newyorknewyork wrote:

Splat wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:I think we're in a win win situation this year. If the system takes off and the team plays well then GREAT! If the team bombs, we then use our lotto pick to add another piece before FA, GREAT!! No stress or pressure this year, whatever happens, happens. Let's just enjoy the ride!

Sure, but if the system bombs, will it be a judgment on lack of talent incapable of learning a system or a judgment of the system itself?

That is the question that will follow Melo then, because if the wheels come off during this season and he then says fukit and plays hero ball the rest of the season, then you have an overpaid star ego to deal with for the next few years.

Yes, I'd like it to be as simple as you put it, because me likey lottery pix too, but it ain't. If this combusts, Melo Era # 2 could be in trouble if Melo cannot adjust his game, because we are not going to attract Max # 2 if Melo remains in the "Uber talented, he's so gifted I could puke, but um something isn't all there" category.

For Melo to be perceived as a winner, he needs to keep his head in the game all season long despite boneheads like JR or Amare who can't get a system. Melo has to show the ability to change the momentum of games doing things other than chucking the ball. Because if he doesn't, then we're stuck with just another big ego and it makes it harder to build a winning culture or attract the next wave of talent to the club.

After all, Melo is the consummate blah, blah, blah kind of speaker who says a whole lot of nothing and it rarely means a damn thing. Talk is cheap and Melo has talked plenty in the past and not backed up his generic team rah rah blather before. Him shoot, him score. But this is the juncture in his career where he has to prove he's more than that.

All the excuses made that Melo's teammates can't hit the side of a barn, thus Melo must go into hero mode is the biggest load of crap of all time. If he uses that as his excuse this season, there's no hope for this guy. He'll just be another Bob McAdoo. A scoring champion who can't raise the level of his teammates.

Not enough talent? That's the point of this year. To finally eat crow and accept what it takes to rebuild. He said he recognized the need to rebuild. So act like your words mean something Melo. Play the game right regardless of winning or losing and start a new chapter. If he doesn't, then this club is screwed no matter who they get.

The system produced 11 championships. There can be no possible judgement on the system. If it don't work its because of the players.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Splat wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:I think we're in a win win situation this year. If the system takes off and the team plays well then GREAT! If the team bombs, we then use our lotto pick to add another piece before FA, GREAT!! No stress or pressure this year, whatever happens, happens. Let's just enjoy the ride!

Sure, but if the system bombs, will it be a judgment on lack of talent incapable of learning a system or a judgment of the system itself?

That is the question that will follow Melo then, because if the wheels come off during this season and he then says fukit and plays hero ball the rest of the season, then you have an overpaid star ego to deal with for the next few years.

Yes, I'd like it to be as simple as you put it, because me likey lottery pix too, but it ain't. If this combusts, Melo Era # 2 could be in trouble if Melo cannot adjust his game, because we are not going to attract Max # 2 if Melo remains in the "Uber talented, he's so gifted I could puke, but um something isn't all there" category.

For Melo to be perceived as a winner, he needs to keep his head in the game all season long despite boneheads like JR or Amare who can't get a system. Melo has to show the ability to change the momentum of games doing things other than chucking the ball. Because if he doesn't, then we're stuck with just another big ego and it makes it harder to build a winning culture or attract the next wave of talent to the club.

After all, Melo is the consummate blah, blah, blah kind of speaker who says a whole lot of nothing and it rarely means a damn thing. Talk is cheap and Melo has talked plenty in the past and not backed up his generic team rah rah blather before. Him shoot, him score. But this is the juncture in his career where he has to prove he's more than that.

All the excuses made that Melo's teammates can't hit the side of a barn, thus Melo must go into hero mode is the biggest load of crap of all time. If he uses that as his excuse this season, there's no hope for this guy. He'll just be another Bob McAdoo. A scoring champion who can't raise the level of his teammates.

Not enough talent? That's the point of this year. To finally eat crow and accept what it takes to rebuild. He said he recognized the need to rebuild. So act like your words mean something Melo. Play the game right regardless of winning or losing and start a new chapter. If he doesn't, then this club is screwed no matter who they get.

The system produced 11 championships. There can be no possible judgement on the system. If it don't work its because of the players.

It produced 11 championships with some of the best players to ever play them game. It didnt produce a chamipionship without Jordan for a full season. It didnt produce anything when Rambis tried to use in Minny. The fact reamins...without quality talent no system produces anything. This is worst cast Phil has ever been in charge of...the system wont make these guys champions until the players are upgraded.

its true phil had 3 of the best players in our generation but hopefully it works for us too

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Splat wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:I think we're in a win win situation this year. If the system takes off and the team plays well then GREAT! If the team bombs, we then use our lotto pick to add another piece before FA, GREAT!! No stress or pressure this year, whatever happens, happens. Let's just enjoy the ride!

