The official story is 11 rings, Zen Mucky Muck, coming home to NYC, cherry on top of his career, etc.

Now I've said it is possible there is a bit of hustle aspect to all of this. After all, the man extracted an amazing chunk of money out of Dolan for his services. Players get that dough, but management? OK, so he got paid. Draw your own conclusions, but if the one stipulation was he had to retain Melo, then it was a tainted deal.

Of course, the official story is total autonomy. Maybe he has it now (or for now), yet if it came with terms like this then it is suspect as to Phil's motivations.

One of the first things I posted that drew major objections was suggestions the things Phil and Fish say publicly are often going to have political motivations and to believe everything they say so literally is just naive. Boy did people get hot over that. As if everything they say is the whole story and unvarnished truth. As if.

But this morning I felt there was one more angle I had not fully considered, which is Phil may just think he is above it all, i.e. better and smarter than everyone and that he can work miracles.

This is what I call Jackson's potential Hubris Factor. I like the guy, so I'm not predisposed to saying these things, but the more I look at all the angles, the more I think this is very much likely. If Phil really thinks his poop don't stink, he may have the ability to delude himself into thinking he can:

Outfox other GMs

Reinvent Carmelo Anthony

Implement the Triangle System without the players capable of running it

Think about it. All that stuff in pre-season about how he was going to help Melo find another level or two higher in his game and make him the true superstar he was always meant to be, I think Phil was either:

1) Arrogant enough to believe that; or

2) Saying that to justify the signing, because he wanted the job and the paycheck.

Or both. Either way, I think Phil is still a very sharp guy. I respect his intelligence, but I'm not completely comfortable with his motivations. As Triple Threat has pointed out, he really already has one foot out the door. He is that old, Donnie Walsh old, with just as many physical ailments as Walsh had. Five years? We'll see.

But there are other very sharp GMs who know what they are doing. And we signed a non-max player to a max contract and that to me is pretty damn suspect, because either Phil has his own personal financial agenda or his hubris got the better of him and he psyched himself into believing he would transform Melo into his next mini-Kobe Jordan.

Whatever the deal with Phil is, something is off in my estimation as the Melo signing does not add up to either common sense or full autonomy. In other words, Phil was compromised from the very beginning by his own greed or an overestimation of his own abilities.

Dolan: "Phil, I want to hire you. I will pay you a boat load of money ... "Can you make it work with Carmelo? I know that he may not fit into what you want to do, but the dude is a cash cow, my cash cow. I you can make it work with him (at any cost), then the job +60 million is yours. "Deal"?

Phil: "Deal"

Phil probably thought that his zen was strong enough to consume anyone. Was he right? We will find out ...

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its simple and I have stated this many times.

Dolan: "Phil, I want to hire you. I will pay you a boat load of money ... "Can you make it work with Carmelo? I know that he may not fit into what you want to do, but the dude is a cash cow, my cash cow. I you can make it work with him (at any cost), then the job +60 million is yours. "Deal"?

Phil: "Deal"

Phil probably thought that his zen was strong enough to consume anyone. Was he right? We will find out ...

Your version works just fine. Yeah, that's basically it. But that is why I think Phil is really just another form of window dressing in a way. All the razzle dazzle about the new culture, well that will come from Fish ultimately, not Phil. And if Fish has a bad time and Phil loses his juice and Dolan runs of opening gigs for the Eagles, well ......

.......... it is why my basic distrust of this organization remains intact. Phil is not proof of change. The proof is in the pudding. And so far that pudding's predominant ingredient is the butt stupid Melo signing. If this was a real organization, they'd have sense, set limits and let him walk if he doesn't meet them halfway. They gave him everything. No trade clause. Moronic.

Doesn't pass the smell test. Its still the bad old Knicks already.

I think that many teams would have resigned him to the max if he were theirs.

The no trade clause was disgusting and typical knicks bidding against nobody but themselves.

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

I think that many teams would have resigned him to the max if he were theirs.

The no trade clause was disgusting and typical knicks bidding against nobody but themselves.

We'll never know who else would pay him what, but we do bid against ourselves more than any team I'm aware of. And it stinks that we did it again under a supposedly fresh start. Oink!

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its simple and I have stated this many times.

Dolan: "Phil, I want to hire you. I will pay you a boat load of money ... "Can you make it work with Carmelo? I know that he may not fit into what you want to do, but the dude is a cash cow, my cash cow. I you can make it work with him (at any cost), then the job +60 million is yours. "Deal"?

Phil: "Deal"

Phil probably thought that his zen was strong enough to consume anyone. Was he right? We will find out ...

Your version works just fine. Yeah, that's basically it. But that is why I think Phil is really just another form of window dressing in a way. All the razzle dazzle about the new culture, well that will come from Fish ultimately, not Phil. And if Fish has a bad time and Phil loses his juice and Dolan runs of opening gigs for the Eagles, well ......

.......... it is why my basic distrust of this organization remains intact. Phil is not proof of change. The proof is in the pudding. And so far that pudding's predominant ingredient is the butt stupid Melo signing. If this was a real organization, they'd have sense, set limits and let him walk if he doesn't meet them halfway. They gave him everything. No trade clause. Moronic.

Doesn't pass the smell test. Its still the bad old Knicks already.

I think that many teams would have resigned him to the max if he were theirs.

