NYStateOfMind wrote:Ridicule yourself, why should the Knicks make this move?

He is overpaid, doesn't always hustle, foul prone, fg% is usually fine, rebounds okay. I'd rather Faried and Mosgov any day. I've seen them all play many times here in Colorado. Pass.

I'd rather have a 26 year old Hakeem Olajuwon but that's irrelevant because it can't happen. As far as centers go, you won't find anyone with as much talent and potential that will be available. At $11.3-12 million for the next two seasons, his contract is more than reasonable. We might as well roll the dice because we won't find better the next 2 years.

RonRon wrote:McGee does have a lot talent/length/potential with the ability to block shots/protect the paint
If he could stay consistent, not hurt, and have a half decent post game his contract wouldn't be bad at all, similar to Hibbert who got a max deal

The major difference between Hibbert, DeAndre Jordan, McGee was that they were on winning teams/different conference and one was able to stay on the floor
Probably Hibbert is the better defender though McGee has the better "potential" and DeAndre Jordan is the most athletic and plays with the best PG in the league

other options include

DeAndre Jordan
Marc Gasol

Brandon Wright
Asik

Now since you are talking about a trade, I guess it depends what else we can get out of it, including draft picks and/or role players
I think Randy Foye would fit in with a few other players on the Denver roster very well, though they are not the ALL STAR's Phil Jackson is likely trying to pair with CA
McGee could be a more athletic version of Tyson Chandler, without the "winning pedigree"

I just don't think Phil Jackson is looking to spend majority of their cap space just for McGee
Is he going to try to match the talent that Chicago and Cleveland have on their rosters?
I don't know the answer to it but it would be pretty hard to do either way

With sending AB/STAT's contract and if Denver is looking to clear salary we could get a bunch of B to B+ players but CA will never be the Robin when teams nowdays have 3 ALL STAR's +
By making this trade we limit our options in our future
So do we go ALL IN with Denver once again and at what price?
I simply wouldn't be willing to give more picks to Denver but maybe to help them clear salary at best with expirings, also need them to take on Pablo's contract

McGee
Randy Foye
Chandler or Gallo
Affalo or MoSGoV or Hickson

The good thing about a trade is it allows us to have the full 5 MLE to use in the summer
We need to make a move prior to the trade deadline if we are looking to use AB and/or STAT's contracts, or simply let them expire and look to persue FA's with salary cap and the room exemption vs 5m MLE *which we could use next season*

Denver probably would only do it if we can get a team like Philly involved so they get to clear salary with a large trade exemption but the 3rd team would need an incentive as well

I think Denver would be looking to do a salary dump. If we could acquire Keith Bogans' non-guaranteed deal and combine it with Samuel Dalembert's contract, I think we'd have a deal. They have demonstrated a penchant for being penny-pinchers in the past (see dealing prime-Marcus Camby as a salary dump; not paying Linas Kleiza), so the possibility of whipping $11 million off the ledger would be an appealing one. More importantly, they've got no use for McGee with Mozgov and 16th pick, Jusuf Nurkic aboard. But I doubt the Nuggets would add sweetners to get the deal done. There would be plenty of times that would roll the dice on McGee without demanding as much.

As for 2015, it's all but a guarantee that DeAndre Jordan re-signs with the Clippers and I doubt that Marc Gasol would walk away from the extra year of max pay that Memphis can offer; same with Asik and the Pelicans. Might as well start adding salary if it improves the team, which I think McGee might be able to do.

I am big on giving guys a chance. He's been to the Hakeem camp with Amare. His mom was a former wnba player. He's tried to play hard. He's not a stiff. He's athletic as hell. Sometimes he can fill the stat sheet. Sometimes he can do amazing things.... he's a hack. Clumbsy. He had zero confidence. All that said, he does need a change in scenery.

He's not a fit for what the Knicks are trying to do with the triangle, fisher, Phil and Carmelo

CrushAlot wrote:I kind of like him in Denver knowing that Shaw has a mandate from ownership to feature him in the offense.

I do find that vid funny, but if I'm being honest, I would probably make the same blunders if I was a basketball player!