Sure, but if the system bombs, will it be a judgment on lack of talent incapable of learning a system or a judgment of the system itself?

That is the question that will follow Melo then, because if the wheels come off during this season and he then says fukit and plays hero ball the rest of the season, then you have an overpaid star ego to deal with for the next few years.

Yes, I'd like it to be as simple as you put it, because me likey lottery pix too, but it ain't. If this combusts, Melo Era # 2 could be in trouble if Melo cannot adjust his game, because we are not going to attract Max # 2 if Melo remains in the "Uber talented, he's so gifted I could puke, but um something isn't all there" category.

For Melo to be perceived as a winner, he needs to keep his head in the game all season long despite boneheads like JR or Amare who can't get a system. Melo has to show the ability to change the momentum of games doing things other than chucking the ball. Because if he doesn't, then we're stuck with just another big ego and it makes it harder to build a winning culture or attract the next wave of talent to the club.

After all, Melo is the consummate blah, blah, blah kind of speaker who says a whole lot of nothing and it rarely means a damn thing. Talk is cheap and Melo has talked plenty in the past and not backed up his generic team rah rah blather before. Him shoot, him score. But this is the juncture in his career where he has to prove he's more than that.

All the excuses made that Melo's teammates can't hit the side of a barn, thus Melo must go into hero mode is the biggest load of crap of all time. If he uses that as his excuse this season, there's no hope for this guy. He'll just be another Bob McAdoo. A scoring champion who can't raise the level of his teammates.

Not enough talent? That's the point of this year. To finally eat crow and accept what it takes to rebuild. He said he recognized the need to rebuild. So act like your words mean something Melo. Play the game right regardless of winning or losing and start a new chapter. If he doesn't, then this club is screwed no matter who they get.

The system produced 11 championships. There can be no possible judgement on the system. If it don't work its because of the players.

It produced 11 championships with some of the best players to ever play them game. It didnt produce a chamipionship without Jordan for a full season. It didnt produce anything when Rambis tried to use in Minny. The fact reamins...without quality talent no system produces anything. This is worst cast Phil has ever been in charge of...the system wont make these guys champions until the players are upgraded.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Splat wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:I think we're in a win win situation this year. If the system takes off and the team plays well then GREAT! If the team bombs, we then use our lotto pick to add another piece before FA, GREAT!! No stress or pressure this year, whatever happens, happens. Let's just enjoy the ride!

Sure, but if the system bombs, will it be a judgment on lack of talent incapable of learning a system or a judgment of the system itself?

That is the question that will follow Melo then, because if the wheels come off during this season and he then says fukit and plays hero ball the rest of the season, then you have an overpaid star ego to deal with for the next few years.

Yes, I'd like it to be as simple as you put it, because me likey lottery pix too, but it ain't. If this combusts, Melo Era # 2 could be in trouble if Melo cannot adjust his game, because we are not going to attract Max # 2 if Melo remains in the "Uber talented, he's so gifted I could puke, but um something isn't all there" category.

For Melo to be perceived as a winner, he needs to keep his head in the game all season long despite boneheads like JR or Amare who can't get a system. Melo has to show the ability to change the momentum of games doing things other than chucking the ball. Because if he doesn't, then we're stuck with just another big ego and it makes it harder to build a winning culture or attract the next wave of talent to the club.

After all, Melo is the consummate blah, blah, blah kind of speaker who says a whole lot of nothing and it rarely means a damn thing. Talk is cheap and Melo has talked plenty in the past and not backed up his generic team rah rah blather before. Him shoot, him score. But this is the juncture in his career where he has to prove he's more than that.

All the excuses made that Melo's teammates can't hit the side of a barn, thus Melo must go into hero mode is the biggest load of crap of all time. If he uses that as his excuse this season, there's no hope for this guy. He'll just be another Bob McAdoo. A scoring champion who can't raise the level of his teammates.

Not enough talent? That's the point of this year. To finally eat crow and accept what it takes to rebuild. He said he recognized the need to rebuild. So act like your words mean something Melo. Play the game right regardless of winning or losing and start a new chapter. If he doesn't, then this club is screwed no matter who they get.

The system produced 11 championships. There can be no possible judgement on the system. If it don't work its because of the players.

It produced 11 championships with some of the best players to ever play them game. It didnt produce a chamipionship without Jordan for a full season. It didnt produce anything when Rambis tried to use in Minny. The fact reamins...without quality talent no system produces anything. This is worst cast Phil has ever been in charge of...the system wont make these guys champions until the players are upgraded.

