Dalembert
Calderon
Shump
Melo
Acy

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/gritty-acy-has-good-chance-to-be-knicks-starting-power-forward

The article cites many of the basic reasons speculated on here by myself and others.

Acy's a classic workhorse PF fit next to Melo. Acy knows his role and fills it.

Acy + Shump = high energy tone for 1st unit D. With Dalembert and more D from Melo, its a competent defensive starting 5 that is enough to compensate for Calderon's inability to contain penetrators.

Bargs is muffing it so Acy has stepped in. I think that is good luck for the team to not to have to start Bargs. Fish is definitely using this as a way to excuse himself from starting Bargs. You can see the political usage of the media already being deployed. They made some puffy comments earlier about how great the expiring vets will be, but they always have their out clauses as the coach.

We need to drop the overly cynical attitude towards everything with this team. It's a new day and sometimes you have good things happen to your team. Fish is one of the best things to happen to this team IMO. He may change his mind and play different players at some point but I think it will always be about BB. He's not beholden to anyone except Melo and that's not really a problem considering he's the best player.

In truth I think Fish could get by starting either Acy, Bargs or Jason and it wouldn't hurt the team that much. I think he really wants to set the tone about defense and he knows he has LOADS of scoring off the bench. There's no need to worry about points. His best defensive group will be able to establish the tone and still be able to score enough to build leads. Then he can let his bench pick up the pace and be more of a scoring unit, but the ability to have a good defensive starting unit that can close out games could be huge.

BRIGGS wrote:
What this does puts poor balance in the roster. Essentially you have three highly inconsistent players on offense to start the game which gives the opponent leeway to key on Melo. I will defintely take my chances with Acy Shumpert and Dalembart shooting the ball. And the next unit--we took the defensive players and put them all in unit 1--so you would have Smith Bargs JR and Hardaway and they all are shooters. Maybe it goes well a few games? but give it time and they will key hard on Melo if that is the starting unit.

That's more predicting than I think any of us can make at this point. If it is going to be a system that works, you will increase the productivity of the first unit and they will all get open looks. If they play the Triangle and make it work, then, NO, teams will not be able to only key in on Melo. They could in the past and the objective is to play a different kind of ball.

I'm not ordering my championship ring and have modest expectations for this year, but you are way to pessimistic IMO.

What you're citing is the general issue with this club for many, many years now, a lack of 2-way players, hence the possibility of a quasi-2nd unit full of offensive players and little defense.

I've considered this already and it is why we may not see a full fledged 2nd unit, but substitutions of 1 or 2 players at a time to keep a mix of defensive players on the floor.

And the point of the Triangle system too is to get even defensive players open looks where they can use their skills to convert.

Naturally, this favors outside shooters generally and why Phil is going to hunt for defenders with an outside shot, but that is why I broke down the offensive contributions this first unit can make. If they play the triangle well, they can convert from all spots on the floor and you'll be happier about it.

The real issue is depth defensively more than offensively and why a 2nd unit may not work as well with the current personnel. But that is why you enforce a defensive culture first and get even the worst defenders to start putting in the effort with the threat of losing minutes otherwise.

nixluva wrote:We need to drop the overly cynical attitude towards everything with this team. It's a new day and sometimes you have good things happen to your team. Fish is one of the best things to happen to this team IMO. He may change his mind and play different players at some point but I think it will always be about BB. He's not beholden to anyone except Melo and that's not really a problem considering he's the best player.

You like playing with gasoline and sparklers, don't you?

jrodmc wrote:

nixluva wrote:We need to drop the overly cynical attitude towards everything with this team. It's a new day and sometimes you have good things happen to your team. Fish is one of the best things to happen to this team IMO. He may change his mind and play different players at some point but I think it will always be about BB. He's not beholden to anyone except Melo and that's not really a problem considering he's the best player.

You like playing with gasoline and sparklers, don't you?

