After looking at this video:

I believe the starting 5 is pretty much:
Calderone
JR Smith
Melo
Bargs
Amare

And they will focus on running the triangle with melo as the weak side post, and the initial triangle will be started by Calderone, with amare and bargs.

After they cut and clear out, amare will pitch back out to jr who will send it to melo and they will perform a two man game with Calderone there to bail them out.

See the Knicks offense in this video is devastating. So obvious we had zero offensive game plan.

Amare has a very improved jumpsuit from the top of the key and bargs stretches the defense to open the lanes.

The key is no thinking 7 seconds or less. The key is getting the defense turned around and running off of screens. Setting up to have a) everyone touch the ball and b) swing the ball to melo on the weak side.

With the exception of thjr, I don't see any other clear cut reasons to start anybody else after watching that video.

Any other starters are pure speculation and doubt of amare and bargs, but again, watching that video I see why amare and bargs blew. There literally was no offensive system other than give it to melo.

It's embarrassing seeing it isolated in video.

Amare hits his jumper. Bargs stretches the defense. Calderone facilitates the movement.

Jr and melo year apart the weak side defense.

Also, the triangle helps position the team better to get back on defense and defend against transition buckets.

That's how I see it.

POST UP ABILITY
MOVEMENT ON AND OFF THE BALL
ABILITY TO SPREAD THE FLOOR
HITTING THE OPEN MAN
EXPLOITING MATCH UPS
UNSELFISH TEAM PLAY
HIGH IQ PLAYERS
VERSTILE/SKILLED PLAYERS

while the lineup suggested does have some of those criteria's
HIGH IQ, UNSELFISH PLAY, VERSATILE PLAY, UNSELFISH BB, certainly doesn't fit that lineup

It should create one on one shots for Melo and wide open looks for Melo, JR etc. off the Pinch Post and motion off screens to the elbow. He can get post ups in the Triangle as well.

If Melo is patient in the offense he can get these kinds of post looks all day as the ball moves and the defense is caught unable to give help on Melo. Melo will also get open shots off screens and catch and shoot looks. Basically the team as a whole has to just follow the flow of the offense which will lead them to great looks if they cut hard and pass quickly.

yellowboy90 wrote:I was going to ask the question: Shouldn't people point to the 93-94 season(w/o Jordan) of the Bulls when the offense was run with Scottie Pippen as the primary weapon since he is also a 3. I wanted to ask that because most people point to Jordan and Kobe but they were both two guards. However, I ran across an article that answered my question.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

When the Bulls ran this offense in the ’90s, the key adaptation Jackson made was moving Scottie Pippen to the top of the key and playing Jordan as a forward (in Los Angeles, he made a similar tweak with Lamar Odom and Bryant).

I do hope that Phil does see the importance of the 3 and bends a little.

In general, Jackson sees the league imprudently moving away from post-oriented sets: “The game is evolving into a 3-point shooting game. You can’t win a championship with a European offense, like what Phoenix has run for the past few years. But that seems to be the style people are copying. My issue with a team like Miami is always, ‘Who is going to score in the post?’ An interior game is still key, even if you don’t have a high-scoring center. Clearly, that’s what Dallas has with Dirk [Nowitzki], and that was the difference in last year’s championship series.”

This article was authored a few years ago so maybe Phil has changed and more importantly Fisher realize some of the benefits of using the 3.

What do you mean using the 3? I read everything but I'm just confused what your trying to say.

yellowboy90 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I was going to ask the question: Shouldn't people point to the 93-94 season(w/o Jordan) of the Bulls when the offense was run with Scottie Pippen as the primary weapon since he is also a 3. I wanted to ask that because most people point to Jordan and Kobe but they were both two guards. However, I ran across an article that answered my question.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

When the Bulls ran this offense in the ’90s, the key adaptation Jackson made was moving Scottie Pippen to the top of the key and playing Jordan as a forward (in Los Angeles, he made a similar tweak with Lamar Odom and Bryant).

I do hope that Phil does see the importance of the 3 and bends a little.

In general, Jackson sees the league imprudently moving away from post-oriented sets: “The game is evolving into a 3-point shooting game. You can’t win a championship with a European offense, like what Phoenix has run for the past few years. But that seems to be the style people are copying. My issue with a team like Miami is always, ‘Who is going to score in the post?’ An interior game is still key, even if you don’t have a high-scoring center. Clearly, that’s what Dallas has with Dirk [Nowitzki], and that was the difference in last year’s championship series.”

This article was authored a few years ago so maybe Phil has changed and more importantly Fisher realize some of the benefits of using the 3.