The year Jordan was out and the Knicks got the Hubert Davis call the Bulls might have gone onto win.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:That's why we play the games....go knicks

Yep. A lot of doom and gloom based on a preseason game. The season starts on Wednesday.

I personally think the Knicks are going to be a 35 win team like last season but I'm not gloomy about it _at all_. This is a transition year and we have our pick next season.

i feel the best fans are both loyal and truthful. I love the knicks and want them to win every game but to be objective we simply dont have the personell yet. Id rather get a good draft pick develop some guys and clear space for next year

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

EnySpree wrote:That's why we play the games....go knicks

Yep. A lot of doom and gloom based on a preseason game. The season starts on Wednesday.

I personally think the Knicks are going to be a 35 win team like last season but I'm not gloomy about it _at all_. This is a transition year and we have our pick next season.

i feel the best fans are both loyal and truthful. I love the knicks and want them to win every game but to be objective we simply dont have the personell yet. Id rather get a good draft pick develop some guys and clear space for next year

Thirty five wins is less than what last years team accomplished. Calderon is a huge upgrade over Felton and adds offense to the starting line up. Dalembert spells Tyson very well and in the preseason appeared to be a better offensive player. He only has to play in 56 games to get into more than Tyson did last year and there is no drama. I think Acy is a huge upgrade over Tyler and Wear makes sense versus Ellington. Having management and the coaching staff on the same page takes away the dysfunction that hung over the team last year. Also, no Chris Smith. I think the Knicks break the 40 win mark. My guess is 44-46 wins but I think they could surprise and do better. It will be interesting to see what the team looks like once the rotation is tightened up.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Splat wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:I think we're in a win win situation this year. If the system takes off and the team plays well then GREAT! If the team bombs, we then use our lotto pick to add another piece before FA, GREAT!! No stress or pressure this year, whatever happens, happens. Let's just enjoy the ride!

Sure, but if the system bombs, will it be a judgment on lack of talent incapable of learning a system or a judgment of the system itself?

That is the question that will follow Melo then, because if the wheels come off during this season and he then says fukit and plays hero ball the rest of the season, then you have an overpaid star ego to deal with for the next few years.

Yes, I'd like it to be as simple as you put it, because me likey lottery pix too, but it ain't. If this combusts, Melo Era # 2 could be in trouble if Melo cannot adjust his game, because we are not going to attract Max # 2 if Melo remains in the "Uber talented, he's so gifted I could puke, but um something isn't all there" category.

For Melo to be perceived as a winner, he needs to keep his head in the game all season long despite boneheads like JR or Amare who can't get a system. Melo has to show the ability to change the momentum of games doing things other than chucking the ball. Because if he doesn't, then we're stuck with just another big ego and it makes it harder to build a winning culture or attract the next wave of talent to the club.

After all, Melo is the consummate blah, blah, blah kind of speaker who says a whole lot of nothing and it rarely means a damn thing. Talk is cheap and Melo has talked plenty in the past and not backed up his generic team rah rah blather before. Him shoot, him score. But this is the juncture in his career where he has to prove he's more than that.

All the excuses made that Melo's teammates can't hit the side of a barn, thus Melo must go into hero mode is the biggest load of crap of all time. If he uses that as his excuse this season, there's no hope for this guy. He'll just be another Bob McAdoo. A scoring champion who can't raise the level of his teammates.

Not enough talent? That's the point of this year. To finally eat crow and accept what it takes to rebuild. He said he recognized the need to rebuild. So act like your words mean something Melo. Play the game right regardless of winning or losing and start a new chapter. If he doesn't, then this club is screwed no matter who they get.

The system produced 11 championships. There can be no possible judgement on the system. If it don't work its because of the players.

It produced 11 championships with some of the best players to ever play them game. It didnt produce a chamipionship without Jordan for a full season. It didnt produce anything when Rambis tried to use in Minny. The fact reamins...without quality talent no system produces anything. This is worst cast Phil has ever been in charge of...the system wont make these guys champions until the players are upgraded.

I agree though I wasn't really speaking as if we were championship contenders. We don't need to win a championship this yr for it to prove its worth clearly. My point is basically the same thing u said. It comes down to the players. The system can't be at fault.

At the same time Jordan didn't win any championships before the triangle was installed either. Shaq lost in the finals in Orlando and got swept in the playoffs 3 yrs in a row in LA.

knicks1248 wrote:

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Splat wrote:The season is dependent on how this team behaves after those first 10 games, not particularly how well they do out of the gate. They will likely have a losing record after ten games. How they handle that early adversity will be the difference between being a lottery team and and an overachiever.

We don't know how they'll come out of the gate. We can only assume that they will get better as the season progresses but they may not actually lose games even if they play up and down in games. We have to see how they respond. I don't see them as a lottery team. That would take major disfunction like we saw last year and I don't see that happening this time.

