[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

SCORING THE BALL IS THE PROBLEM for the Knicks, not defense
Author Thread
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/14/2014  12:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2014  12:11 PM
After looking at the stat sheets, I realized that we have a problem putting points on the board due to a lot of guys not making shots. We all know that this current roster will never be able to defend and that should be accepted by many of us at least for now. However, we were not counting on Carmelo and many others not to be able to make shots for this many games. We are to do a better job rebounding the ball (361 Knicks-------372 opposition), but most of all, our boys need to find a way to score the ball. Guys have to help one another out by setting picks, and that will help create space for uncontested jumpers. Defensively, we are forcing a lot of turnovers (122 by the opposing teams) and we only turned it over (109 times). That is not bad.

If Carmelo can continue to improve from our last game, and others can find the range (THJ, the Smith brothers, Larkins, etc) we will win a lot more games then expected.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
AUTOADVERT
Splat
Posts: 23774
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2014
Member: #5862

11/14/2014  12:20 PM
True, our defense is elite.
I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/14/2014  12:41 PM
Splat wrote:True, our defense is elite.

Our defense is garbage; but you missed where I said it is not THE problem.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
sidsanders
Posts: 22541
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/17/2009
Member: #2426

11/14/2014  12:43 PM
cant they both be problems? scoring more wont fix defensive lapses. playing better d will mask the bad o a bit. both need work/help
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/14/2014  12:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2014  12:53 PM
sidsanders wrote:cant they both be problems? scoring more wont fix defensive lapses. playing better d will mask the bad o a bit. both need work/help

Who is going to play defense with this roster? Have you ever watched THJ, Amare, The Smith brothers, and others play defense? We don't have player who is considered a two-way player on this roster.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
Splat
Posts: 23774
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2014
Member: #5862

11/14/2014  1:02 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
Splat wrote:True, our defense is elite.

Our defense is garbage; but you missed where I said it is not THE problem.

yeah yeah we know

I was the one who said over a week ago the only hope for this team this season is to outscore people. That's not looking so good right now.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
sidsanders
Posts: 22541
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/17/2009
Member: #2426

11/14/2014  1:47 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
sidsanders wrote:cant they both be problems? scoring more wont fix defensive lapses. playing better d will mask the bad o a bit. both need work/help

Who is going to play defense with this roster? Have you ever watched THJ, Amare, The Smith brothers, and others play defense? We don't have player who is considered a two-way player on this roster.

was i not clear? this team needs help in all areas.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
newyorker4ever
Posts: 26515
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/19/2014
Member: #5816

11/14/2014  2:23 PM
Melo is off right now and once he gets his shot/confidence back this team will look a lot better.
knicks1248
Posts: 42059
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
11/14/2014  2:27 PM
most teams get atleast 18 to 24 free points from the line, we get 8 to 12..thats where the 10 pts is lost at..
ES
blkexec
Posts: 28347
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
11/14/2014  2:35 PM
Correct me if im wrong but the triangle is not designed to out score you. MDA system is. The triangle is designed for a defensive team that needs some offensive structure. Since we have low basketball iq....it will take this team all season to learn how to be affective on offense. And the only way melo can take over is if he plays iso bully ball. The goal is not to win games. Its to teach melo the triangle and see whos worth keeping for next year. Plus give Fisher a chance to get his feet wet. Anything else is icing on a cake.
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/14/2014  3:01 PM
blkexec wrote:Correct me if im wrong but the triangle is not designed to out score you. MDA system is. The triangle is designed for a defensive team that needs some offensive structure. Since we have low basketball iq....it will take this team all season to learn how to be affective on offense. And the only way melo can take over is if he plays iso bully ball. The goal is not to win games. Its to teach melo the triangle and see whos worth keeping for next year. Plus give Fisher a chance to get his feet wet. Anything else is icing on a cake.

Excuse me? Jordan's team was one of the most efficient teams scoring the ball in the league. Kobe/Shaquille's team was not so bad at it eighter. They were good defensive teams, but they had excellent shooters to surround the superstars.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/14/2014  3:32 PM
SCORING THE BALL IS THE PROBLEM for the Knicks, not defense

Wait til Calderon comes back
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/14/2014  4:18 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
SCORING THE BALL IS THE PROBLEM for the Knicks, not defense

Wait til Calderon comes back

I can't wait to see how he fits in the puzzle. Can he spread the floor? Will the offense operates better? One thing is for sure, he is not going to be able to make shots for guy who are in a slump. When is he scheduled to return?

