franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd

He needs to be better than the

2010-2011 Felton

franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd

Jason was very effective on the D end of the court but obviously faded on the O end at the end of season. I would still put Jason > Calderon in terms of overall effectiveness.

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd

No way jose, while he may be a floor general like kidd on the offensive side of things, he is not even 1/10th of a defender kidd was, and he is no where near the leader kidd was.

And I think this is where we can have a debate!

Yes, Kidd was probably a better leader than Calderon will be - but I think Calderon's shooting ability will be much better than what we got out of Kidd. Kidd was awesome first part of the season - then a downright liability second half and play offs. Didn't he go some absurd stretch (40 shots) without making a bucket or 3 pt shot.

Unless Calderon gets hurt, I'd expect really solid contributions all year- and to me, that puts him as a whole above what Kidd gave us his last season with us.

franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd

If he plays well for a full season, then yes.

nixluva wrote:Jose may be a player who is only effective on one side of the court but he can really be a boost to the team that helps to make this team a top offensive team this year. It's his BB IQ, shooting ability and his high level passing ability. Just watch how he passes the ball with relative ease and compare the court vision he has to what we had last year with Felton. Jose is better than I think many even realize on the offensive side of the ball.

We really have missed that aspect of the game. He's a deadly shooter and passer and having someone with his experience will help make the team as a whole better. We also played better when Prigs was on the floor so we have him adding some minutes of more smart BB behind Jose. They can teach Larkin so much about the game, which Felton could never have done. Hopefully that will also extend to all of our guards who will have to handle the ball a lot this year. Just knowing that Jose will be setting up Melo in the 2 man game a lot this year is very exciting to think about. It should help Melo get the ball in great scoring position and his shooting ability should open things up for Melo as well.

Jose isn't a very gifted defender, but he is smart and puts himself in position to make plays. He'll get burned by younger quick guards for sure, but he will also make our team much more efficient. If I was the coach I would try to send help early to have a lot of pressure on the opposing PG to make him give up the ball and then recover. I see no sense in leaving Jose out on an island all game. The defensive rotations have to be solid so that we can pressure the ball and get back. I might even try using Zones to help as well. Mix it up defensively when we have our weakest defensive unit on the floor. Off the bench we can put a better defensive unit out there with Prigs and Shump or Larkin and Shump.

Elite PGs who are top notch defenders can get burned by elite PGs as well. Its the Feltons of this league who I don't want to see having a field day with Calderone. When Calderone starts running out of gas, having a PG who is a good defender will come in handy. I don't know how Prigs and Larkin will do next season, Prigs is no spring chicken, but I hope they can pick up the slack defensively. Larkin had a great nose for the ball on both ends of the court in SL, so that's encouraging.

He's going way out on the very edge of the limb

Pushing all his chips in the Jose basket

Hopefully the triangle improves things like this

From a recent Fan Sided Article written about "Ball Stoppage"

The New York Knicks have a new President of Basketball Operations in Phil Jackson, a new Head Coach in Derek Fischer and new faces like Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert to replace the likes of Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler. The Knicks have former Sixth Man of the Year J.R. Smith and second year shooting guard Tim Hardaway Jr. returning to the squad and allegedly this team will be running the famed “Triangle” offense that saw the Chicago Bulls win six NBA Championships and five championships for the Los Angeles Lakers.

They also have the heavily criticized NBA Superstar Carmelo Anthony returning to the fold to hopefully lead this team to their first Championship since the 1972-1973 Knicks defeated the Los Angeles Lakers.

Anthony is one of those “damned if he does damned if he doesn’t” type of athletes but there two major criticisms of Anthony that are not only legitimate but I think they go hand in hand. They would be;

1). That a Carmelo Anthony led team has never reached an NBA Final and;

2). That Carmelo Anthony doesn’t pass the ball and is essentially a “ball stopper”.

“Ball Stopper”, “ball hog” and not a “team player” are terms frequently associated with Anthony; in fact his hero Bernard King leveled a similar critique of Anthony on Twitter in 2013. Several other past NBA greats have made similar statements so this is nothing new. Let’s take a look and see if Kings comment made any inroads with the man they simply call “Melo”.

In 2013-2014 Anthony had 242 assists which was by far the most of his Knicks career. He also averaged 40.7 passes per game while averaging 3.1 assists per game (APG) out of 6.3 assist opportunities per game. I suppose one could blame the low assist average on the fact that his teammates didn’t shoot the ball all that particularly well in 2013-2014 but still that number is low compared to small forwards LeBron James (6.4), Kevin Durant (5.5), Gordon Hayward (5.2), Nicolas Batum (5.1) ,Chandler Parsons (4.0) and others.

Another statistic I like to use is “points created by assists” and in this category Anthony registered 7.8 per game and 9.6 per 48 minutes. His counterparts James (15.3, 19.4), Durant (12.8, 15.8), Batum (12.0, 15.9), Hayward (12.4, 16.2) and Parsons (9.5, 12.0) all fared much better than Anthony but neither this nor his APG can be used solely to indict Anthony as there are other factors involved.

In the 2013-2014 season Anthony played 5570 possessions for the Knicks which was nearly 2000 more than Felton and Smith. During those possessions Anthony launched 1643 shots, Smith 693 with Felton finishing third jacking up 564 shots. The Knicks could count on Anthony to shoot in 29 percent of possessions involved whereas Smith shot 20 percent of possessions involved and Felton shot 16 percent of the time.

Anthony, Smith and Felton played together 1177 minutes in 2013-2014. Anthony shot the ball 627 times, Smith 441 and Felton 315. The assist numbers when the three were together on the floor had Felton at 9.8 per 100 possessions, Anthony 4.6 per 100 and Smith was at 4.8 per 100 possessions.

All the above makes teammate Iman Shumpert’s comments make sense when he said the following;

“If we move the ball better, everyone will get better,’’ Shumpert said. “The ball is sticking. It’s from frustration, guys wanting to do more.’’

http://nypost.com/2013/11/26/knicks-rewind-whos-to-blame-for-lack-of-ball-movement/

Okay! We have enough information so I suppose it’s time to get around to deciding if Carmelo Anthony is a “ball stopper” and if this is a reason as to why he hasn’t led any NBA team he’s played on to a championship.

The answer is a resounding yes. The ball does stop with Anthony. He jacked up nearly 700 more shots than second leading scorer Smith and over 1000 more than Amar’e Stoudemire and Raymond Felton. While he may be the Knicks leading scorer he doesn’t make his teammates better as we’ve witnessed with his 7.8 points created by assists stat. It’s all about Melo and he’ll even tell you that. In fact I’ll let him tell you himself.

“I’m going to keep shooting.”

“I feel like the shots I took I can make. Someone else might think differently,” said Anthony, who is playing with a protective wrapping on his injured left shoulder. “Those are shots I can make and I have been making. I’m going to keep shooting… We’ll be a much better team come tomorrow.”

Remember the quote above is from the playoffs in 2013. Anthony was true to his word as he launched up 200 more shots than in 2012-2013. He did play 10 more games but he didn’t shoot any less than he did in that 2013 season.

There you have it. Anthony will keep on shooting no matter how it affects the team. This is what he does and how he’s always done it. Triangle or no Triangle the Knicks really don’t have the scorers for him to play any differently. He’ll still take the majority of the shots and if they fall the Knicks might win and if they don’t the Knicks will probably lose anyway so what’s the difference if the ball gets stuck or not?

As far as Anthony’s ball hogging, ball stopping affecting the Knicks ability to win a championship is concerned you bet it does. It will be interesting to see who will want to come to the Big Apple and play with Anthony from the free agent class of 2014-2015. That’s when you’ll find out what the big names available think in regards to playing with a ball stopping ball hog like Carmelo Anthony.

I knew Shump had popped off a couple times

The past year or so about players doing the right things

Playing the right way

F500ONE wrote:We have to hope Nix will be spot on this year

He's going way out on the very edge of the limb

Pushing all his chips in the Jose basket

Hopefully the triangle improves things like this

From a recent Fan Sided Article written about "Ball Stoppage"

The New York Knicks have a new President of Basketball Operations in Phil Jackson, a new Head Coach in Derek Fischer and new faces like Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert to replace the likes of Raymond Felton and Tyson Chandler. The Knicks have former Sixth Man of the Year J.R. Smith and second year shooting guard Tim Hardaway Jr. returning to the squad and allegedly this team will be running the famed “Triangle” offense that saw the Chicago Bulls win six NBA Championships and five championships for the Los Angeles Lakers.

They also have the heavily criticized NBA Superstar Carmelo Anthony returning to the fold to hopefully lead this team to their first Championship since the 1972-1973 Knicks defeated the Los Angeles Lakers.

Anthony is one of those “damned if he does damned if he doesn’t” type of athletes but there two major criticisms of Anthony that are not only legitimate but I think they go hand in hand. They would be;

1). That a Carmelo Anthony led team has never reached an NBA Final and;

2). That Carmelo Anthony doesn’t pass the ball and is essentially a “ball stopper”.

“Ball Stopper”, “ball hog” and not a “team player” are terms frequently associated with Anthony; in fact his hero Bernard King leveled a similar critique of Anthony on Twitter in 2013. Several other past NBA greats have made similar statements so this is nothing new. Let’s take a look and see if Kings comment made any inroads with the man they simply call “Melo”.

In 2013-2014 Anthony had 242 assists which was by far the most of his Knicks career. He also averaged 40.7 passes per game while averaging 3.1 assists per game (APG) out of 6.3 assist opportunities per game. I suppose one could blame the low assist average on the fact that his teammates didn’t shoot the ball all that particularly well in 2013-2014 but still that number is low compared to small forwards LeBron James (6.4), Kevin Durant (5.5), Gordon Hayward (5.2), Nicolas Batum (5.1) ,Chandler Parsons (4.0) and others.