You keep telling people they don't get it. What I see is you conflating your enthusiasm for Phil and Fish and the ideal of a new culture and a better system as tantamount to current improvements.

What I don't think you are getting is that is all sugar and spice and oh so nice, but we don't have the personnel to match up to most clubs. Any club with proficient frontline players is going to eat us alive in the paint and we simply will not have the players to stop them. That's just one of many deficiencies we have.

The real bottom line is only Melo would start elsewhere and Jose would only be a starter on a handful of clubs at his age now. Most of our players would get cut from other teams' training camps.

You can buy into the dream, but that dream is a long-term one. Your over the top cheerleading for this current collection of players has been ridiculously imbalanced and overstated.

If Phil handles the cap space well and they draft well and Fish develops the slight amount of long-term talent we have now, then maybe in a year or two this club could be at a place commensurate with your present outlook. At this juncture, you're sounding like you can't help being enthusiastic constitutionally and that is just what you do, but it sure doesn't make you look like a person with much common sense.

There is no dominate team in the east, there's no dominate front line in the league. The league abolish the Center position for that reason alone, because they have so few.

This is perimeter league run by guards, Small forwards and big man who can shoot jumpers. If you have good chemistry, defend a little, rebound, shoot 3's don't turn the ball over,and stay healthy for the most part, you'll be fine.

The race in the east will be the tightest since the 99 lockout, at least for the 1st few months

Idk, I disagree. I cant see the Cavs winning less than 65, but I can see the 8th seed qualifying with a sub-40 win record.

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Splat wrote:

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:I think we're in a win win situation this year. If the system takes off and the team plays well then GREAT! If the team bombs, we then use our lotto pick to add another piece before FA, GREAT!! No stress or pressure this year, whatever happens, happens. Let's just enjoy the ride!

Sure, but if the system bombs, will it be a judgment on lack of talent incapable of learning a system or a judgment of the system itself?

That is the question that will follow Melo then, because if the wheels come off during this season and he then says fukit and plays hero ball the rest of the season, then you have an overpaid star ego to deal with for the next few years.

Yes, I'd like it to be as simple as you put it, because me likey lottery pix too, but it ain't. If this combusts, Melo Era # 2 could be in trouble if Melo cannot adjust his game, because we are not going to attract Max # 2 if Melo remains in the "Uber talented, he's so gifted I could puke, but um something isn't all there" category.

For Melo to be perceived as a winner, he needs to keep his head in the game all season long despite boneheads like JR or Amare who can't get a system. Melo has to show the ability to change the momentum of games doing things other than chucking the ball. Because if he doesn't, then we're stuck with just another big ego and it makes it harder to build a winning culture or attract the next wave of talent to the club.

After all, Melo is the consummate blah, blah, blah kind of speaker who says a whole lot of nothing and it rarely means a damn thing. Talk is cheap and Melo has talked plenty in the past and not backed up his generic team rah rah blather before. Him shoot, him score. But this is the juncture in his career where he has to prove he's more than that.

All the excuses made that Melo's teammates can't hit the side of a barn, thus Melo must go into hero mode is the biggest load of crap of all time. If he uses that as his excuse this season, there's no hope for this guy. He'll just be another Bob McAdoo. A scoring champion who can't raise the level of his teammates.

Not enough talent? That's the point of this year. To finally eat crow and accept what it takes to rebuild. He said he recognized the need to rebuild. So act like your words mean something Melo. Play the game right regardless of winning or losing and start a new chapter. If he doesn't, then this club is screwed no matter who they get.

The system produced 11 championships. There can be no possible judgement on the system. If it don't work its because of the players.

It produced 11 championships with some of the best players to ever play them game. It didnt produce a chamipionship without Jordan for a full season. It didnt produce anything when Rambis tried to use in Minny. The fact reamins...without quality talent no system produces anything. This is worst cast Phil has ever been in charge of...the system wont make these guys champions until the players are upgraded.

I agree though I wasn't really speaking as if we were championship contenders. We don't need to win a championship this yr for it to prove its worth clearly. My point is basically the same thing u said. It comes down to the players. The system can't be at fault.

At the same time Jordan didn't win any championships before the triangle was installed either. Shaq lost in the finals in Orlando and got swept in the playoffs 3 yrs in a row in LA.

You're kinda establishing the basis of my point, these players were on the verge of winning anyway. The system merely provided a stable ground to do so. Nothing wrong in losing to the finalist that far in the rounds, it shows he didnt need the triangle to get there.

So when we add bigs that pass well and wings and guards that love to move without the ball. These players are maximizing there skill sets that already match the triangle. When we start getting consistent production from role players outside of Melo due to the system then we will be in a good place.