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/14/2014  4:23 PM
How about a trade with Utah for Steve Novak? We need a catch and shoot player to stretch the court. He is not being used in Utah, maybe they will be willing to let him go
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
SJUknicksfan
Posts: 20149
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/23/2013
Member: #5665

11/14/2014  5:12 PM
Trade JR for Jimmer Fredette.
Splat
Posts: 23774
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2014
Member: #5862

11/14/2014  5:19 PM
SJUknicksfan wrote:Trade JR for Jimmer Fredette.

Sure, it's got two legs and a brain.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
RonRon
Posts: 25531
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
11/14/2014  5:26 PM
blkexec wrote:Correct me if im wrong but the triangle is not designed to out score you. MDA system is. The triangle is designed for a defensive team that needs some offensive structure. Since we have low basketball iq....it will take this team all season to learn how to be affective on offense. And the only way melo can take over is if he plays iso bully ball. The goal is not to win games. Its to teach melo the triangle and see whos worth keeping for next year. Plus give Fisher a chance to get his feet wet. Anything else is icing on a cake.


Fully Agree with b1kexec

I guess your anaylsis is correct, because I cannot see why we MUST learn to fully impliment the Triangle this season while majority of these players will not even return
Look at Steve Kerr, he isn't fully utilizing the Triangle, but using part of the philosophies in addition to everything he has learned throughout the years as a former player/shooter, with Phil Jackson, and Poppavich, and as the supervisor to Mike Dantoni, who's OFFENSE philosophy has been adapted to most of todays NBA teams, including The Spurs

Point is, why LIMIT ourselves to ONE system, without a post presence, high IQ players, and versatile talents that can both initiate and offense through post ups and facilitate/pass?
We have players that fit the PnR system and if we are trying to win games, we should fully utilize the strengths of our roster, not look to impliment a system with players that lack the talent to execute the system and will not be part of our future
I understand there is a bit of everything in The Triangle and it is a good system however

1- It takes time to fully to fully understand it and execute it
2- We don't have the the players to execute the system
3- Majority of our players that are currently on our roster will not be part of our roster by next season
4- We clearly do not have the High IQ to think/react/and move as a unit, in addition to the post presence that we need that can initiate our OFF by BOTH POST UP and Facilitate (with double teams) at a efficient rate (the reason why we targeted Gasol from the start)
5- It is the strength of our roster right now, to run PnR for shooters to space the floor and a speedy/quick PG in Larkin, and finishers in STAT, with BIGS that can pick and pop or roll to the basket for dunks that they have been running throughout their entire careers as players
6- Winning has effects on trade value for players, increases our chances in attracting future talents over to NYK, would generate more income if we make play offs, and fixes all issues that we currently have
7- Look at Golden State and Kerr, they do not fully use the Triangle and they put players in a position to succeed, while we are doing the complete opposite

NixLuva, please don't say I don't understand the Triangle, Golden State, Kerr, Curry, Thompson, and the GS roster are not fully using the Triangle either and they are playing the best basketball ever...
Maybe this was part of the reason why Phil Jackson didn't want to pay Kerr more than he offered Fisher, in addition to the probability that Fisher can attract some of OKC's talents including Durant in the future
Steve Kerr has always stated that although The Triangle was a very good system, the philosophies and systems he learned throughout his entire career as a player, GM, analyst, and using it with the strenghts of the roster


By winning more games, we raise the value of these players, in addition to trade values, and attracting future talents to come to NYK while taking less money (we have the highest tax rate and cost of expense/living, with a media that has a multiplied effect on WINNING and LOSING)

I guess, no one will say anything if we are winning, but we are not, and we do not look like a very promising team at the moment, without many future assets to use, many positions needed to fill, limited cap space to use with CA and Calderon making 30m of the cap space, our need to attract future STAR's, B+ players, vet min players, and talents at UNDER their values are needed

