[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

[No Extension For Shumpert?]
Author Thread
F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

9/29/2014  9:00 AM
Not surprising in the realm of future operation but//////

The New York Knicks and Iman Shumpert's representatives have not had contact about a contract extension, according to sources.

The Knicks have about four weeks to start talks with Shumpert, but they are content to to let him become a restricted free agent next summer.

The Knicks explored trades for Shumpert in the offseason but could not find equal value for their 2011 first round pick.


What I do find interesting there have been no talks

Phil and their reps haven't gone the Walsh route


As in give Shumpert a 1 yr raise[is this legal New CBA?]

Giving him the option not to be traded this season


While placing his salary at a value his reps

Can work from going into the summer


It says we've explored trades[known] but couldn't find value

So we're content to let him become a RFA?


Does this make sense?

Unless the value we were getting back was crazy salary


This wasn't the case, he should have been traded by now

Now we won't get good value because he's lame duck status


He has some power too in that

He can inform the team we're looking to trade him to


He won't sign there

Like I doubt OKC's offer would improve for him


It'll probably go down and we all know

Since the cap will jump to high heavens this summer


They can sign him to a full MLE

or Cap friendly deal


Meanwhile plenty of teams entered discussions

With their young talent and either struck a deal


Or came up with figures of value

I think this says all we need to know


About Shumpert's Future here

AUTOADVERT
Nalod
Posts: 68482
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
9/29/2014  9:06 AM
Players move from teams all the time. Shump can raise his value this season by what he does on the court.

This may be shumps preference as well. If he "believes in himself" then he should have no problem with this.
So why should he sign now? Of course there are risks.

If he blows up big we can keep him or sign and trade. If someone wants to over pay, then so be it.

F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

9/29/2014  9:16 AM
Nalod wrote:Players move from teams all the time. Shump can raise his value this season by what he does on the court.

This may be shumps preference as well. If he "believes in himself" then he should have no problem with this.
So why should he sign now? Of course there are risks.

If he blows up big we can keep him or sign and trade. If someone wants to over pay, then so be it.


There's a huge difference between

Trade Value and Contract Value


I'm talking galactic in principle


He had at best 1st round pick value

In the 20s or thereabouts


You think his play raises his trade value higher

I doubt it, especially not with the log jam we have


No team would give us a lottery pick

For Shumpert in a lame duck status


His play could potentially increase his

Contract value from a $3-4mil player


To $6-8mil player, but I doubt it

I doubt we'd pay him $6-8mil regardless


His cap hit will have negative value for us

And if we inked him for those figures, ditto

franco12
Posts: 33150
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
9/29/2014  9:17 AM
I love Shump and think not all his struggles have been on him, but what has he down to prove he belongs in this league on anything more than a vet minimum type deal?

Sure, he has potential, but sure does Early and our upcoming first round pick- and none of them will cost the kind of money Shump could be due on an extension of any kind.

EnySpree
Posts: 44917
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

9/29/2014  9:22 AM
The Knicks have 2 other shooting guards on the roster in smith and Hardaway. They also have 2 back up small feds in outlaw and early. Shump is not needed here. You can make an argument to keep him but the truth is he's the guy that had to go and such a move would have zero impact on the team negative or positive.
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC?t=z5pqPMhdiAZNwzcCGMkiFw&s=09
F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

9/29/2014  9:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/29/2014  9:36 AM
EnySpree wrote:The Knicks have 2 other shooting guards on the roster in smith and Hardaway. They also have 2 back up small feds in outlaw and early. Shump is not needed here. You can make an argument to keep him but the truth is he's the guy that had to go and such a move would have zero impact on the team negative or positive.


Agreed but I bet the organization

Holds this continued flawed thinking


If we can't get premium value

Then we hold on to the player


Because this player could make or break

Our chances at getting to the playoffs


This is part of the culture

I'd like to see change


If you don't think the player is worth

Contract extension discussion[outside bonafied max talent]


Then get rid of him

Shumpert is not a lucky rabbit's foot

Solace
Posts: 30002
Alba Posts: 20
Joined: 10/30/2003
Member: #479
USA
9/29/2014  9:43 AM
^ I like the format of your responses. It's like you're writing a poem.
...
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189

9/29/2014  11:16 AM
shumpert


sucks


he has


never


been


a


good


and efficient

offensive

player

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

9/29/2014  11:38 AM
Many questions about whether he can fit into the Triangle.