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Splat wrote:Sounds like the lineup I predicted is going to be the starting 5 if this is true.

Dalembert
Calderon
Shump
Melo
Acy

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/gritty-acy-has-good-chance-to-be-knicks-starting-power-forward

The article cites many of the basic reasons speculated on here by myself and others.

Acy's a classic workhorse PF fit next to Melo. Acy knows his role and fills it.

Acy + Shump = high energy tone for 1st unit D. With Dalembert and more D from Melo, its a competent defensive starting 5 that is enough to compensate for Calderon's inability to contain penetrators.

Bargs is muffing it so Acy has stepped in. I think that is good luck for the team to not to have to start Bargs. Fish is definitely using this as a way to excuse himself from starting Bargs. You can see the political usage of the media already being deployed. They made some puffy comments earlier about how great the expiring vets will be, but they always have their out clauses as the coach.

What this does puts poor balance in the roster. Essentially you have three highly inconsistent players on offense to start the game which gives the opponent leeway to key on Melo. I will defintely take my chances with Acy Shumpert and Dalembart shooting the ball. And the next unit--we took the defensive players and put them all in unit 1--so you would have Smith Bargs JR and Hardaway and they all are shooters. Maybe it goes well a few games? but give it time and they will key hard on Melo if that is the starting unit.

this... they have a gravity metric now in the NBA. It measures how much attention a players gets away from the ball. Its a pretty cool stat because it spells out which player opposing teams target the most. The two guys in the NBA who had the highest score were Melo and Paul George (I honestly forget who was 1 and 2). Last year we saw Melo chased constantly and worn down by the end of games. Now are going to surround him Acy and Dalembert... two guys who are total non entities on offense, and Acy is totally unproven as far as even being a rotation player in the league. Shump is a wildcard but we have seen when he's asked to do too much he's wildy inconsistant at best. Last year Shump had 37 games where he scored five points or less. He had 7 games he didnt score at all.

Hard to see that lineup working for any extended period of time.

It's a obviously a lineup that will live and die on how Shumpert and Acy shoot the ball.

They seem to like what Acy brings to the table on D, and remember, he can also switch with Anthony and play D at the 3 if Melo is having problems. You cannot do this with Smith or Amare. If Acy can actually hit the midrange jumper on a somewhat consistent basis and can give you 7-8 rebounds/game, + give you the toughness, hustle, and D he is known for, he is going to get 25-30 mpg, IMO.

On the other hand, Acy might also be a guy who starts, but gets his minutes adjusted if his shooting is off and we want/need more offense. Jason Smith will get his minutes, whether at the 4 or 5. His jumper is solid and he seems like a smart player who finds ways to compensate for his limited athleticism.

Have to think that there will be a lot of shuffling in the first part of the season as Fisher experiments. We seem to have some frontline flexibility, since Amare and Smith can both get minutes at the 5 if they want to go with a more offensive minded and defensively challenged lineup.

I don't think anyone knows what the starting lineup of the Knicks will be 30 games into the season- just have to hope that everyone plays to their capabilities, and trust that Fisher and Jackson know what they are doing.

Big thing right now is that everyone buys into the offensive scheme and shows some f'n pride and tenacity on the defensive end.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Splat wrote:Sounds like the lineup I predicted is going to be the starting 5 if this is true.

Dalembert
Calderon
Shump
Melo
Acy

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/gritty-acy-has-good-chance-to-be-knicks-starting-power-forward

The article cites many of the basic reasons speculated on here by myself and others.

Acy's a classic workhorse PF fit next to Melo. Acy knows his role and fills it.

Acy + Shump = high energy tone for 1st unit D. With Dalembert and more D from Melo, its a competent defensive starting 5 that is enough to compensate for Calderon's inability to contain penetrators.

Bargs is muffing it so Acy has stepped in. I think that is good luck for the team to not to have to start Bargs. Fish is definitely using this as a way to excuse himself from starting Bargs. You can see the political usage of the media already being deployed. They made some puffy comments earlier about how great the expiring vets will be, but they always have their out clauses as the coach.