A big no to McGee! I used to think his stats and highlights looked good, then I actually watched him play. I've never witnessed a player have such a detrimental impact to a game and his team- it was amazing!

Besides which, I read somewhere that his leg isn't healing on schedule and he might not be ready for preseason- thats a worry.

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:^^^wow at that video....

I am big on giving guys a chance. He's been to the Hakeem camp with Amare. His mom was a former wnba player. He's tried to play hard. He's not a stiff. He's athletic as hell. Sometimes he can fill the stat sheet. Sometimes he can do amazing things.... he's a hack. Clumbsy. He had zero confidence. All that said, he does need a change in scenery.

He's not a fit for what the Knicks are trying to do with the triangle, fisher, Phil and Carmelo

JaVale McGee has some pretty rare plus athleticism for a big man. That being said, he is burdened with a poor attitude and low BB IQ. Unfortunately today in modern sports, the majority of analysts and sports writers and media personalities are still Caucasian. And there is simply too much liability and no desire the buck the trend of political correctness to just outright call an African American pro athlete or prospect dumb, even if he's dumb.

JaVale McGee is dumb. He simply has very little concept of how to play team defense and how to operate within a team system. He consistently makes the same mistakes over and over. He does not rotate well. He is easily frustrated. He has a poor concept of spacing and leverage. His footwork hasn't improved since he was a rookie. He does not know how to use his size well. He does not operate well in traffic. But he has the physical benchmarks that scouts salivate over. The guy can jump out of the gym and moves at a speed like a wing at times.

An effective NBA center is your defensive anchor and must coordinate the defense on the court. Good defenders understand this, centers like Noah, Howard and Asik. This isn't much different than a MLB catcher adjusting the fielding defense and managing the pitching staff or an NFL middle linebacker or NFL center calling adjustments and assignments. You are only as strong as you are up the middle in any pro sport.

McGee has played long enough to wear out his "potential label" He loses playing time to physically inferior players and players less talented but who are higher BB IQ players and are more fundamentally/technically sound.

Given Calderon's contract runs though his ages 34-36 years, at about 7-8 million per, it doesn't seem likely that Zen Master can dump that contract down the road, meaning for the next three seasons, Calderon and Melo are roster locks. If you add McGee to that, the defense will be tragic. McGee has the raw talent to be a DPOY candidate, but you can't fix stupid.

The Decision was stupid. It was idiotic on all kinds of levels. If not for ESPN, the NBA and Nike running interference and the general sports media fearing to be labeled racist for it, they would have all called LeBron James an idiot for The Decision.

If the general sports media wasn't so politically correct and feared the typical "you must be racist" narrative, they would just come out and say the biggest problem with McGee is you can't fix stupid. Nice to have million dollar talent, but if you are saddled with a ten cent head, it won't help you much.

Catchers, centers, middle linebackers, they have to be cerebral players. They have to be like mini coaches on the field of play. They have to be able to understand both sides of the ball. Understand how to manage the units on the field and make critical decisions on the fly. Noah isn't the most talented center in the NBA, but his work ethic and his BB IQ push him over the top as a plus defender.

You can get away with being a little bit dumb at other positions, but you can't if your job is to be a defensive anchor. And centers are judged on their ability to galvanize the entire team defense.

STAT and Bargs are untradeable, the Knicks couldn't get McGee anyway, but why would they want to send McGee, Calderon and Melo out there to the slaughter night after night. That trio would make Kevin Martin/Ricky Rubio/Nik Pekovic and Kevin Love to seem like an All Star defense. I didn't think I could imagine a worst defensive lineup than that TWolves unit, but somehow that imaginary Knicks trio gives me shivers.

This is not ten years ago. The current CBA with shorter contracts make it much easier for teams to carve out some cap space. Cap space is also not an equal value when you factor in the city in question. Free agents, the elite ones, aren't knocking themselves over to go play in Denver. Teams like this have to build through the draft and trades. Clearing space to this degree only punishes these teams since they have to overpay players at that point to reach the mandated salary floor.

Too often I see Knicks fans propose a trade without putting themselves into the shoes of the other franchise and ask themselves "Why would this team do this and how does it help them?"

