Im thinking Phil gone public to motivate the team to get it together.

He has done it before with the lakers.

When Dolan ran the knick gulag there was no external peek to a disfunctional group. The players were sort of insulated and in a way not held accountable by the fans.
Dolan was horrified by any booes and sought to maintain viewership and thus ad rates! Call it Starphuching the ratings.

Its kind of on the players to stop the boo's isn't it? Play hard, execute what the coach wants. The team, as are many NBA players are used to revolting against a system if it did not suit their style.
Some guys are on contract years and stats matter when your a free agent. Some players are outright rejecting the system and what is the motivation?

We have heard "losing mentality" which can mean a lot of things. Blame the coach, blame the system, and even blame each other. We have new faces but the core guys of Melo, Shump, and JR are still here.
Melo is being exposed and while he might be motivated to change, Im not sure he really understands how hard it is. I really think the coaching staff instead of trying to hide our weakness is leaving it out there for the players to be exposed. They possess the ability to change.

Is this the change of culture? Give it 20 games and then "TRANSPARENCY"? "Accountability"?
Woodson and MDA got underminded by this core. I think Phil knows this groups "M-O" and planned to change it!
The system comes first and all players will adhere to it!!!!

Change in culture is not without pain. Its more than rebuilding.

Nalod wrote:Ther are a lot of pieces to this.

Im thinking Phil gone public to motivate the team to get it together.

He has done it before with the lakers.

When Dolan ran the knick gulag there was no external peek to a disfunctional group. The players were sort of insulated and in a way not held accountable by the fans.
Dolan was horrified by any booes and sought to maintain viewership and thus ad rates! Call it Starphuching the ratings.

Its kind of on the players to stop the boo's isn't it? Play hard, execute what the coach wants. The team, as are many NBA players are used to revolting against a system if it did not suit their style.
Some guys are on contract years and stats matter when your a free agent. Some players are outright rejecting the system and what is the motivation?

We have heard "losing mentality" which can mean a lot of things. Blame the coach, blame the system, and even blame each other. We have new faces but the core guys of Melo, Shump, and JR are still here.
Melo is being exposed and while he might be motivated to change, Im not sure he really understands how hard it is. I really think the coaching staff instead of trying to hide our weakness is leaving it out there for the players to be exposed. They possess the ability to change.

Is this the change of culture? Give it 20 games and then "TRANSPARENCY"? "Accountability"?
Woodson and MDA got underminded by this core. I think Phil knows this groups "M-O" and planned to change it!
The system comes first and all players will adhere to it!!!!

Change in culture is not without pain. Its more than rebuilding.

I can run with that, yet one thing remains which flips this narrative from one of re-education to one where we blow it all up.

Phil may have bit off more than he can chew with Melo. Melo simply is not coachable and Phil probably thought he could do more with him than he can.

I called it hubris. Phil may have had his share of it coming into this thinking he could change people. But Phil is also smart and even if he overestimated his capacity to get to Melo, he can also shift gears and blow this up.

The reason I think that is the case and why it is the direction of your narrative is that after 24 games there is a new agenda being leaked and that shows Phil knows sometimes you need to cut your losses quickly and get on with another approach. The storyline is not going to be "It's only 24 games, give the culture a chance" when Melo will never adapt. The only question is can we put together a deal. If Phil can work one out, Melo is gone.

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Ther are a lot of pieces to this.

Im thinking Phil gone public to motivate the team to get it together.

He has done it before with the lakers.

When Dolan ran the knick gulag there was no external peek to a disfunctional group. The players were sort of insulated and in a way not held accountable by the fans.
Dolan was horrified by any booes and sought to maintain viewership and thus ad rates! Call it Starphuching the ratings.

Its kind of on the players to stop the boo's isn't it? Play hard, execute what the coach wants. The team, as are many NBA players are used to revolting against a system if it did not suit their style.
Some guys are on contract years and stats matter when your a free agent. Some players are outright rejecting the system and what is the motivation?

We have heard "losing mentality" which can mean a lot of things. Blame the coach, blame the system, and even blame each other. We have new faces but the core guys of Melo, Shump, and JR are still here.
Melo is being exposed and while he might be motivated to change, Im not sure he really understands how hard it is. I really think the coaching staff instead of trying to hide our weakness is leaving it out there for the players to be exposed. They possess the ability to change.

Is this the change of culture? Give it 20 games and then "TRANSPARENCY"? "Accountability"?
Woodson and MDA got underminded by this core. I think Phil knows this groups "M-O" and planned to change it!
The system comes first and all players will adhere to it!!!!

Change in culture is not without pain. Its more than rebuilding.

I can run with that, yet one thing remains which flips this narrative from one of re-education to one where we blow it all up.

Phil may have bit off more than he can chew with Melo. Melo simply is not coachable and Phil probably thought he could do more with him than he can.

I called it hubris. Phil may have had his share of it coming into this thinking he could change people. But Phil is also smart and even if he overestimated his capacity to get to Melo, he can also shift gears and blow this up.

The reason I think that is the case and why it is the direction of your narrative is that after 24 games there is a new agenda being leaked and that shows Phil knows sometimes you need to cut your losses quickly and get on with another approach. The storyline is not going to be "It's only 24 games, give the culture a chance" when Melo will never adapt. The only question is can we put together a deal. If Phil can work one out, Melo is gone.

I read Phils books and while I am not "PhilLogist" or predict his thoughts (like many on the UK can), I see a man usually very deliberate in his actions. When a team implodes fans usually call to "Blow it up" but there are times when you know who to keep, and who must go. The aftermath of implosion can often have a lasting effect. The players can continue to fight or get on the same page. It might not happen this season but it provides and opportunity for leadership. Not just words, but for actions.

I can't imagine a scenario where this was not laid out to Melo over the summer. We are not privy to conversations he might have had in Chicago or with Phil but the knick turnaround could not have been all that expected given we actually downgraded our Center and the upgrade a PG was slight at best.

There is plenty of disappointments but we are not talking about Grunwald cowtoeing to Dolan, or Woodson who was our "Defensive coach" and gets the gig and basically goes with what we have. This year we are not switching on defense. Last year they did not execute and this year we are not doing it and read they don't like it. Phuch that, this system and coach will be around longer than most of this roster will be.

Im not promoting a "Melo Love" here but a logical scenario based on Phil's history and the experience he had breaking Jordan and Kobe. These guys were hard headed ego maniacs who resisted change. Remember when Kobe was "Uncoachable" and basically Phil had given up? Phil threw this cat under the bus in a book, but came back and they patched it up. Why? Cuz it was true and Kobe owned it.

What you or I don't know is will Melo own it?
Own it and you can enjoy the benefits.
Reject it and live with the label.

Jim Boeheim has been quiet these days!

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Ther are a lot of pieces to this.

Im thinking Phil gone public to motivate the team to get it together.

He has done it before with the lakers.

When Dolan ran the knick gulag there was no external peek to a disfunctional group. The players were sort of insulated and in a way not held accountable by the fans.
Dolan was horrified by any booes and sought to maintain viewership and thus ad rates! Call it Starphuching the ratings.

Its kind of on the players to stop the boo's isn't it? Play hard, execute what the coach wants. The team, as are many NBA players are used to revolting against a system if it did not suit their style.
Some guys are on contract years and stats matter when your a free agent. Some players are outright rejecting the system and what is the motivation?

We have heard "losing mentality" which can mean a lot of things. Blame the coach, blame the system, and even blame each other. We have new faces but the core guys of Melo, Shump, and JR are still here.
Melo is being exposed and while he might be motivated to change, Im not sure he really understands how hard it is. I really think the coaching staff instead of trying to hide our weakness is leaving it out there for the players to be exposed. They possess the ability to change.

Is this the change of culture? Give it 20 games and then "TRANSPARENCY"? "Accountability"?
Woodson and MDA got underminded by this core. I think Phil knows this groups "M-O" and planned to change it!
The system comes first and all players will adhere to it!!!!

Change in culture is not without pain. Its more than rebuilding.

I can run with that, yet one thing remains which flips this narrative from one of re-education to one where we blow it all up.

Phil may have bit off more than he can chew with Melo. Melo simply is not coachable and Phil probably thought he could do more with him than he can.

I called it hubris. Phil may have had his share of it coming into this thinking he could change people. But Phil is also smart and even if he overestimated his capacity to get to Melo, he can also shift gears and blow this up.

The reason I think that is the case and why it is the direction of your narrative is that after 24 games there is a new agenda being leaked and that shows Phil knows sometimes you need to cut your losses quickly and get on with another approach. The storyline is not going to be "It's only 24 games, give the culture a chance" when Melo will never adapt. The only question is can we put together a deal. If Phil can work one out, Melo is gone.

I read Phils books and while I am not "PhilLogist" or predict his thoughts (like many on the UK can), I see a man usually very deliberate in his actions. When a team implodes fans usually call to "Blow it up" but there are times when you know who to keep, and who must go. The aftermath of implosion can often have a lasting effect. The players can continue to fight or get on the same page. It might not happen this season but it provides and opportunity for leadership. Not just words, but for actions.

I can't imagine a scenario where this was not laid out to Melo over the summer. We are not privy to conversations he might have had in Chicago or with Phil but the knick turnaround could not have been all that expected given we actually downgraded our Center and the upgrade a PG was slight at best.

There is plenty of disappointments but we are not talking about Grunwald cowtoeing to Dolan, or Woodson who was our "Defensive coach" and gets the gig and basically goes with what we have. This year we are not switching on defense. Last year they did not execute and this year we are not doing it and read they don't like it. Phuch that, this system and coach will be around longer than most of this roster will be.

Im not promoting a "Melo Love" here but a logical scenario based on Phil's history and the experience he had breaking Jordan and Kobe. These guys were hard headed ego maniacs who resisted change. Remember when Kobe was "Uncoachable" and basically Phil had given up? Phil threw this cat under the bus in a book, but came back and they patched it up. Why? Cuz it was true and Kobe owned it.

What you or I don't know is will Melo own it?
Own it and you can enjoy the benefits.
Reject it and live with the label.

Jim Boeheim has been quiet these days!

Phil knows the NBA. Im pretty sure he was aware that the roster he was fielding had a brutal downside and you better believe that during the months of chatter he and Dolan were talking that the scenario happening right now was a possibility

Let's do as EnySpree said and get the Kobe trade completed on December 15th

It's long overdue and has been on the verge of happening for a while now

Put Melo and Kobe together and let's get busy, we need the two of them

On this team and lead together, Kobe is locked in right now

Kobe Bryant called his Los Angeles Lakers' teammates "soft" during a 5-on-5 scrimmage on Thursday. The practice was the first by Bryant in several weeks.

Byron Scott has held Bryant out of most practices and shootarounds this season.

"You m-----f------ are soft like Charmin in this m-----f-----," said Bryant. "God damn, is this the type of s--- that's going on in these practices? Now I see why we've lost 20 f---ing games. We're soft like Charmin. We're soft like s---."

Bryant passed Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak and said, "I'm supposed to practice and get better, Mitch. I'm supposed to practice and get better. These m-----f------ ain't doing s--- for me."

I would rather have melo minus THJ, JR, and Shump, anyday of the week, they are 3 of dumbest players in the league, by far.

Our point guards don't penetrate even if their kids lives depended on it. I got 7 footers taking 18 foot jump shots only.

Lets fixed those main problems, then get back to melo and amare

knicks1248 wrote:Why is it when we do bad, it points to melo, but when we do good it points to the coach. We don't have sg's, none, zippo, nada, jack sht.

I would rather have melo minus THJ, JR, and Shump, anyday of the week, they are 3 of dumbest players in the league, by far.

Our point guards don't penetrate even if their kids lives depended on it. I got 7 footers taking 18 foot jump shots only.

Lets fixed those main problems, then get back to melo and amare

All that matters is that Phil likely agrees with you. I doubt that he's concerned with Melo when it's so obvious he will have to improve the rest of the team if this team is ever going to be a contender. This is the 2nd season we've gotten poor production from the SG/SF spot and I think Phil will be looking at that issue along with the PG and C spot. In the end he's in a good position because he has options going forward and isn't really stuck like we've been in the past with guys that can't cut it. I trust that regardless of how things have transpired so far this season, Phil knows good players and will be looking at guys who can really play on both ends and in a team oriented system.

I see Melo as part of a new core, but Phil hasn't seemed to have given up on Melo the way some have. I think Phil has gotten a better handle on Melo's game and that will inform his choices going forward. I think it's extremely difficult to build a title team and it won't happen over night. Not when you're starting with so much roster needing to be improved. I think Phil is looking at Melo as being a piece that can help jump start the process of rebuilding so he's not starting at zero. Phil's likely thinking a couple of FA's and a good draft pick is not bad on top of already having Melo and Jose as a solid backup for the next few years.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Why is it when we do bad, it points to melo, but when we do good it points to the coach. We don't have sg's, none, zippo, nada, jack sht.

I would rather have melo minus THJ, JR, and Shump, anyday of the week, they are 3 of dumbest players in the league, by far.

Our point guards don't penetrate even if their kids lives depended on it. I got 7 footers taking 18 foot jump shots only.

Lets fixed those main problems, then get back to melo and amare

Most fans will blame the hyped star who was built up as a savior, opted out and resigned for a boatload of money.
Its a generic reation as blame must be assigned and its easy to blame him.

If you bought a league pass for $200 to watch them from out of town, it make you angry.
If you sacrified a vacation to buy season tickets, it make you angry.
If you bought tickets to scalp or offset costs. your angry.
If you don't hve a life, your angry.

You're too sharp to only attribute sentiment about Melo to a generic tendency amongst fans to tear down highly paid stars when they don't deliver the goods.

That does exist naturally, but every player has their own characteristics. Melo has many specific character traits that contribute to fan discontent. It is not just a generic phenomenon. Melo has contributed greatly to the perception many have of him.

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Why is it when we do bad, it points to melo, but when we do good it points to the coach. We don't have sg's, none, zippo, nada, jack sht.

I would rather have melo minus THJ, JR, and Shump, anyday of the week, they are 3 of dumbest players in the league, by far.

