glorious 1970's when Kareem was the best on the planet the league finals were on tape delay. I remember staying up to watch the knicks clinch in 1973 as a kid. I don't remember the day of the week but the game started at 7:30 pacific, or 10:30 Eastern!!! Knicks and Lakers in the finals and no prime time!!!!! You had the games biggest stars! Clyde, The Logo, Earl, Wilt, Willis, etc and no prime time!!!

Would Louis Orr play in todays NBA? Chris Dudley? Kevin "the Animal" Bannister? Eddie Lee Wilikens?

Top 1% in the world get to crack the NBA, but really its the top 50 that make any money. 420 players at any time. Say 10 per team in a rotation, thats 300 players that get burn. With 30 1st rounders picked each year, that gives you turn over as well.

I think the NFL and the NHL has moved away from promoting the stars and promote the team and the brand. With constant roster changes maybe this is how the NBA is going as well. Melo is more of a NY star then league star. He is there with Harden, Westbrook, etc....All stars but not superstars. This league has only one superstar in Lebron right now. Durant is a household name because of marketing.

Ratings have been strong the last few years. Revenues are strong.

In the NFL you have no "great teams", just teams that are playing great now. New England is in a weak division and clinched its playoff spot. The rest of the league is a coin toss, that btw makes for great fan interest!!!

NHL has very few star players to market but they draw strong at the gate in their cities. TV has always been a problem for them.

I Know very few MLB players now and had no idea KC was even capable of making a run. I knew non of their players before I sat down and watched all of two series games. I used to love baseball, now I could care less. I never watch a regular season game. I'll go to yankee stadium once every two years when Im in town but thats just to see the spectacle of it all!

NFL football? I passed on Panther tix this weekend. I really just don't care. Im a Giant fan and caught some of the game. 1pm in the carolinas and its 65 degrees here in December. Lots to do outside!

With so much access to games it also dilutes the mystery. Back in the day when Oscar Robertson played in Cincinatti (before my time) unless the knicks were playing them, you likely did not see him play. Not all knick games were televised BTW on channel 9! No home games were ever televised and not all of the away games. We had read about "Spencer Haywood" in seattle but never got to see him play! Tiny Archibald lead the league in scoring playing for Kansas City/Omaha Kings!!!!! Trust me, there was very little exposure to them! The mystique was there. Plus, TV was shytty then so if you really wanted to see Connie Hawkins in his prime, you had to go to the game! And if you lived in North Carolina then, you had the Balitimore Bullets or Atlanta Hawks! Basically you had one national game a week on TV in non team markets! its why College was such a big deal in those areas. UNC basketball was bigger than the pro's in this area!

You've been around the block my friend.

As far as triangulation goes, if Phil does last 5 years AND stays committed to adding players with a clue, then it would be nice to see it all bear fruit. But it does take time, something I'm afraid the current environment (the NBA environment, Dolan's trigger finger and a probably impatient NYC market) mitigates against it happening.

Since I truly believe pretty nothing of real worth will happen with Melo on this team, I'm more or less hanging by a thread waiting to see if there is some outside chance he can be dealt. In that case, I'd just hope it signifies a change of strategy and finally a real foundation is laid long-term. It would mean sucking for multiple seasons, but it is either that or my ability to stay connected to this franchise will be shot.

But if Melo stays, it truly would require a trifecta of events to make it work with him (big draft, smart FA signings and savvy pick-ups). Since I have zero confidence that will happen, I'm pretty much down to hoping Melo is sent packing. I cannot watch this team with him as the centerpiece 4 more seasons after this. I'd rather give up watching sports than do that.

Melo is the antithesis of good basketball. He really has ruined my enjoyment of the Knicks being that everything has revolved around him and he is a black hole, not a source of light and hope.

I too hate Iso ball. I could not stand to watch the Cav's with Lebron his first time around. Too predictable.
Its a pleasure to watch team ball. I enjoyed the 54 win season becuase we had times it was pretty to watch.

Melo is one thing, but watching Stat turn into a double team and a turnover is even worse! I really do like Stat but winning with him won't happen until he is a role player.
Same with Melo. When he is a weapon instead of the focal point then we have a "TEAM". Life will also be much easier for him. I have to believe Phil has sold this to Melo, its why Fish is steadfast sticking to his system, and what future free agents will have be sold on.

And we need a high draft pick.

I have to believe Phil did not come here to just starphuch with melo to cash in. I have to believe there is a bigger vision.

Please don't confuse my belief with love for Melo. I just think he is getting too much blame. I get the reasons why, but im sticking with basketball.
I hope any trades we do we are net sellers than aquiring better talent for this year.

Magic Johnson calling for Lakers to tank! Lose big or win big!

love centrist posts.

F500ONE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Is there a better league elsewhere? Or are you just saying that basketball isn't enjoyable for you?

The game has changed and it is becoming less enjoyable as there are fewer teams that play fundamentally sound ball. It is all just a talent war now, skills are secondary. You may end up with a few teams that fit my description of good ball, but that leaves a league full of what I now feel is garbage hoops. Now that my home team is stuck in mud and is the worst possible kind of ball, it is making it hard for me to stay plugged into this. I've been angry, but it is also the way of the world and I'm trying to accept it so I can move on. Things change. Pleasures can be found elsewhere.

A New Hope:

The Triangle offense creates ball movement and requires some solid fundamental play. You have 2/3 of the team will be gone next year and according to Fish, "Being asked to sacrifice to win" is hard when you are playing for contract. While this is not on the fans to carry this, the fact is the only way to NOT do this is to compromise the longer term objective.

Personally Im not watching nearly as many games but thats because Its football season. NBA usually sucks the first two months unless the knicks are relevent.

I'd say the modern era athlete is superior to previous generations. We tend to consolidate eras and look back on them fondly. The glorious 1970's when Kareem was the best on the planet the league finals were on tape delay. I remember staying up to watch the knicks clinch in 1973 as a kid. I don't remember the day of the week but the game started at 7:30 pacific, or 10:30 Eastern!!! Knicks and Lakers in the finals and no prime time!!!!! You had the games biggest stars! Clyde, The Logo, Earl, Wilt, Willis, etc and no prime time!!!

Would Louis Orr play in todays NBA? Chris Dudley? Kevin "the Animal" Bannister? Eddie Lee Wilikens?

Top 1% in the world get to crack the NBA, but really its the top 50 that make any money. 420 players at any time. Say 10 per team in a rotation, thats 300 players that get burn. With 30 1st rounders picked each year, that gives you turn over as well.

I think the NFL and the NHL has moved away from promoting the stars and promote the team and the brand. With constant roster changes maybe this is how the NBA is going as well. Melo is more of a NY star then league star. He is there with Harden, Westbrook, etc....All stars but not superstars. This league has only one superstar in Lebron right now. Durant is a household name because of marketing.

Ratings have been strong the last few years. Revenues are strong.

In the NFL you have no "great teams", just teams that are playing great now. New England is in a weak division and clinched its playoff spot. The rest of the league is a coin toss, that btw makes for great fan interest!!!

NHL has very few star players to market but they draw strong at the gate in their cities. TV has always been a problem for them.

I Know very few MLB players now and had no idea KC was even capable of making a run. I knew non of their players before I sat down and watched all of two series games. I used to love baseball, now I could care less. I never watch a regular season game. I'll go to yankee stadium once every two years when Im in town but thats just to see the spectacle of it all!

NFL football? I passed on Panther tix this weekend. I really just don't care. Im a Giant fan and caught some of the game. 1pm in the carolinas and its 65 degrees here in December. Lots to do outside!

With so much access to games it also dilutes the mystery. Back in the day when Oscar Robertson played in Cincinatti (before my time) unless the knicks were playing them, you likely did not see him play. Not all knick games were televised BTW on channel 9! No home games were ever televised and not all of the away games. We had read about "Spencer Haywood" in seattle but never got to see him play! Tiny Archibald lead the league in scoring playing for Kansas City/Omaha Kings!!!!! Trust me, there was very little exposure to them! The mystique was there. Plus, TV was shytty then so if you really wanted to see Connie Hawkins in his prime, you had to go to the game! And if you lived in North Carolina then, you had the Balitimore Bullets or Atlanta Hawks! Basically you had one national game a week on TV in non team markets! its why College was such a big deal in those areas. UNC basketball was bigger than the pro's in this area!

You've been around the block my friend.

As far as triangulation goes, if Phil does last 5 years AND stays committed to adding players with a clue, then it would be nice to see it all bear fruit. But it does take time, something I'm afraid the current environment (the NBA environment, Dolan's trigger finger and a probably impatient NYC market) mitigates against it happening.

Since I truly believe pretty nothing of real worth will happen with Melo on this team, I'm more or less hanging by a thread waiting to see if there is some outside chance he can be dealt. In that case, I'd just hope it signifies a change of strategy and finally a real foundation is laid long-term. It would mean sucking for multiple seasons, but it is either that or my ability to stay connected to this franchise will be shot.

But if Melo stays, it truly would require a trifecta of events to make it work with him (big draft, smart FA signings and savvy pick-ups). Since I have zero confidence that will happen, I'm pretty much down to hoping Melo is sent packing. I cannot watch this team with him as the centerpiece 4 more seasons after this. I'd rather give up watching sports than do that.

Melo is the antithesis of good basketball. He really has ruined my enjoyment of the Knicks being that everything has revolved around him and he is a black hole, not a source of light and hope.

awesome. Check back in 4 years or so. You will be missed.

Hopefully you stick around amidst all the losing

But But But But Melo made the playoffs every yr except////lol

At least we know the Somber contingent will not be disappearing any time soon. Free MeloED Viagra almost every single day! IsoCialus, BOGO coupons!
All these poor, poor authentic knick fans.

Never fear, get your real pompoms out, March Madness is on the way!