If McGee was seen as someone who could help, really help another team, then you'd hear about all kinds of teams being interested in him. But you don't. Sadly, there is a reason why the guys who are available are actually available.

The only way Denver would take STAT or Bargs in a trade is if James Dolan had a clone who bought the Nuggets and then hired the Sacto front office to handle personnel.

You live in a fantasy land- black players get called dumb all the damn time, though now it's been altered to the less offensive 'low bball iq'. White players very rarely get called dumb- I don't think I've ever read Bargs being described as dumb even though I'd say he is the biggest moron on the team!

I've called Bargs an idiot at times, but I should really stick to low bball iq, because a) I would look like a moron if I tried to play basketball (I don't understand the most basic plays!) and b) these 'dumb' players are richer and more successful than you or I will ever be.

It's easy to sit back and watch someone and call them an idiot, but at the end of the day I don't know any of them, and if people sat back and watched and scrutinised me all day, they would probably come to the same conclusion about me!

Don't bother bro. He's not even going to respond to you but will still continue to peddle his nonsense. He seems to post these uber-racist/conservative talking points whenever he can find an excuse to do so. So just sit back and enjoy the ride. There can be a great deal of humor in others' stupidity.

IF

He can stay

Healthy, Focused, Hungry, and continues to work on his strenghts and weakness's, he easily is DPOY potenial
He is a great SHOT BLOCKER, HELP DEFENDER, and can finish with ease around the basket like no other

Again, I do not believe you play DEFENSE with one player, you play DEF with 5 players, and a combination of good/great help defenders and 1v1 defenders
James Johnson is a very under rated 1v1 defender that I have been hoping the Knick's signed for years already, he would have been perfect to compliment CA and a Center like McGee
If we do not want CA defending the Lebron, Durant's, and etc, I can not think of one cheaper option than James Johnson that could be more efficient
Johnson ranks 1st in blocking 3pt shots attempts, would be a great fit for our past and future, especially with Adektenpo/Iman, Acey, add in a shot blocker like McGee, it would be a tough lineup with lots of energy that would have a multiplied effect/affect in the Garden in terms of energy

We wasted our MINI MLE 2 years in a row,
Instead of going after Kidd, then Pablo/MWP, we could have easily locked Johnson up at one point, even with a 2 year team option deal before getting his early bird rights
There were a couple years we could have picked him up for the vet min, including last season while he was in the D League before Memphis picked him up
He signed a 2 year 2.5m deal to return back to Toronto
While I like Jason Smith as a player, I did not see the rush to sign him to a 1 year mini MLE deal, while players like Ed Davis/Greg Stimensa signed for the vet min

I think Phil Jackson should consider trading STAT and AB, fill ins, a combined 36m in salary, at most, 1 future 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder

if it could net back us multiple players like

McGee 12m

Foye 3m

Affalo or MoSGoV or Hickson, about 5-6m

Wroten 1-2m *which is unlikely with MCW's injury* but would give up Larkin in the process or/and the 3.6m trade exemption

Gallo 12m/Wilson Chandler 6-7m

I would save cap space for 2017 though, as it looks like our next possible year to be able to build a contender with
In these next couple years, the purpose would be the compete in the play offs, and build up the value of our talents, then dumping them to gain further assets to use
I would not overpay to resign Affalo, who has a player option this summer, or anyone that would go beyond 2017 that we could have trouble trading if they are not cap friendly deal, where we could persue

Durant
Noah
Kobe

James Johnson
Battum/Parsons

Vasquez

NYStateOfMind wrote:In the Triangle, you need a big man who can hit an outside shot and pass the ball. McGee is a tip the rebound in or dunk kind of player. He is more suited for a pick and roll team, therefore not a fit for this team and the direction it is going.

According to 82games.com, 42% of Javale McGee's shots last (complete) season (2012-2013) were jump shots with an eFG% of 55.4%. He can certainly hit jumpers and can be more than a "tip...and dunk player". The question is whether he has a legit shot of maturing. He's dumb as bricks but maybe we could work around that.