The no trade clause was disgusting and typical knicks bidding against nobody but themselves.

the irony is that he had an opportunity to get paid elsewhere but for something closer to his actual value, which is at most ≃ 90 million. and be a whole lot closer to a ring. he's a self-serving fool.

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its simple and I have stated this many times.

Dolan: "Phil, I want to hire you. I will pay you a boat load of money ... "Can you make it work with Carmelo? I know that he may not fit into what you want to do, but the dude is a cash cow, my cash cow. I you can make it work with him (at any cost), then the job +60 million is yours. "Deal"?

Phil: "Deal"

Phil probably thought that his zen was strong enough to consume anyone. Was he right? We will find out ...

Your version works just fine. Yeah, that's basically it. But that is why I think Phil is really just another form of window dressing in a way. All the razzle dazzle about the new culture, well that will come from Fish ultimately, not Phil. And if Fish has a bad time and Phil loses his juice and Dolan runs of opening gigs for the Eagles, well ......

.......... it is why my basic distrust of this organization remains intact. Phil is not proof of change. The proof is in the pudding. And so far that pudding's predominant ingredient is the butt stupid Melo signing. If this was a real organization, they'd have sense, set limits and let him walk if he doesn't meet them halfway. They gave him everything. No trade clause. Moronic.

Doesn't pass the smell test. Its still the bad old Knicks already.

I think that many teams would have resigned him to the max if he were theirs.

The no trade clause was disgusting and typical knicks bidding against nobody but themselves.

the irony is that he had an opportunity to get paid elsewhere but for something closer to his actual value, which is at most ≃ 90 million. and be a whole lot closer to a ring. he's a self-serving fool.

90 is roughly what he's getting from us minus the 5 year. Perhaps I'm wrong but other than the Lakers who are nowhere close to winning a ring, did anyone else even offer a contract anywhere close? Chicago certainly did not, and rumored to even offered a two year deal, for them to test him out.

i want to state for the record that i used the qualifier "at most"-- which certainly doesn't make it a reasonable amount. i also want to remind you that i have stated his actual and fair value is in the 12-14 million a year range-- an assertion that was greeted with a heaping dose of ridicule and outrage.

looks like he is amply proving my point. too bad jackson didn't get the memo

Splat wrote:But there are other very sharp GMs who know what they are doing. And we signed a non-max player to a max contract and that to me is pretty damn suspect, because either Phil has his own personal financial agenda or his hubris got the better of him and he psyched himself into believing he would transform Melo into his next mini-Kobe Jordan.

Whatever the deal with Phil is, something is off in my estimation as the Melo signing does not add up to either common sense or full autonomy. In other words, Phil was compromised from the very beginning by his own greed or an overestimation of his own abilities.

And when he converses with them to do deals

Don't think they haven't processed some things

As far as Phil's place amongst them as peers

And how he's being compensated without the executive resume to back it up

He can arrogance his way past fans but not NBA executives

He couldn't mindrape Kerr, Fisher, nor Melo

Dagger wrote:How about the hubris factor of all these posters who think they understand the game more than one of the most successful basketball minds in history? Now THAT is hubris in its most comical form.

So regular fans don't have the wherewithal

To suggest drafting Darko ahead of Carmelo was dumb

Or does the Hubris only factor if the individual on the

Other side has chips and rings and whatnot

Last time I checked Joe Dumars has 2 rings

Put a team together to win another, maybe one of the

All-Time best defenders in the NBA, yet he certainly proved

Not to be infallible, nice try at debunking but no can do Dagger

Phil has goofed already a few time on the job, I hope it doesn't continue

Dagger wrote:How about the hubris factor of all these posters who think they understand the game more than one of the most successful basketball minds in history? Now THAT is hubris in its most comical form.

Sure he certainly was a great coach, that dont translate to being an executive.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:How about the hubris factor of all these posters who think they understand the game more than one of the most successful basketball minds in history? Now THAT is hubris in its most comical form.

Don't interrupt them with your sanity, a-hole! lol. I've been somewhat critical with Phil but some of these dudes out of control with the skepticism.

you're not skeptical with the way Melo has played? I know its a long season but us fans take it in small bunches and right now, there is a reason to be skeptical. Our superstar (who I defend when appropriate) who just signed the mega max looks disconnected / disengaged.

Definitely a reason to be "skeptical". We can hope that all ends well and be skeptical at the same time.

Disclaimer: I've only watched 4 of the 7 games played, so maybe Melo is "disengaged". But what I saw last night was a team that froze him out when it mattered most (the entire 4th). Since Melo isn't a ball handler, it's hard for me to expect him to get the ball and to do what he needs to do ala LeBron or Durant or even a Harden. The real issue we have is the same as it was last season; we have no real orchestrater on offense, which causes our offense to stagnate. The best shots we got came from mediocre offensive players that pounded the ball before their shots. I can't count how many times a guy like THJr or JR would dish the ball with 3 seconds left on the shot clock, while holding it for 10 or so seconds.

At the end of the day, the kind of help we need is not going to be found in free agency and so I prefer we lose as many games as possible to get a better draft pick. More than anything, we need a young player that can grow into becoming a star like Kawhi did for the Spurs or Griffin did for the Clippers. Hopefully we're bad enough to get an Emmanuel Mudiay and have him live up to the hype.