Hey folks, I was going to wait until 10 games, but I have seen enough to assess what we have and where we are as a team. It is unclear if this team is tanking on the sly, but here it goes:

Melo - His overall numbers look fine. His 4th qtrs have improved with the Fish plan. He still isos too much and forces too many shots and once in shot mode, refuses to usually pass the ball out of double teams. On the other side, when teammates are missing so many open shots, you can see why he might prefer to shoot it himself. Should flourish when the system is in a mid to high gear, hopefully by mid-season. For a star to superstar, he is not getting the calls he deserves and gets wacked often. Defense has been slightly better.

JR - Not fitting well in the triangle, holds the ball too much and over dribbles into trouble. His asst to TO ratio is basically 1 to 1, not good. Sloppy passes, inconsistent shots, not attacking the basket.

Amare - Not being used properly, will do better with Calderon. Needs better inbound/outbound ball movement. Been more aggressive, rebounds have improved, but defense is not. Sloppy fouls. Overall, needs close to 28-30 mins a game.

Shump - Not picking up his option is blessing and curse. He is playing very well. More the rookie version, than the past 2 injured passive seasons, but with solid play comes a pricing himself out of NY. Telegraphs some passes and still takes some silly shots, but really can't complain about his overall game. Some sloppy fouls, but aggression is always a nice sight.

Pablo - Not sure if it is the system or age or both, but he isn't a good fit. He doesn't look for his open shot like Jose will, unless he has to. As high a % as he shoots, he should be looking to shot more given the Knicks lack of scoring power. He hasn't been as pesky as in previous years, and is making too many telegraphs TO passes.

Larkin - Pablo 2.0. Sloppy passing, terrible shooting, aggression to the hoop, but not accuracy. Sloppy passes and fouls. Gets beat to the hoop often. Glad we didn't pick up his option.

J Smith - When the system gets going, he will be a solid piece, but is missing way too many open shots, help cost the game tonight. His rebounding and defense has been underwhelming. A good role player if he ticks up his shooting accuracy within the triangle.

Acy - Used in no particular pattern, so hard for him to get a rhythm. Energy guy, Oakley type without a given role at this time. Might not be a long term system fit. Mainly a non-factor so far.

THJR - An even more inconsistent JR Smith. Killing us coming off the bench and doesn't even add defensive relief during his shooting dry spells. Might be better fitted on a running team, than a system team. Love the kid, but he is playing himself out of NY.

Dalembert - He is a very tall Pablo, as in tenacious on D, but not looking for his shot. When he does shoot the wide open shot, it is brutal to watch. An offensive non-factor.

Early - Looks like a rookie. No established role, inconsistent usage and play. Too early to get a feel for him longer term.

Wear - No burn, hard to evaluate other than the Cavs game. Has potential for a bench role.

Cole - I said before the season, he would be bench fodder and with his DNP, has proven as such. When he has played, despite are the rah rah for him on this site, he has not impressed at all, nor demonstrated anything that would suggest he should be the #1 Center. Don't let his rebounds per minute fool you, they have been mostly trash time.

Jose - Incomplete, but should help stabilize the teams up and downs.

Bargani - Incomplete, could be a more accurate Jason Smith role player and his defense against bigs was not terrible last year.

Fish - Despite trying to see what he has, I do not see much difference from Woodson in regards to too many line-up changes. I was originally impressed with his TO calling and play selection after those TOs, but that has not been as sharp during this losing streak. He isn't being hard enough on bad play. Making points through DNPs and taking things in stride too easily. He needs to fire these guys up, if they are trying to win all these close games they are dropping. Unless losing is the plan from PJ and the office.

Knicks overall - Inconsistent, poor energy and offensive sets. Still taking too much time to shoot the ball. ISO is still too big a part of the offense. Defense is appalling. Not winning close games at least as home is inexcusable. Several players are lost in this system change. There have been beautiful sections of b-ball to watch, but then it gets followed by a big run against them and usually the game. They do not attack the basket enough and the foul shot difference is atrocious. The overall team defense is slow and weak, reach fouls and dumb fouls being the norm for most guys. It is hard to watch the team as it is. If they are trying to win, their improvement as games go by is minimum. With Jose and Bargs back in the line-up, should get them even or over the top on some of these games. The system will improve and winning should become more consistent. I can't wait for those days, as these days are hard on the eyes.

Let's go Knicks! Go Ny go NY go!

Great assessment. When are Calderon and Bargnani returning? I can't wait to see what this team will look like with those two.

Great summary, thanks! As things stand do you expect player movement in December ? If not what would be your predicted win-loss by seasons end ?

Fear not- Phil said he was giving the players until December (coincidentally thats when drafted players, and players who signed in the offseason) can be traded for, before he starts listing the 'learners' and 'not-learners', and shipping the non-learners out.

Good post NyStateofMind...

I may be one of the few Larkin fans on this site. I don't think this is the right system for him but I do see him trying to get guys in the right position and actually running the offense.

To me, Acy is worthless...its great that he hustles, but thats about it. The man has no offensive game and the opponents know this.

Stat and Jr.Smith are frustrating to watch, although I do like the chemistry between JR.SMITH and J.Smith when they are on the floor together.

I thought P.Prigioni would flourish in the offensive system. Pretty disappointed with his play so far. C.Aldrich is another disappointment. Was a fan in College and liked what I saw from him when he got some burn last season.

Thanks Swishfm3, I like giving Larkin a try, but he is more pick and roll or young running team. Neither is what the Knicks are or will be. His height for the NBA is a problem. I like his hustle and usually his composure. But he does make telegraphed passes, is too slow to recover on his TOs, can't attack the basket well, and his open shots are usually outside of his range.

Acy has worth on the 2nd team, once the team gels a bit. But he might not offer anything more than a more polished Greek kid on our D League team. The overall team needs to stop making lazy passes and lazy fouls. When have we seen so many fouled outs on the Knicks? I admire hustle, but not sloppy low IQ defense.

Last night, all those late open misses by Jason Smith, were a killer to momentum. He finished I believe 5 for 12, but most of those misses happened when it counted most. Like a 4th quarter Melo from last season. THJR was terrible. JR Smith is not attacking the basket. Dalembert can't score, Acy barely does. Amare used with no pattern. Prigs is passive. The bright spots for the most part has been Shump. Playing with aggression and attitude again, but needs to watch the fouls and borderline tech actions. I hope Jose and Bargs put this team over the losing hump and think they will. It is hard to be consistent when your floor general is out. This foul shot thing is insane, clear that up and the current team wins most of these games and attach the basket more.

The JR to Smith chemistry is becoming predictable, and you can see defenses adjusting. And if Jason is just going to miss the open shot, what is the point in guarding him? Yes, good team chemistry and high IQ, can be just as strong as upper level talent.

I have a faith and am just a passenger on the bus, but Phil has the keys and I trust in that ride.