RonRon
Posts: 25531
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
11/14/2014  5:34 PM
Incentives to make up for the TAX rate in NYC and Cost of Living Expense
================================================================================

I wonder how much did Mike Woodson get for "The Mike Woodson Show" and currently "NOTHING BUT THE KNICK's", instead of "The Derek Fisher Show", in addition to the players getting to be in the show, and "The Begginings"
I like how Fisher, preferred NOT to use his name for the show, and have much more delayed/lagged shows versus when Mike Woodson did it, helping opponents scout how clueless our coaching staff and Woodson's philosophy was
It is a bit different this year and it doesn't give as much information that our opponents can use against us
Does Fisher get paid more, along with the guests on the show or if it is part of the 5m contract and if players/guests'/Phil Jackson/the players on the roster can get more $$$ by doing the show, to make up for what they make on the court

Luckily, Dolan owns his own TV network and he can use this as a loophole in addition to his business connects to help players generate more income off the court as an incentive
Although in NYK, we are the highest taxed (not sure if Toronto is more) but surely if you add in the cost of living with property/rent, it makes a difference, in the end it is a busisness
With the same theory, Ariza signed with Houston instead of staying in Washington because of the no STATE tax, although Washington could have offered him more money, like 12m per year and an extra year if they truly thought he was a big part of their success last season
So if these players do make more money with these shows then we might have a chance to lure some talents especially if we show we can be contenders by WINNING in the near future

We need to attract both ALL STAR talents and role players to come to NYK, WINNING helps us lure talents, especially if we need them to take less on their contracts, we need to make up for their salaries in other ways
ALL STAR talents take a big risk/reward if we are able to win, the big names could generate much more income in endorsements, while role players sacrifice a lot more with the tax they pay and scrutiny with media
Maybe Dolan can offer free rent or other luxury condos at a huge discount in addition to other ways to generate more income with these TV shows, etc

These all are TAX write offs for Dolan, including when we hired Hakeem to come work with The Knick's last year (basically with CA so CA didn't have to pay out of his own pocket...
We also should hire more trainers/better medical staff/ nutritionist and cooks, and development coaches that are extensions of the system that can connect/develop the our players

Especially for next season, where we will fully have an entire new rotation of players to help their development along with making up the salaries of their contracts

While Rasheed Wallace with the vets were a huge impact for CA, JR Smith, and the development of Copeland
Why not bring former players like him that have the skill set, leadership qualities, and respect from the players

Former players that could be great development coaches,

Wallace's abilities/training regime, has both old school POST up abilities, HIGH POST, POST UP AND FACILTIATING, and stretch 4 skills that are ideal in todays system

Shane Battier for DEF and he practice with Lebron and the Heat, so he can be a scout and knows some of the Tendancies of former Heat players and Lebron if we are serious about contending next year

Billups and Ron Harper who were PG's that were ideal to run the Triangle and didn't have the ability to penetrate and found balance between scoring/shooting/facilitating/passing
Billups also could be a great shooting coach

Along with some former Triangle players that could relate and help mentor our players, especially when Brian Shaw's contract with Denver ends, he was a big part in the development and OFFENSE of The Indiana Pacer's for a couple years as the lead assistant and they use to run a bit of the Triangle with his guidance, with the post players in David West/Hibbert/Paul George/Granger *prior to his injuries*

Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/14/2014  7:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2014  7:22 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
SCORING THE BALL IS THE PROBLEM for the Knicks, not defense

Wait til Calderon comes back

I can't wait to see how he fits in the puzzle. Can he spread the floor? Will the offense operates better? One thing is for sure, he is not going to be able to make shots for guy who are in a slump. When is he scheduled to return?


OK but notice that I never specified which part of the quote I was replying to
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

11/15/2014  9:45 PM
Poor defenders

Poor defenders play defense with their hands instead of positioning their bodies by banding their knees and move their feet. Bad defenders are always two feet away from their opponents and often go under a screen. Basically, bad defenders are almost everyone on our roster. Currently we have four players (larkins, Shumpert, Acy, and Travis Wear) who are capable of playing decent defense. Early shows a little glimpse of defensive abilities, but he has not seen enough playing time.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
SCORING THE BALL IS THE PROBLEM for the Knicks, not defense

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy