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franco12
Posts: 33195 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
8/27/2014 1:31 PM
2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd
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F500ONE
Posts: 23899 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5844 |
8/27/2014 1:52 PM
franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd He needs to be better than the 2010-2011 Felton |
babyKnicks
Posts: 22484 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/31/2006 Member: #1191 USA |
8/27/2014 2:14 PM
franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd +1 It's basically all we have been saying all along...add derek fisher and you trump all the "Player Coaches" from the 54 win team. Let's go Knicks. That's amare
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
8/27/2014 2:16 PM
franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd Jason was very effective on the D end of the court but obviously faded on the O end at the end of season. I would still put Jason > Calderon in terms of overall effectiveness. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
8/27/2014 2:33 PM
franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd No way jose, while he may be a floor general like kidd on the offensive side of things, he is not even 1/10th of a defender kidd was, and he is no where near the leader kidd was. ES
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bernard
Posts: 20730 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/17/2003 Member: #475 |
8/27/2014 3:17 PM
I have a very different memory of Kidd's year in 2012/13. I think he may well have been our MVP of the first 1/2, but obviously fell off dramatically. So I appreciate what he brought to the team. Still, even at his best, he wasn't a "1" anymore because he couldn't hold the quick PG's, or, for that matter, get to where he wanted to on the court off the dribble. He was a dramatically reduced player, sometimes a liability on "d" and mainly a ball mover and spot up shooter (until his shot abandoned him) on "o". He got a lot out of relatively little left in the tank because his off-the-charts instincts and great toughness were still intact.
JC will give us more minutes, more playmaking and much better shooting. He'll put up much bigger stats as he'll be handling the ball more. On defense, it's hard for me to say. I don't have a good feel for just how weak JC is on that side of the court, but I don't think JK was anywhere near an elite defender two years back. What we may miss are the intangibles. |
smackeddog
Posts: 38386 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/30/2005 Member: #883 |
8/27/2014 4:25 PM
Only a month until training camp- can't wait! First preseason game is 8th October!
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franco12
Posts: 33195 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 2/19/2004 Member: #599 USA |
8/27/2014 4:29 PM
knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd And I think this is where we can have a debate! Yes, Kidd was probably a better leader than Calderon will be - but I think Calderon's shooting ability will be much better than what we got out of Kidd. Kidd was awesome first part of the season - then a downright liability second half and play offs. Didn't he go some absurd stretch (40 shots) without making a bucket or 3 pt shot. Unless Calderon gets hurt, I'd expect really solid contributions all year- and to me, that puts him as a whole above what Kidd gave us his last season with us. |
knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
8/27/2014 6:08 PM
franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd what happen if jose's shots aren't falling, he's useless. ES
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
8/27/2014 6:11 PM
franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd If he plays well for a full season, then yes. |
F500ONE
Posts: 23899 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5844 |
8/27/2014 6:14 PM
knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd His shot has always been there Since his second season
Outside of his stint with Dallas
To achieve peak results
May leave him and as you say, then what |
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
8/27/2014 6:19 PM
nixluva wrote:Jose may be a player who is only effective on one side of the court but he can really be a boost to the team that helps to make this team a top offensive team this year. It's his BB IQ, shooting ability and his high level passing ability. Just watch how he passes the ball with relative ease and compare the court vision he has to what we had last year with Felton. Jose is better than I think many even realize on the offensive side of the ball. Elite PGs who are top notch defenders can get burned by elite PGs as well. Its the Feltons of this league who I don't want to see having a field day with Calderone. When Calderone starts running out of gas, having a PG who is a good defender will come in handy. I don't know how Prigs and Larkin will do next season, Prigs is no spring chicken, but I hope they can pick up the slack defensively. Larkin had a great nose for the ball on both ends of the court in SL, so that's encouraging. |
nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
8/27/2014 7:07 PM
knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd Not true. As I said earlier look at Jose's passes, he's a fantastic passer. I never really focused on it until now but he can really set up his teammates with pin point passes. He also pushes the ball very well and gets the offense started early. I've also pointed to multiple articles that state Jose is a very good leader. Jose is a natural shooter much like Nash. Sure any player can go thru a slump, but he'd have to really drop to reach the lows that Kidd reached in the 2nd half of his season in NY. |
F500ONE
Posts: 23899 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/28/2014 Member: #5844 |
8/27/2014 7:32 PM
We have to hope Nix will be spot on this year
He's going way out on the very edge of the limb
From a recent Fan Sided Article written about "Ball Stoppage" The New York Knicks have a new President of Basketball Operations in Phil Jackson, a new Head Coach in Derek Fischer and new faces like Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert to replace the likes of Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler. The Knicks have former Sixth Man of the Year J.R. Smith and second year shooting guard Tim Hardaway Jr. returning to the squad and allegedly this team will be running the famed “Triangle” offense that saw the Chicago Bulls win six NBA Championships and five championships for the Los Angeles Lakers. I knew Shump had popped off a couple times The past year or so about players doing the right things
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
8/27/2014 8:38 PM
F500ONE wrote:We have to hope Nix will be spot on this year I actually think Melo will be just fine under Phil and Fish. I think he trusts the pedigree of these men and what Phil has proven with MJ and Kobe. Melo is older and perhaps realizing he has to accept changes in order to win. Perhaps he's mentally ready now to accept what Phil and Fish are wanting to teach him. So far he's been doing things that indicate he's buying into an effort to be better. He will be playing in this system for the 1st time and he'll have a chance to really explore a new way of playing. His teammates will most definitely enjoy this style since it involves everyone on the floor in the action. Many of the plays will likely have Melo on the weak side which means the ball will start on the opposite side and his teammates will be involved and get to touch the ball. It won't always be like that, since many times the ball will be swung to his side as well. I think it's a fun offense for any player and if he fully buys into the ball and player movement he can setup his teammates for easy scores and that he will enjoy and do it more and more. I think having Jose out there will be a big boost to the overall ball movement just as it did with Kidd or Prigs being in the game. Certain players just understand the importance of good passing and Jose is one of those players. His presence will help Melo and every other player on the floor. The key to all of this is that the combined BB IQ of the team will improve playing this way. Practicing everyday how to pass and cut and understand where your teammates are on the floor will have an impact. When ball is played like this it's like Ballet. Everything is so much smoother and choreographed like a dance. Players are in sync. It will take time to master it, but it's well worth the effort to learn how to play like this. Not just Melo but all of our young players will be learning how to play REAL BB too. That's gonna have an impact on this team playing a better brand of BB. |
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
8/27/2014 10:40 PM
F500ONE wrote:We have to hope Nix will be spot on this year Shump shot 38% from the floor last year. He missed or passed up a lot of open shots. He needs to worry about his own game and figure out how not to be a liability for his team on offense. Shump is at a crossroads. He needs to take the next step in his development or he could end up like Terrence Williams. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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newyorknewyork
Posts: 29863 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
8/27/2014 11:25 PM
F500ONE wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd Are we asking this of him though? I don't think he was traded for to become Steve Nash in his prime for us. IMO he was brought in to be a reliable shooting threat, ball mover, and positive locker room presence. With Calderon, Jr, and Melo's outside shooting ability if we had an impact big that forced double teams they would have the makings of a real fun offense. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
8/27/2014 11:58 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd I think the bigs we have will be more than adequate. We have so much firepower from our guards and SF's that we only need our bigs to be solid and this team has a chance to be a top offensive team. STAT, Bargs, Jason, Dalembert and Cole should be able to get it done. We just need to keep proper spacing and the Ball and Player movement going at a crisp pace. There's too much scoring talent for this team not to be a very tough team to deal with. I like the shooting we have with our PG's, SG's and SF's. Melo and Early can both stroke it and just need to be setup properly. Fish just has to get everyone to TRUST each other and the system. Keep the ball and palyer movement and great shots will present themselves. Having ball movers like Jose and Prigs in the mix will help a lot but others have to participate as well. |
knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
8/28/2014 9:50 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:F500ONE wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd Bigs don't get double team in the triangle, in fact it's hard to double team anyone in the triangle because the ball, and the players are always moving. ES
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