mreinman wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:making it to the finals has nothing to do with not playing dumb. He should thank Larry Brown and all the defenders (not his defense).If that Denver team was in the east they would have certainly gone to the finals.
2008-2009? Who was the difference in them advancing so far? How does that team do without Melo? Playoffs?
Maybe we can agree that Melo for the most part did not have an elite cast ... and that he alone could not carry them and that he had some really bad chucking playoff series.
Be fair PLEASE
Yes Ivy should be thanking Larry over and over
Because without him probably doesn't make it to the HOF
The East/West sidebar is neither here nor there
As far as advancing, it's all semantics
You'd have an argument if
Melo didn't put up
36/25 and 40/25
If Melo put up his regular season #s
Or better in those 2 series and lost okay I'd see your point
So then what about the yr before when he put up great numbers TS of 58%. Or when he faced the Jazz when he put up great numbers 30pts TS of 56%
No one said he's played every series
And every Postseason bad, For what is his bread and butter
He played like crap against Minnesota
He played mediocre against the Spurs
He played like crap against the Clippers
He played awesome against the Spurs
He played like crap against the Lakers
He played very good against Hornets
He played very good against Mavs
He played like crap against the Lakers
He played to his season numbers against Utah[golf clap]
He played like trash against Boston
He played like trash against the Heat
He played like trash against Boston
He played mediocre against Pacers
He has played the overall majority
Of them well below his season's average[which happens to be barely above average]
You can henpeck all you want
In his case it's primarily about his 1 dimensional style of play
More than anything else, ISO ball with no D won't get you far
I can find playoff series here and there
Where Jordan played like trash
Amongst many other greats, if I look hard enough
But I think we know the deal
Are we comparing him to Jordan? C'mon.
Have you looked at how many mediocre -> bad playoff series Kobe had? Easy to hide when Shaq's and Gasol can pick up the slack.
No I wasn't comparing him to Jordan
Glad my point got across to you
Kobe is overrated, agreed
Doesn't make Melo any better
And Melo is/was not better than Kobe
What's your point?
I judge Melo on his own merits
If we happen to be a playoff team this year
Hopefully he doesn't put up the same
Lame arse numbers, he's posted the majority of his career
If he does, hopefully this team somehow
Figures out how to win in spite of him
Ok ... that is fair - as long as you are not overrating Kobe. Iverson was far more overrated though.
Melo does overrate himself as we see in his comments.
He has been far more efficient as a Knick though his post season numbers have not been.
I do think that the supporting cast does affect everyone's efficiency and it looks like you don't (though he is still to blame for a lot of his checking). Iverson had a far more efficient season not because of Karl but because he was surrounded by better offensive players.
Fair or not, Melo will still keep getting killed unless he produces a couple of solid playoff seasons as a knick. He also has to learn how to trust his teammates (even if they stink) and not take it all on his "shoulders". A little too much narcissism (like Kobe).
I actually believe that under Phish he will improve his efficiency a lot. They won't stand for his poor shot choice especially the contested long 2's (though Fisher chucked too much for my liking)
we like to say that great players elevate their games in the playoffs, but melo has rarely if ever done so. in fact, if we look at TS% alone, almost every truly great player takes a hit in the playoffs the deeper he goes. therefore, it behooves said player to START OUT with a superior TS% that has been honed in the regular season by taking a much different approach. we have heard ample evidence of this emphasis from lbj, wade, and bosh. i have always hated the mediocrity of this aspect of melo's game. 55-56% is his career average, and it has always gone down by at least 3 percentage points, rendering him a net negative in this metric. you need elite levels of TS% as it relates to usage to ensure greater playoff success.
melo HAS TO reach a minimum of 59-60%TS in the regular season in order to have a positive impact in the playoffs where he would likely sink to 56-57%TS. the numbers will back up my assertion.
You don't find it even a little interesting that Melo's last 2 years in Denver his TS was 56.4 both years in the playoffs??? Also, his first year with Iverson, his TS was 58.2 ... that was 3 out of last 4 years in Denver.
So Iverson was the best teammate
Sans Billups based on TS?
So Iverson made him better too
But you tried to say Melo made him better[if we count regular season as the real season]
BTW Iverson highest TS was in 2004-2005
He wasn't playing with Melo then
He also posted higher playoff TS while in Philly
I caught you serving soft volley into the net
Look again mr lob - SMASH and tell me what year was Iversons best TS (please). Iverson did play well that season (though he was a trash player - please reread my Iverson comments), so ... Melo at least had a guard who could create that year and Melo played well because of it. Unfortunately, Iverson was TRASH in the playoffs - that did not help. However, Carmelo has a TS of 58 and Iverson 44!
CB don't do no 44's.
I never lob the ball over the net unless my opponent is always at the baseline and he is fat and lazy.
i looked at the numbers just now and here is what i saw:
melo took a third of his shots from 0-3 feet, converting at a very high rate of almost 70%. that alone skews his TS% for those playoffs. my hunch is that he was not overweight at that time, being only 22. he was basically a finisher off of pocket passes from steve blake, andre miller, or iverson on the one hand, and he played "bully ball" on the other. seeing as he was assisted on 50% of his shots it seems likely that he took the ball to the rim and finished well a lot of the time. also, looking at the spurs roster, outside of bowen there was nobody who matched up well with melo, so melo exploited the matchup. all fine and good...
but the downside of being a finisher is that he takes away from the team game, which has ALWAYS been the issue, along with putrid defense. his usage to assist ratio seals this: 29.5 to 6.0 for a ghastly 4.9:1.
iverson's numbers were typically ghastly and they contributed mightily to the nuggets demise.
and in a general way i think popovich said "let these two guys shoot their way to losses." meanwhile i don't imagine karl had the ability to rein in iverson.
in any event this is what the numbers say. now if anyone has anecdotal or empirical evidence based on memory or videos i am happy to be corrected.
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
10/6/2014 12:04 AM
