FireWoodson wrote:Dude, all that you wrote up there -- guys growing in confidence, guys becoming better shooters, better defenders, scrappy bench guys doing their part... -- well, EVERY team in the NBA can claim that.

Cool to look for positives, but what you looked at is what all teams hope for. The problem is we still have some very noticeable negatives. Where is the positive in Bargnani's game? How about JR? See him revert to his old dribble and shoot self last night? Is that part of the famous triangle? We can only hope with fingers crossed that Amar'e can stay healthy. You really think he will? Fisher? How can we judge anything about his coaching prowess? I can say already he is making a bad move in relegating Pablo to waterboy. You think Barry Larkin's kid should get more playing time than Pablo? I don't....but Coach Fisher does. Not utilizing Pablo hurt Woodson, may hurt Fisher, too.

Only positives I see are Wear and Early. And they really won't count as solid team positives for a few years. OK, Dalembert is showing something and Hardaway is definitely a future All-Star. That's a positive right now, but we really may be in for a year of endless struggling.

He's playing Larkin now when he can afford to. Fish and Phil already know what Pablo can do and he is probably picking up whatever he needs to know about the triangle in practice. The only way he gets buried is if Larkin starts to click, so it is up to Larkin now to take Pablo's reg season minutes or else Pablo will be the # 2 PG. It's pre-season.

We saw Jose, Early, Shump and Melo get great one on one looks and beat their man. Sometimes you'll get catch and shoot or dump off and finish or a PNR ETC. it's all part of it but your base is the Triangle. It's just BASKETBALL!

Our players don't have to be stiffs out there. If you see an advantage then take it. The more this team gets to play in this system together the more they'll figure out ways to score in it. The idea that some if us can't appreciate that we have a base motion offense really shocks me. This is better and still people bitch n moan cuz it's not perfect yet. SMDH

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:Dude, all that you wrote up there -- guys growing in confidence, guys becoming better shooters, better defenders, scrappy bench guys doing their part... -- well, EVERY team in the NBA can claim that.

Cool to look for positives, but what you looked at is what all teams hope for. The problem is we still have some very noticeable negatives. Where is the positive in Bargnani's game? How about JR? See him revert to his old dribble and shoot self last night? Is that part of the famous triangle? We can only hope with fingers crossed that Amar'e can stay healthy. You really think he will? Fisher? How can we judge anything about his coaching prowess? I can say already he is making a bad move in relegating Pablo to waterboy. You think Barry Larkin's kid should get more playing time than Pablo? I don't....but Coach Fisher does. Not utilizing Pablo hurt Woodson, may hurt Fisher, too.

Only positives I see are Wear and Early. And they really won't count as solid team positives for a few years. OK, Dalembert is showing something and Hardaway is definitely a future All-Star. That's a positive right now, but we really may be in for a year of endless struggling.

He's playing Larkin now when he can afford to. Fish and Phil already know what Pablo can do and he is probably picking up whatever he needs to know about the triangle in practice. The only way he gets buried is if Larkin starts to click, so it is up to Larkin now to take Pablo's reg season minutes or else Pablo will be the # 2 PG. It's pre-season.

Agree. Pablo is 37 and he probably isn't a knick after this year. He is one of my favorite guys but he is an old pro and will produce when called on. Also, Melo looked great last night and this offense should help him not wear down as holfresh said. Hardaway looks great. Early looks great and Acy definitely is a rotation player. Dalembert is playing really well and is so low maintenance compared to Tyson. JR did free lance but he was effective doing it. Pretty sure some other very good ball players free lanced every once in awhile in the triangle. Also, JR is saying he will do whatever Fisher wants and Fisher is playing JR. I think Fisher has done a great job. Last night he said they practiced a lot after the first boston loss because they won't have time in November because of the schedule. Fisher has put in a new offense and the defense is different and better. Two games into the preseason not sure what you are looking for. Also, Bargs looked good in the first half of the first game and missed last night because of a hammy.

JR just says whatever pops into his head. It has little to no bearing on his future behavior. Sure, he wants to do well and that means playing team ball so he says whatever sounds right, but he has ADD and he reverts to JRness. If Fish can get him to play in a system, then he will probably be a good coach, because harnessing JR would be some kind of accomplishment.

I didn't like his play last night. We have a couple of other guys who can create their own shots and a couple more who can nail deep open looks, so I don't find the value of JR's bad shot hot streaks some kind of big virtue at this point.

I like Dalembert. He may be undervalued by some so far, but I think the fans will be happy. The Dallas trade was kind of genius. Tyson def was a chemistry issue even if he was 100% correct that Woodson was a buffoon. Tyson was a sulker and often a slacker. He was not leading by example. And Jose for Felton was like handing a sales clerk a bag of dog crap and being given back a delicious slurpee. We're better by some degree for sure, plus no Woodson and no Dolan crap so far.

CrushAlot wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: Bargs looked good in the first half of the first game and missed last night because of a hammy.

Yes, I agree, he did look fine in game 1. Big man who was putting on some nice moves. But the last half of your sentence -- "and missed last night because of a hammy" -- is indicative of who he is and what he will be again this season.

As for Pablo, there was an article in The Post recently that said Pablo is being shopped around. The triangle offense is not point guard-centric, so to carry three would be excessive. The plan would be Calderon, Barry Larkin's kid, and then even a guy like Shumpert running the "point guard" role. Pablo would be superfluous.

Pablo would be a great pick up for a team that is going to be in the conference finals. He doesn't make mistakes but his age makes him expendable for the Knicks especially with Calderon. I am far from sold on Larkin. Aside from his speed he hasn't impressed me so far. I am hoping it is a combination of rust, adjusting and getting into a rythm.

For now, Larkin looks like a really fast crack baby, not all there. But we have to find out, because if he can pull it together, it adds a much different look to the 2nd unit. Jose and Pablo don't change things up that much. I've always been a big fan of 2nd units that apply big pressure.

It was something the Knicks did under Pitino and they won quite a few games because of it. That was full court pressure, not something we'll likely see, but tempo on offense counts too. Stun and gun could break open games in the third quarter in a matter of minutes with a 2nd unit that really pushes it.

So we really have to be sure about Larkin, because if he can play, putting him in 5th gear with sprinters like Early, Hardaway, JR on the floor could be crazy good sometimes.

yellowboy90 wrote:People really seem to go overboard from one game to the next. Yesterday was a decent step in the right direction.

Guys watch games with an opinion that will never waiver. So they aren't going to take the game for what it is. They are going to harp at every I told you so then disappear when they are wrong.

Also in a thread called positives did you really think we would get positive posts? That that for what it is. People love to make others miserable

CrushAlot wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: Bargs looked good in the first half of the first game and missed last night because of a hammy.

Yes, I agree, he did look fine in game 1. Big man who was putting on some nice moves. But the last half of your sentence -- "and missed last night because of a hammy" -- is indicative of who he is and what he will be again this season.

As for Pablo, there was an article in The Post recently that said Pablo is being shopped around. The triangle offense is not point guard-centric, so to carry three would be excessive. The plan would be Calderon, Barry Larkin's kid, and then even a guy like Shumpert running the "point guard" role. Pablo would be superfluous.

Pablo would be a great pick up for a team that is going to be in the conference finals. He doesn't make mistakes but his age makes him expendable for the Knicks especially with Calderon. I am far from sold on Larkin. Aside from his speed he hasn't impressed me so far. I am hoping it is a combination of rust, adjusting and getting into a rythm.

I agree. I mentioned Houston as a possible destination for Prigs the other day. If I'm Phil, I call up Morey and see if they'd have any interest in acquiring Prigioni. Maybe they don't but they might -- they're top-heavy with premier talent (D-12, Harden) yet they also have a lot of young talent on that squad as well. That team is poised to compete & I think their stars and young players alike could benefit from Pablo's experience and leadership. Rumors are out there that Morey's on the verge of cutting SF Robert Covington loose if he can't get a trade for him. I feel he might be looking to make a small deal to consolidate his roster somewhat. How about Prigioni and a future 2nd round pick for Covington (a guy they're getting ready to just cut) and Isaiah Canaan? It's a Mo Cheeks for Rod Strickland-type deal that may benefit Houston a couple of different ways (more leadership/wisdom at the point, help clear up a little roster congestion) and I feel it works for us -- Covington is a player I like better than Outlaw and Travis Wear so up to me, he'd make the 15-man over both of those guys and I consider Canaan, from an age and talent standpoint, an upgrade to slide right into Pablo's spot even with his inexperience. Covington and Canaan are both worth surrendering the future 2 on their talent alone...And who knows, maybe we could come out of this with Travis Wear still in the mix, willing to accept a DL assignment at Westchester for the time being. I feel that's a safe assumption -- don't think this kid's shown enough yet to the point where other teams are lining up to add him to their 15-man rosters if he doesn't make ours. He intrigues me though. It'd be nice not to lose him. Ideally, I'd like a little more time to evaluate him at the DL level where he can get extended minutes to real show what he's all about.

CrushAlot wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: Bargs looked good in the first half of the first game and missed last night because of a hammy.

Yes, I agree, he did look fine in game 1. Big man who was putting on some nice moves. But the last half of your sentence -- "and missed last night because of a hammy" -- is indicative of who he is and what he will be again this season.

As for Pablo, there was an article in The Post recently that said Pablo is being shopped around. The triangle offense is not point guard-centric, so to carry three would be excessive. The plan would be Calderon, Barry Larkin's kid, and then even a guy like Shumpert running the "point guard" role. Pablo would be superfluous.

Pablo would be a great pick up for a team that is going to be in the conference finals. He doesn't make mistakes but his age makes him expendable for the Knicks especially with Calderon. I am far from sold on Larkin. Aside from his speed he hasn't impressed me so far. I am hoping it is a combination of rust, adjusting and getting into a rythm.

Let me get this straight:
Starter - 33 year old Jose Calderone who's managed 2 full seasons out of the last 9.
Back up - Shane Larkin, aka Adventures with a Crack Baby owning NBA top 5 wheels Learning The Triangle
Anyone else - Iman Shumpert thinking: "this PG idea is what got me so depressed back in Summer League once..."

That looks a bit thin to be parting so easily with Prigs, a known entity and solid citizen

knicks1248 wrote:Everyone of these players (especially the vets) will resort back to the way they have been playing their whole careers. Learning a new system, and breaking old habits just doesn't happen in a few pick up games, or a handful of practices.

Lets stop acting like this process is a matter of taking a pill, and your instantly in tune with the system. I'm guilty of wanting to see instant change, but when I really think about, it's pretty unrealistic.

Like phil has been stressing, the chemistry and trust part has to be tight off the court first. Jr, Melo, Amare, bargi, these veterans (IMO) will have a longer adjustment period, especially from a mental standpoint.

Here's hoping that repetition and success breeds compliance. A few wins in the system encourages players to conform to what gets them there. It will be interesting to see how we progress with Jason Smith coming to the lineup. We're moving towards being top heavy in the 4-5 spots.