knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:If the team was only bad all the time then you could understand but that's not been the case. Despite the disappointment of not winning a title, this team has in the last few seasons been near or above it's expected level, with the exception of last season. They have not had a losing record every year.

2010-11 W/L - 42-40 .512 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2011-12 W/L - 36-30 .545 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2012-13 W/L - 54-28 .659 Lost 2nd Rd Playoffs
2013-14 W/L - 37-45 .451 No Playoffs

3 playoffs in the last decade isnt bad? Even in that 4 year sample thats not even good from team proclaimed "win now" if you want your team to ever win something more meaningful.

Thats like me watching the Jets and not admitting they suck, but praising every move made when I know they havent done well in those moves. I'm still a fan though, no one can change that.

The other issue is that we have 2 different things here. There's the expectations based on talent and then there is the actual running of the team which has mostly been dysfunctional and detrimental to the players. My outlook of what I think the team can achieve is based on my assessment of the talent and what I think the coaching SHOULD be able to do if only the make reasonable decisions. I don't think Woody did that last year. This doesn't take into account bad moves by Dolan, which have also effected the team. We can't predict Dolan's decisions. At least this year we have less of a fear of Dolan's interference. I think that makes it a bit easier to assess the team and coaches.

So now back to the current team. Why should we be reading overtly negative things from posters this year? Seems to me that most naysayers are not using realistic expectations and seem to be carrying over dissatisfaction from last season. That is wrong IMO. New regime and quite a few new players. This is a different environment with the new coaches and new system.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:If the team was only bad all the time then you could understand but that's not been the case. Despite the disappointment of not winning a title, this team has in the last few seasons been near or above it's expected level, with the exception of last season. They have not had a losing record every year.

2010-11 W/L - 42-40 .512 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2011-12 W/L - 36-30 .545 Lost 1st Rd Playoffs
2012-13 W/L - 54-28 .659 Lost 2nd Rd Playoffs
2013-14 W/L - 37-45 .451 No Playoffs

3 playoffs in the last decade isnt bad? Even in that 4 year sample thats not even good from team proclaimed "win now" if you want your team to ever win something more meaningful.

Thats like me watching the Jets and not admitting they suck, but praising every move made when I know they havent done well in those moves. I'm still a fan though, no one can change that.

I think you are missing the point of what was to be expected of the team in each year. The previous Knicks teams weren't locks to get to the Conf. Finals every year. In the 54 win season we could say that it became a realistic goal, but not all of the seasons over the last 4 years. Lsat year there's no reason that team should've missed the playoffs. Fans could rightfully be upset about last years performance. I'm always saying keep things in perspective and that's what I mean. This year's team can't be expected to vie for a title but that's no reason not to have a realistic expectation of making the playoffs this year.

I would think that a team placing ship placards over lockers ARE competing for such, which was there ever season minus last year.

nixluva wrote:The other issue is that we have 2 different things here. There's the expectations based on talent and then there is the actual running of the team which has mostly been dysfunctional and detrimental to the players. My outlook of what I think the team can achieve is based on my assessment of the talent and what I think the coaching SHOULD be able to do if only the make reasonable decisions. I don't think Woody did that last year. This doesn't take into account bad moves by Dolan, which have also effected the team. We can't predict Dolan's decisions. At least this year we have less of a fear of Dolan's interference. I think that makes it a bit easier to assess the team and coaches.

Well, my expectation is a regime that has one of the greatest winners will build one here. If he doesnt...he failed, his system is flawed. I expect Phil to build and win a title here.....if he can only build a team that makes the second round...he failed just like the others.

nixluva wrote:So now back to the current team. Why should we be reading overtly negative things from posters this year? Seems to me that most naysayers are not using realistic expectations and seem to be carrying over dissatisfaction from last season. That is wrong IMO. New regime and quite a few new players. This is a different environment with the new coaches and new system.

It's a transition year, the majority of THIS CURRENT team wont be here next season....even some of the new players wont. You should be able to tell that from the moves made.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:Just curious, do you guys honestly believe if the Knicks win that some fans are upset by that? If you answer yes, what makes you any different? It seems both polarizing opinions look to the final score to vent their own issues.

"Where the haters at?" in a regular season win is no different than "I told you so" in a pretty awful loss.

If a poster is truly balanced...neither extreme viewpoint would bother them at all, they'd recognize it as opinion, just like their own and keep it moving.

You and Nix obviously have your own thing going on in terms of back and forth. And while you do post as if you are pissed off all the time for some reason. You do come off as a very fair poster who just calls it how he sees it.

The culture change in NY doesn't just need to happen within the Knicks organization. It needs to happen within the NY fans and media as well. New York is known as one of the hardest places in sports to play in. How does this help our teams that we want to succeed, succeed? Its backwards if you ask me. Presidents, Coaches, Players ask for more money specifically because of the pressure and critique they are going to face for every single decision they make. Negativity doesn't breed success.

Phil got killed for not being able to lure Kerr "his guy" in the off season. When we hired Phil all that was said was how it was going to eventually end badly. Him signing Carmelo for max lead to the belief he doesn't know what he is doing and the Knicks are screwed financially for the next 5yrs. A couple of preseason games in and the triangle doesn't work it was Jordan and Shaq and Kobe who won.

Its one thing when fans and media went after Isiah and Marbury and Melo since they have somewhat of a history. None of them come close to the amount of success that Phil has achieved and when a guy like Phil Jackson can't catch a damn break and be given benefit of the doubt then something is wrong here.

The bottom line for me is I want my team to win something meaningful, and since Phil, the ultimate winner is now here...I expect him to bring the team a title. He'll have everything at his disposal to do so...cap space, some draft picks, his own allure, stability of a coach being here as long as he is.....and five years to run this team as he sees fit.

Anything short of that is a failure.

as far as Nix goes, I'm just pulling his chains...could care less if he says the same thing every year...but I will always note it...lol.