Our point guards don't penetrate even if their kids lives depended on it. I got 7 footers taking 18 foot jump shots only.

Lets fixed those main problems, then get back to melo and amare

Most fans will blame the hyped star who was built up as a savior, opted out and resigned for a boatload of money.
Its a generic reation as blame must be assigned and its easy to blame him.

If you bought a league pass for $200 to watch them from out of town, it make you angry.
If you sacrified a vacation to buy season tickets, it make you angry.
If you bought tickets to scalp or offset costs. your angry.
If you don't hve a life, your angry.

You're too sharp to only attribute sentiment about Melo to a generic tendency amongst fans to tear down highly paid stars when they don't deliver the goods.

That does exist naturally, but every player has their own characteristics. Melo has many specific character traits that contribute to fan discontent. It is not just a generic phenomenon. Melo has contributed greatly to the perception many have of him.

Why do you continue to pretend the majority of Knick fans hate Melo? You don't like him, fine, but don't be lying and pretending you speak for everyone? Just like When Ewing used to get blasted back in the day for being selfish and not closing games in the clutch, and for teammates not liking him, the critics are always louder, but the supporters and the neutral folk are in the majority.

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Why is it when we do bad, it points to melo, but when we do good it points to the coach. We don't have sg's, none, zippo, nada, jack sht.

I would rather have melo minus THJ, JR, and Shump, anyday of the week, they are 3 of dumbest players in the league, by far.

Our point guards don't penetrate even if their kids lives depended on it. I got 7 footers taking 18 foot jump shots only.

Lets fixed those main problems, then get back to melo and amare

Most fans will blame the hyped star who was built up as a savior, opted out and resigned for a boatload of money.
Its a generic reation as blame must be assigned and its easy to blame him.

If you bought a league pass for $200 to watch them from out of town, it make you angry.
If you sacrified a vacation to buy season tickets, it make you angry.
If you bought tickets to scalp or offset costs. your angry.
If you don't hve a life, your angry.

You're too sharp to only attribute sentiment about Melo to a generic tendency amongst fans to tear down highly paid stars when they don't deliver the goods.

That does exist naturally, but every player has their own characteristics. Melo has many specific character traits that contribute to fan discontent. It is not just a generic phenomenon. Melo has contributed greatly to the perception many have of him.

Why do you continue to pretend the majority of Knick fans hate Melo? You don't like him, fine, but don't be lying and pretending you speak for everyone? Just like When Ewing used to get blasted back in the day for being selfish and not closing games in the clutch, and for teammates not liking him, the critics are always louder, but the supporters and the neutral folk are in the majority.

Children Love Melo!!!! He is their friend!!!!
My son wore a Ewing jersey. I would sound like Homey D. Clown in Rant mode to dispel his hero that Ewing was a selfish player who was concerned with his max money, ego, and empty promises!!!!!

EWing ran off Nelson because his statistics as a rebounder starting a fast break would reduce his touches. Nelson wanted him to be a defensive player and rebounder. Ewing knew his biggest contract would be from the knicks!

Im not comapring the two as Ewing and THE REST OF THE TEAM made good playoff runs, finished either first or second and battled Indy, Heat, or the Bulls in a tough era.

No, melo is not a 7 foot center! Ewing was usually top 5 at his position in an era of big men. Melo is top 5 SF in his era. At his position. Not worthy of Mooby worship, but if can be converted a good piece on a good team.

We are not a good team!

Splat wrote:

The only thing I'd amend there Triple is the roster given to MDA. I'm no fan of Mike's, but the one thing I cannot fault him for is how this franchise didn't provide him with one single competent PG his whole time here. Perhaps that is what MDA got for not trying to utilize Marbury when Stephon seemed to have brought to camp his best attitude (for him). But after that it was disastrous to the point the org actually let MDA start a season with Toney as the PG. That's crazy for a coach wholly dependent on having a PG to run his offense. Small historical amendment to an otherwise on point post.

The gods bestowed a him the greatest gift that was Linsanity!!!!

Marbury was but a cancerous tumor. His attitude was not betrayed, he was asked what any GM would ask a star player which was to come to camp in shape and be ready to play. What would expect of a max player.

Marbury was showcased and nobody pursued him. When he was finally granted his freedom from the dread MDA he sucked in Boston.

MDA was never given a proper team to run his system until Amare got here and lead by him, the team was 4 games above .500 until Dolan undermined Walsh and left the cupboard empty for MDA to produce a miracle. Non was to be had. Marbury was exiled to China where he is bronzed in glory!!!!!

Linsanity was not enough to save the team from the clutches of Evil who returned from his injury and banish the team to mediocrty. Yes, the one with the velvet headband who many worship. Some call him Melo, others the financial "succubus"!

With a new hope Moses returns to guide melo to a higher plane. As Yoda did with Luke, the process is not without pain. Nothing gained worthy is without a price.