What do you mean using the 3? I read everything but I'm just confused what your trying to say.

I should have reworded it. I went from talking about the position 3 and went into talking about shooting 3s. Sorry.

Cool I get what you are saying just wanted to make sure I wasn't the one that was dyslexic lol

RonRon wrote:The Triangle is predicated on

POST UP ABILITY
MOVEMENT ON AND OFF THE BALL
ABILITY TO SPREAD THE FLOOR
HITTING THE OPEN MAN
EXPLOITING MATCH UPS
UNSELFISH TEAM PLAY
HIGH IQ PLAYERS
VERSTILE/SKILLED PLAYERS

while the lineup suggested does have some of those criteria's
HIGH IQ, UNSELFISH PLAY, VERSATILE PLAY, UNSELFISH BB, certainly doesn't fit that lineup

Exactly...
And also who will defend? This group cannot defend WNBA team.

babyKnicks wrote:

arkrud wrote:

RonRon wrote:The Triangle is predicated on

POST UP ABILITY
MOVEMENT ON AND OFF THE BALL
ABILITY TO SPREAD THE FLOOR
HITTING THE OPEN MAN
EXPLOITING MATCH UPS
UNSELFISH TEAM PLAY
HIGH IQ PLAYERS
VERSTILE/SKILLED PLAYERS

while the lineup suggested does have some of those criteria's
HIGH IQ, UNSELFISH PLAY, VERSATILE PLAY, UNSELFISH BB, certainly doesn't fit that lineup

Exactly...
And also who will defend? This group cannot defend WNBA team.

i believe the triangle is setup to always put the team in better positions to defend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/sports/basketball/phil-jacksons-focus-his-inner-circle-and-the-triangle.html?_r=0

“The triangle offense is one of the best offenses to run,” he said at the team’s training center April 3,
“because it’s balance, and because players can play defense out of an offense like that.

So instead of having stretched players who are standing in corners and have to recover,
you have guys who are in balance, and there’s an opportunity to defend from your offense.
That’s how the game connects.”

Ask yourself a better question, who on cleveland will defend?

The constant self loathing of the team "not being able to defend" is in part predicated a little on how they played offense and their defensive scheme (e.g. switching)

EDIT:
Watching the games, a majority of the losses were not due to any one person not being able to defend, but a collective unit not defending as a team.

Who really in this league can DEFEND as you put it? We know who can't, but other than Lebron, who can?

Defense will be Cleveland weakness and the reason they will not get the chip this season.
And LeBron knows this better that anybody and keeps fans expectations low.
Team can outscore people to get into playoffs but defense is what makes teams go deep and very good defense what makes to win it all in NBA.
Individual and team defense. Yes - you need both to win.
In your lineup you have 2 people with OK defense and 3 worst defenders in NBA.
You need to cover for this 3 people. This will be a comic show and I do not think Fish/Zen want to be embarrassed.

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:If you watch clips of the Jordan bulls, they weren't cutting hard and passing precisely. It's not really about that. It's more about knowing what to do and knowing where guys are supposed to be on the court. Guys coming into the game all know what they are supposed to do at any given time.

The summer league kids stuck to the offense even when they were struggling and it eventually brought then good success even when trailing in the 4th. The offense is always something to go back to when things seem disorganized. If they just run the offense they will win a lot of games because they will just be so much more organized than most teams.

The knicks has a lot more talent overall than any Phil coached team. Doesn't mean we're going to win 60 games, but we have the potential to be very successful if everyone comes into camp in shape and ready to play everyday. We can't have guys coming in hurt or taking practice time off. Those that are ready to play should play. No favorites and no special treatment. No starting because you want to respect guys egos. You play people that come to work every day. If we do that we will be very good

I agree, i keep thinking melo can easily have an mvp season this yr, i mean the post up mid range game is his peanut butter & jelly.

slashing and cutting, our wings, shump, jr and THJ..Bread & Butter

Mid range elbow shot--AB had more success in that area then any part of the court

Amare- with his hakeem spin, mid range shot..bread & butter

And if you start, Jose, Jr, melo, thats enough 3 point shooting to keep defenses honest.

That was my thinking and i also think Melo's and Amare defense were highly underrated last year.

We may get gobbled up by a dominant big man, but that's when we substitute key defensive specialists.

but to start the game, the starting 5 of:
Calderone, JR, Melo, Bargs, Amare.

This team can play very much collected defense...one thing about bargs, he plays very good man to man defense...and I'm not just making that up, that's from watching the games, he generally got lost in all the switching, but when he manned up against other key bigs, he won.

Against Dwight Howard:

Against John Wall:

And My FAVORITE AGAINST GARNETT!