Another statistic I like to use is “points created by assists” and in this category Anthony registered 7.8 per game and 9.6 per 48 minutes. His counterparts James (15.3, 19.4), Durant (12.8, 15.8), Batum (12.0, 15.9), Hayward (12.4, 16.2) and Parsons (9.5, 12.0) all fared much better than Anthony but neither this nor his APG can be used solely to indict Anthony as there are other factors involved.

In the 2013-2014 season Anthony played 5570 possessions for the Knicks which was nearly 2000 more than Felton and Smith. During those possessions Anthony launched 1643 shots, Smith 693 with Felton finishing third jacking up 564 shots. The Knicks could count on Anthony to shoot in 29 percent of possessions involved whereas Smith shot 20 percent of possessions involved and Felton shot 16 percent of the time.

Anthony, Smith and Felton played together 1177 minutes in 2013-2014. Anthony shot the ball 627 times, Smith 441 and Felton 315. The assist numbers when the three were together on the floor had Felton at 9.8 per 100 possessions, Anthony 4.6 per 100 and Smith was at 4.8 per 100 possessions.

All the above makes teammate Iman Shumpert’s comments make sense when he said the following;

“If we move the ball better, everyone will get better,’’ Shumpert said. “The ball is sticking. It’s from frustration, guys wanting to do more.’’

http://nypost.com/2013/11/26/knicks-rewind-whos-to-blame-for-lack-of-ball-movement/

Okay! We have enough information so I suppose it’s time to get around to deciding if Carmelo Anthony is a “ball stopper” and if this is a reason as to why he hasn’t led any NBA team he’s played on to a championship.

The answer is a resounding yes. The ball does stop with Anthony. He jacked up nearly 700 more shots than second leading scorer Smith and over 1000 more than Amar’e Stoudemire and Raymond Felton. While he may be the Knicks leading scorer he doesn’t make his teammates better as we’ve witnessed with his 7.8 points created by assists stat. It’s all about Melo and he’ll even tell you that. In fact I’ll let him tell you himself.

“I’m going to keep shooting.”

“I feel like the shots I took I can make. Someone else might think differently,” said Anthony, who is playing with a protective wrapping on his injured left shoulder. “Those are shots I can make and I have been making. I’m going to keep shooting… We’ll be a much better team come tomorrow.”

Remember the quote above is from the playoffs in 2013. Anthony was true to his word as he launched up 200 more shots than in 2012-2013. He did play 10 more games but he didn’t shoot any less than he did in that 2013 season.

There you have it. Anthony will keep on shooting no matter how it affects the team. This is what he does and how he’s always done it. Triangle or no Triangle the Knicks really don’t have the scorers for him to play any differently. He’ll still take the majority of the shots and if they fall the Knicks might win and if they don’t the Knicks will probably lose anyway so what’s the difference if the ball gets stuck or not?

As far as Anthony’s ball hogging, ball stopping affecting the Knicks ability to win a championship is concerned you bet it does. It will be interesting to see who will want to come to the Big Apple and play with Anthony from the free agent class of 2014-2015. That’s when you’ll find out what the big names available think in regards to playing with a ball stopping ball hog like Carmelo Anthony.

I knew Shump had popped off a couple times

The past year or so about players doing the right things

Playing the right way

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:2014/15 Jose Calderon>= 2012/13 Jason Kidd

No way jose, while he may be a floor general like kidd on the offensive side of things, he is not even 1/10th of a defender kidd was, and he is no where near the leader kidd was.

And I think this is where we can have a debate!

Yes, Kidd was probably a better leader than Calderon will be - but I think Calderon's shooting ability will be much better than what we got out of Kidd. Kidd was awesome first part of the season - then a downright liability second half and play offs. Didn't he go some absurd stretch (40 shots) without making a bucket or 3 pt shot.

Unless Calderon gets hurt, I'd expect really solid contributions all year- and to me, that puts him as a whole above what Kidd gave us his last season with us.

what happen if jose's shots aren't falling, he's useless.

His shot has always been there

Since his second season

I want someone to show me

Outside of his stint with Dallas

Where he's led his teams

To achieve peak results

He is getting older so parts of his game

May leave him and as you say, then what

Are we asking this of him though? I don't think he was traded for to become Steve Nash in his prime for us. IMO he was brought in to be a reliable shooting threat, ball mover, and positive locker room presence.

With Calderon, Jr, and Melo's outside shooting ability if we had an impact big that forced double teams they would have the makings of a real fun offense.

I think the bigs we have will be more than adequate. We have so much firepower from our guards and SF's that we only need our bigs to be solid and this team has a chance to be a top offensive team. STAT, Bargs, Jason, Dalembert and Cole should be able to get it done. We just need to keep proper spacing and the Ball and Player movement going at a crisp pace. There's too much scoring talent for this team not to be a very tough team to deal with.

I like the shooting we have with our PG's, SG's and SF's. Melo and Early can both stroke it and just need to be setup properly. Fish just has to get everyone to TRUST each other and the system. Keep the ball and palyer movement and great shots will present themselves. Having ball movers like Jose and Prigs in the mix will help a lot but others have to participate as well.