Shumpert became somewhat efficient at hitting those corner 3s where he he just stood around waiting for someone to give him the ball, but it would seem that he, and all Knicks, will have to be more involved in the offense, and it also seems like the midrange shot will be more in vogue on this team.

I have my doubts about Shumpert's midrange shooting abilities. I think he is the type of player who needs to have more control over the ball to maximize his shooting efficiency, and he will not get that chance with this offense.

He has also shown some weaknesses going to the basket, and it would seem that we need guards who can cut to the basket after giving up the ball and make a contested layup.

I hope that he adapts and emerges as someone the Knicks want in there future... I just have doubts about a player who has not really improved his game since he has been a Knick.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
EnySpree
Posts: 44917
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

9/29/2014  12:19 PM
Shumpert can fit the triangle. That's not the issue. The issue is when we talk like his impact is going to effect sins and losses. Like if we don't start him we can't win. That's nonsense. Right now Jr us the best overall player. He has a little shump and Hardaway in him. He needs to play 30 plus minutes. The rest should go to his backup. Only one guy deserves that. You can't have shump sitting in the bench. I'd rather trade shump and improve the roster and sign a vet in a minimum deal to be 3rd string.
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC?t=z5pqPMhdiAZNwzcCGMkiFw&s=09
F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

9/29/2014  2:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/29/2014  2:10 PM
EnySpree wrote:Shumpert can fit the triangle. That's not the issue. The issue is when we talk like his impact is going to effect sins and losses. Like if we don't start him we can't win. That's nonsense. Right now Jr us the best overall player. He has a little shump and Hardaway in him. He needs to play 30 plus minutes. The rest should go to his backup. Only one guy deserves that. You can't have shump sitting in the bench. I'd rather trade shump and improve the roster and sign a vet in a minimum deal to be 3rd string.

You trade him to a team under the cap

You ask for a pick[1st] or picks[2nd]


And a player[who can contribute], enticing the team

By taking on extra salary just for this season


You can't increase trade value by

Playing Shumpert 15-20min, if that


This is a granular part of Phil's operation

I question, as it comes off blunderish


J.R. Smith is already sunk cost

If anything Enyspree your idea of playing him 30min or more


May be the best, to trap J.R. into

Possibly opting out if he has significant


Contribution to the season thinking he can

Fetch more money on the open market


I doubt it, but I'd test his flight risk potential here

Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
9/29/2014  2:07 PM
mreinman wrote:shumpert


sucks


he has


never


been


a


good


and efficient

offensive

player

+1
There's no point in having talks with him about another contract when he hasn't yet shown that he even belongs in this league.

knickknack
Posts: 20054
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/17/2014
Member: #5891

9/29/2014  3:45 PM
Nalod wrote:Players move from teams all the time. Shump can raise his value this season by what he does on the court.

This may be shumps preference as well. If he "believes in himself" then he should have no problem with this.
So why should he sign now? Of course there are risks.

If he blows up big we can keep him or sign and trade. If someone wants to over pay, then so be it.

I agree. Let shump earn his money, if he has a great year and raises his value that will only be a positive for the knicks.

trust the kristaps-cess!
F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

9/29/2014  10:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/29/2014  10:04 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
F500ONE wrote:You trade him to a team under the cap

You ask for a pick[1st] or picks[2nd]

Shumpert is not worth a 1st round pick, nor likely a 2nd rounder, not in today's NBA marketplace, not under the current CBA conditions.

Why Shumpert MIGHT have been worth a 1st rounder to a team like OKC a few years ago, was that pre injury, you are looking at a young defensive stopper who players shooting guard ( it is very difficult to find good wings in the NBA) on a cost controlled rookie contract. For a team so nearly capped out and with few options to improve, and consider any surrendered pick that is their own ( and not another teams by trade via proxy) would likely be a low pick, in the late 20s. OKC would be gambling that Shumpert is better than what they could get with said future pick and could help them right now and for a FEW YEARS at a cost controlled level.

Now Shumpert is post injury. There are concerns if he will be able to fulfill his full potential. If you blow out your knee, you are never the same. How far from the same pre injury is the question. More questions, less value.

Shumpert is in a contract year. No more 2-3 season of cheap cost controlled labor. Now if you trade for him, you must make a long term decision on him very very quickly. It's not like you have 2-3 years like they did with Jeremy Lamb or Reggie Jackson to evaluate.

Shumpert has shown immaturity, despite the Knicks not doing him any favors with their management and development of him. On a veteran team, that's a red flag.

The OKC Thunder are still strong, but an injury or two ( Westbrook seems constantly hurt, Jackson becomes a contract question now, Ibaka is a big and bigs are always a risk to get injured from banging around in the post) could change the trajectory of what their potential pick might look like.

Phoenix got a first rounder for Gortat. Omer Asik moved for a first rounder. Spencer Hawes moved for a pair of 2nds. Evan Turner moved for 2nds. You can still get a first rounder in a trade, but odds are you need to be trading a big, a high value commodity. Teams are hoarding first rounders now because the current CBA incentivizes teams to build through the draft and seek young cost controlled labor who are outplaying said rookie contract.

Zen Master has openly pretty much tried to trade every single guy on the roster not named Melo. If he could have gotten a future first rounder or even a pair of 2nds for Shumpert, he would have traded him already.

The very same reason the Knicks will and should hesitate on an extension are the same core principles why other teams will hesitate to trade for him. Jackson and Fish have no choice but to let Shumpert play and put some distance between him and the stink of his feud with Woodson and his injury and his poor play last year and see if he can reassert some trade value. Even he does, we are looking at 2nd round picks, not a first rounder. The marketplace for NBA valuation on first round picks has changed.


Shump was worth a 1st to OKC

The past season deadline


They even showed interest

After he tweaked his knee


We showed little interest to move him there


They officially backed out when the Clippers

C-Blocked the deal by making an offer for him


The Clippers package was Collison-Barnes-Bullock and 2 picks

For Shumpert and Felton


Is he worth a 1st to OKC now

Probably not but you never know


If we dialed them up now or during the draft

Like Phil should have


Rumor has it he advised us not to

Trade Shumpert on a couple occasions last yr


As far as extensions go I'm happy

Shumpert isn't receiving one


I'm mad we've turned him into sunk cost

Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
9/29/2014  11:10 PM
I don't see the reason to extend Iman Shumpert.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
9/29/2014  11:17 PM
Vmart wrote:I don't see the reason to extend Iman Shumpert.

yet.

Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
9/29/2014  11:18 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
Vmart wrote:I don't see the reason to extend Iman Shumpert.

yet.

Exactly no idea what he will do as soon as the first trade rumor roles around.

gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
9/29/2014  11:22 PM
no i mean what if he gives you a reason to extend him and JR & Tim Hardaway give you a reason to for you to trade one of them
F500ONE
Posts: 23899
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5844

9/29/2014  11:27 PM
gunsnewing wrote:no i mean what if he gives you a reason to extend him and JR & Tim Hardaway give you a reason to for you to trade one of them

They have until Oct 31st to ink him now

Once the summer hits his QO if extended


Comes with a $6.5mil cap hit

Sorry if he isn't extended by October[basing decisions off preseason?]


Then you have to pray a sucker team takes him from Dec-Feb

Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
9/29/2014  11:31 PM
gunsnewing wrote:no i mean what if he gives you a reason to extend him and JR & Tim Hardaway give you a reason to for you to trade one of them

I know what you meant. I don't trust Shumpert like you guys do. I like the fact Phil didn't extend him. He is calling Shump out show me what you got. Honestly speaking I detest JR but I can stomach him better than Shump. As for Hardaway Jr to me he is already more valuable than Shump his shooting is going to be vital to the Knicks success.

[No Extension For Shumpert?]

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy