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Why can't Iman Shumpert be developed into a starting point guard in the triangle offence?
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colorfl1
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11/5/2014  9:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2014  9:45 PM
It seems that Shumpert in not a true shooting guard and yet his defence has the greatest impact when enforcing the perimeter.
The triangle offence places more emphasis on forwards setting up plays with key secondary passes.
Why can't Iman Shumpert be developed into a starting point guard in the triangle offence?

He can actually be groomed into a weapon against the many speedy point guards in the eastern conference.
Disrupting the ability of opposing point guards to setup team offence appears to be the quickest way to develop long-term into a team capable of progressing in the playoffs.

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GoNyGoNyGo
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11/5/2014  9:43 PM
He is doing well tonight
EnySpree
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11/5/2014  10:07 PM
The word developed is over used. Can they function with shump at point? Yes....but they would need another strong ball handler out there with him. Can't wait to see Calderón get healthy
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dk7th
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11/5/2014  10:07 PM
colorfl1 wrote:It seems that Shumpert in not a true shooting guard and yet his defence has the greatest impact when enforcing the perimeter.
The triangle offence places more emphasis on forwards setting up plays with key secondary passes.
Why can't Iman Shumpert be developed into a starting point guard in the triangle offence?

He can actually be groomed into a weapon against the many speedy point guards in the eastern conference.
Disrupting the ability of opposing point guards to setup team offence appears to be the quickest way to develop long-term into a team capable of progressing in the playoffs.

he needs to be able to push the ball and get past defenders from three-quarter court on. he doesn't have the ball ahndlng skill to do that. god forbid he faces any sort of press.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Splat
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11/5/2014  10:12 PM
Pablo and Jose down. Crack Baby toddling. Shump handling sometimes is going to be better for the time being.
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StarksEwing1
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11/6/2014  8:29 AM
Im a big Shump fan but his problem has always been consistency. He'll ave a couple goodfensive nights and then he'll disappear for a long stretch
Splat
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11/6/2014  10:46 AM
One thing I'm remembering now is Woodson wouldn't stop calling him Rook after Shump's first season. Woodson had some serious issues to do that. Shump's head got messed up along the way and he may be straightening himself out now, but that kind of unprofessional, disrespectful nonsense he had to go through with Woodson sure didn't help.
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BRIGGS
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11/6/2014  11:57 AM
The way Shumpert is playing right now--if he keeps it up--it will cost the Knicks around 7mm to retain him.
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gunsnewing
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11/6/2014  12:08 PM
BRIGGS wrote:The way Shumpert is playing right now--if he keeps it up--it will cost the Knicks around 7mm to retain him.

$7-10mil if he is even better by the end of the year

RonRon
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11/6/2014  12:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2014  12:52 PM
Iman Shumpert has been the starter despite the talent/depth we had by ALL REGIMES of coaches from Dantoni, Woodson, and now Fisher for a reason
Now lets remember that all 3 coaches have completely different systems/philosohpies

I am sure that there are GM's, coaches, and other teams that have interest in him but are unwilling to trade for him
His potential being a Courtney Lee/Tony Allen type of player, while if he can play PG consistently it would bump him up to an Avery Bradley type player

In his rookie year, he was often used to initiate our DEFENSE, with him harrasing our opponents PG's with his size/length/athleticism/strength, while the other 4 players on the court would play the passing lanes
When playing at his A game on defense, it has a multiplied effect on our DEFENSE, and the steals lead to easy baskets/layups
He brings energy/hustle points that no STATS/NUMBERS's will reflect on with "advanced stats"
In fact for a lot of people that used metrics/numbers to justify the value of a player, Iman is not a very good player
However, he brings a level of intensity that cannot be measured with numbers

Now his rookie injury, robbed him of some speed/quickness/athleticism
After that, playing for Woodson, he played the SF mostly, without PG's that could initiate the OFFENSE with any type of consistency

However, in the Triangle, we can finally see the value that he could bring in a system, where all 4 players dictate the PG play and not the PG himself
In the triangle, there is suppose to options/player movement always open, as it is impossible to fully defend
When we learn how to execute the system effectively, with the addition of the talent needed on both OFF and DEF, Iman's abilities could be multiplied
So YES, I believe he can play the PG in the triangle, mainly because the system itself doesn't require him to facilitate/penetrate in a PnR OFFENSE
As long as the other 4 players can execute the system, know where they are suppose to be, move effectively as a team, players MUST be open

Regardless, he must still work on his handle, along with making the correct plays as a facilitator
This is something where Calderon could help in, in addition to hiring more development coaches such as Ron Harper/Billups etc....

On DEFENSE, it would be best to pair him with at least 1 other G that can match and fit his defensive abilities such as Tenacious *playing SG, if Iman plays PG*

While at F positoins, it could be combinations of talents like KJ McDaniels/ Wesley Matthews/ Danny Green/Gereld Green/Matt Barnes/Shawnee Williams

Yes, we need at least 1 legit shot blocker or rebounder at the C position, preferably 2 to 2.5-3, like a SF that can defend like KJ McDaniels can with his length/athleticism
I tried to pick UFA's but to further my point, you could add in players like Battum at the 3
We can go small with a SF/PF like Shawnee Williams or 2 BIG's like

Josh Smith/Ibaka/Noel *even could play 2 of these PF/C's for speed/quickness/mobility/athleticism over SIZE*
DeANdre Jordan/Asik/Lopez/McGee and Hibbert

however, we likely would be targetting Marc Gsaol, who isn't the best rebounder/shot blocker/defender but is versatile/skilled which fits in with the needs of the Triangle
I do not think he is a max player but a team will pay him max in order to possibly get him
Greg Monroe is a UFA and Hibbert could opt out and become a UFA, while DeANdre Jordan is also a UFA but would not fit the triangle

Monroe is a tweener, not quick enough to defend some PF's, especially the SF/PF's
He also lacks the size/athleticism/strength to defend legit Centers
However, on OFFENSE, he is very skilled, versatile/talented, and efficient

mreinman
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11/6/2014  12:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2014  12:53 PM
Ron Ron, your posts seem to have good content but I imagine that most people skip over them because they are WAY too long.

Can you have some condensed versions and/or highlight a few specific points?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
H1AND1
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11/6/2014  12:56 PM
How about Shumpert simply develops into a consistent NBA caliber starter first?
mreinman
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11/6/2014  12:57 PM
H1AND1 wrote:How about Shumpert simply develops into a consistent NBA caliber starter first?

that would be a good start

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Moonangie
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11/6/2014  12:58 PM
mreinman wrote:Ron Ron, your posts seem to have good content but I imagine that most people skip over them because they are WAY too long.

Can you have some condensed versions and/or highlight a few specific points?

I never get past the first sentence. Homey gots way too much time on his hands. Agree with mr...put a synopsis at the top of your post for us to read. Nobody has time to read the whole thing.

RonRon
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11/6/2014  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2014  1:17 PM
just throwing out possilbe UFA on PF/C and I am sure Phil Jackson has his plan A, B, C, D, E, F

The Hybrid SF/PF's

Thad Young
Millsap
Rudy Gay


2 MAX players

Kevin Love *if they have a horrible season and fail to fit, Lebron could leave and cause a chain reaction*
LaMarcus Aldridge


Monroe, will be seaking a MAX contract, will he get it is another story, the thinking is if if Alec Burkes can get a contract of 50m for 4 years, Monroe will think he deserves much more
Chris Bosh is getting a MAX contract and would be payed nearly 25m-27m a year in the end of his contract
Some other names to throw out there that got paid after their rookie contracts or got large contracts include, Brook Lopez, Al Jefferson, Josh Smih (14m a year, so near max)
However, by signing the qualifing offer and making less this year, he is telling Detroit Pistons and Stan Van Gundy that you either MAX me out or I am choosing my own destination
In order to max him out, Van Gundy likely will have to deal Josh Smith and/or Brandon Jennings *who Van Gundy cannot stand, playing DJ Augistine over him*

Lets not forget he is basically a 20/10 player with 1 steal 1 block that is highfly efficient and has the ability to knock down the 17footer
Now if a team can convince him to take less,

David West *a combo of Marc Gasol and David West, playing a ZBO type role, could be very interesting*
Jordan Hill *team option*

Brandon Bass
Brandon Wright

Boozer *he is a good player but cannot finish games for contenders because of his lack of size/athleticism/DEFENSE/shot blocking ability, but if he is used for the regular season 82 games, for a cost efficient contract, he could be a steal, like 2-3m
KG, yes I still want KG to be our Jason Kidd on the DEFENSIVE end on the bench, vet min steal, I could see him being a poor mans Gasol in the Triangle, with the ability to post up/facilitate
His minutes will need to be monitered but add him with players like Tenacious and the level of intensity would be multiplied

Marc Gasol
Hibbert *player option*
Al Jefferson

Asik
Lopez brothers

DeANdre Jordan

there are a lot of RFA but will just name a few

Triston Thompson
Ernes Kanter
Kyle O'Quinn *a little under the radar and supremely under rated, if they give Tobias a big contract, it is very possible that a team could steal his services*


Rather than overpay for who we may want, I would rather wait it out, and look to pay less in FA
I just don't see these players as players that would take us to the next level if we overpay to get them
Now if we can add 2-3 at a discount, then different story, but to overpay to get these guys, in addition to the contracts of CA and Calderon, I just cannot see us being contenders

Problem is CA has a limit before he starts to go downhill if he didn't already
As talented as CA is, he has many poor habits that will be hard to break
He is who he is at this stage of his career to change most of the habits
If we are looking to penny pinch to not extend Larkin at 1.7m, I do not think we distrubted the $ properly in CA
Instead we are stuck in the middle, *THE WORSE PLACE TO BE IN THE NBA*
We were better off letting him walk or trade him to the WEST *Never would have traded him to The Chicago unless Chicago supremely overpays for his talents and it wasn't going to happen...

Even though CA has a no trade clause, it is very possible that he grows tired of losing and taking the blame as the face of the franchise
He knows he has a time limit before he starts to go downhill, the main reason why he wanted a 5year deal vs taking the chance on short term deal till 2017's NEW CBA kicks in
Houston has the asset's and players that I would look to trade him to and CA could agree, pairing him with Harden and D12 *possibly Ariza who would fit very well with CBA but I would like to ask back*
They still ALL OF THEIR own picks and owns picks of other teams

Sun's have some talent and picks on their roster as well, pairing him with Bledsoe and Morris brothers would fit, especially if Alex Len fully develops at Center with Plumlee as the backup

Why can't Iman Shumpert be developed into a starting point guard in the triangle offence?

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