What this does puts poor balance in the roster. Essentially you have three highly inconsistent players on offense to start the game which gives the opponent leeway to key on Melo. I will defintely take my chances with Acy Shumpert and Dalembart shooting the ball. And the next unit--we took the defensive players and put them all in unit 1--so you would have Smith Bargs JR and Hardaway and they all are shooters. Maybe it goes well a few games? but give it time and they will key hard on Melo if that is the starting unit.

this... they have a gravity metric now in the NBA. It measures how much attention a players gets away from the ball. Its a pretty cool stat because it spells out which player opposing teams target the most. The two guys in the NBA who had the highest score were Melo and Paul George (I honestly forget who was 1 and 2). Last year we saw Melo chased constantly and worn down by the end of games. Now are going to surround him Acy and Dalembert... two guys who are total non entities on offense, and Acy is totally unproven as far as even being a rotation player in the league. Shump is a wildcard but we have seen when he's asked to do too much he's wildy inconsistant at best. Last year Shump had 37 games where he scored five points or less. He had 7 games he didnt score at all.

Hard to see that lineup working for any extended period of time.

One thing about this lineup is it has many similarities to the lineup in 2012 that gave us one of the hottest starts of all time. Melo, Felton, Kidd, Chandler, and Brewer just had a chemistry like non other, and maybe with a few more games together this team can build that chemistry. That being said, the lack of scoring and balance could be a concern.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Splat wrote:Sounds like the lineup I predicted is going to be the starting 5 if this is true.

Dalembert
Calderon
Shump
Melo
Acy

http://nypost.com/2014/10/15/gritty-acy-has-good-chance-to-be-knicks-starting-power-forward

The article cites many of the basic reasons speculated on here by myself and others.

Acy's a classic workhorse PF fit next to Melo. Acy knows his role and fills it.

Acy + Shump = high energy tone for 1st unit D. With Dalembert and more D from Melo, its a competent defensive starting 5 that is enough to compensate for Calderon's inability to contain penetrators.

Bargs is muffing it so Acy has stepped in. I think that is good luck for the team to not to have to start Bargs. Fish is definitely using this as a way to excuse himself from starting Bargs. You can see the political usage of the media already being deployed. They made some puffy comments earlier about how great the expiring vets will be, but they always have their out clauses as the coach.

What this does puts poor balance in the roster. Essentially you have three highly inconsistent players on offense to start the game which gives the opponent leeway to key on Melo. I will defintely take my chances with Acy Shumpert and Dalembart shooting the ball. And the next unit--we took the defensive players and put them all in unit 1--so you would have Smith Bargs JR and Hardaway and they all are shooters. Maybe it goes well a few games? but give it time and they will key hard on Melo if that is the starting unit.

this... they have a gravity metric now in the NBA. It measures how much attention a players gets away from the ball. Its a pretty cool stat because it spells out which player opposing teams target the most. The two guys in the NBA who had the highest score were Melo and Paul George (I honestly forget who was 1 and 2). Last year we saw Melo chased constantly and worn down by the end of games. Now are going to surround him Acy and Dalembert... two guys who are total non entities on offense, and Acy is totally unproven as far as even being a rotation player in the league. Shump is a wildcard but we have seen when he's asked to do too much he's wildy inconsistant at best. Last year Shump had 37 games where he scored five points or less. He had 7 games he didnt score at all.

Hard to see that lineup working for any extended period of time.

You're comparing the new team to an old iso-metric, right? If opponents this season replicate that melo-centric gravity, that should open up Acy and SamD at point blank around the basket, right? It would also include getting Shump moving and grooving, rather than the oft-mentioned sitting in the corner waiting on Iso sets in order to launch those patented my knees are cold today threes.

Add in a PG who can shoot and does not suffer from any shooting bashfulness.

Homery butter flavored optimism, I know...