In Amare's best season's he's averaged 23,25 and 26pts per game... He's averaged 9 rebounds a few times. Career averages of 20/8.

Bargnani is in the next tier. His best season he averaged 21 pts per game. Career averages of 15/5.

If these guys performed up to their highest level, the knicks would be title contenders.

I'm up thinking of players we could hypothetically sub in for Amare's and Bangs in today's nba that do basically what they did at their highest level.

Can we play that game? How good could we be if these guys were on top of their games? How good would the Knicks be if they had their 2014 equivalent?

Their player equivalents would be lamarcus Aldridge for Amare, and Ryan Anderson for Bargnani....

how Good would the knicks be if we could sub those to players in and amare and bargs out?

Ryan Anderson off the bench

or

Ryan Anderson
Melo
Lamarcus
Calderón
Smith

how good is this group?

yellowboy90 wrote:Bargs used to be a top 10 pf/c? When was this?

The year he averaged 21pts per he was top 10.....wiseguy

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

If these guys performed up to their highest level, the knicks would be title contenders.

No, actually, they wouldn't.

Both players are useful, in certain situations and lineups, but neither are guys you can build around. They were very well paid because they offered size and frankly if you are 7 feet tall, can play some center in the NBA and walk and chew gum, you can get a nice fat paycheck from some team in the league.

Bargnani cannot play defense and can't defend the rim. He offers no low post offense. He's a shooter but not an elite gunner like a Dirk Nowitski, he's not even a gunner Stretch 5 at the level of Channing Frye. He can be a useful reserve big man on a team that can cover up his weaknesses in their 2nd unit. However he was drafted and paid on his potential, not on his actual production and ability.

STAT was lethal in his prime as a face up small ball center. He is clueless defensively. Sorry to say it, but STAT is really a low BB IQ type guy who relied on his plus athleticism for his career. You'll never mistake him for a cerebral thinking mans type big man like Duncan or Gasol, where you can see smart crafty interior play. STAT clogs the lane, has no low post offense, isn't an elite shooter from long range and can't defend the rim. Again, another case of a guy who would be useful now as a reserve big man in a deep rotation. Players who rely on their athleticism and not strong fundamentals and don't constantly expand their skill set become liabilities in the league.

You could win a title if these were your 5th and 6th big men in your 15 man roster. Both players are really strong examples of why the NBA should have widespread use of non guaranteed contracts and a hard cap. STAT would be much more appreciated for what he can do now if he was making 3 million a year as a reserve big man playing 15 minutes a night on some contenders roster.

STAT, IMHO, just doesn't get it. I really think he is clueless on defense. All you can do is watch him in post game interviews avoiding the obvious question of why he makes so much and does so little besides wear those stupid hats. Bargnani fits more into the "I Got Paid, I Don't Care" category. While he wouldn't be an All Star at full effort, his lack of effort is insulting.

To see a big man with the "right attitude" see Joaquim Noah of the Bulls. Not the most talented guy in the league, but simply worked and worked and worked and fought and bled to become the player he is today. Noah has squeezed every last ounce of his talent and what he has to give and puts it on the floor every single night. At some level, good defense is about effort. If STAT and/or Bargnani had even 1/10th of Noah's heart, they'd be more useful bigs for the Knicks.

At some level, you have to feel for Tyson Chandler. Every single Knicks game for him was like the movie 300. He was the last and only line of real defense and it was like 3 million Persian troops trying to massacre him every single night.

Long drawn out bunch of bull****.

amare sucks and i hate him, but in his prime he was a top 10 nba player. All I'm saying is if he was still capable of dropping 26pts a game without breaking down we'd be contenders. That's not bull****.

Bargs averaged 21pts per one year 17 and 19 points in two other seasons. Channing is incapable of doing that. All I'm saying if Bargs was as focused offensively as he was in his best years we'd be contenders.

I'm not talking about building around them. I'm talking about inserting these guys at their highest levels into the team we have now. That's all.

It's a hypothetical thread dag nabbit

EnySpree wrote:They both used to be two of the top 10 power fwd/centers in the nba....

In Amare's best season's he's averaged 23,25 and 26pts per game... He's averaged 9 rebounds a few times. Career averages of 20/8.

Bargnani is in the next tier. His best season he averaged 21 pts per game. Career averages of 15/5.

If these guys performed up to their highest level, the knicks would be title contenders.

I'm up thinking of players we could hypothetically sub in for Amare's and Bangs in today's nba that do basically what they did at their highest level.

Can we play that game? How good could we be if these guys were on top of their games? How good would the Knicks be if they had their 2014 equivalent?

Their player equivalents would be lamarcus Aldridge for Amare, and Ryan Anderson for Bargnani....

how Good would the knicks be if we could sub those to players in and amare and bargs out?

Has Bargs ever carried a team on his shoulders and get them a winning record? Even his best season wasn't particularly good. Amat'e used to be good- at his best, I think his last season in Pheonix, he looked like one of the best players in the game in the second half of that season- dragged his team to the playoffs. Comparing Bargs to Amar'e is like comparing Darko to Chris Webber

EnySpree wrote:Lamarcus Aldridge
Melo
Dalembert
Calderón
Smith

Ryan Anderson off the bench

or

Ryan Anderson
Melo
Lamarcus
Calderón
Smith

how good is this group?

What do you guys think of this?

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

Bargs at the top of his game still sucks- that's just a fact! He doesn't do anything particularly well, and certainly not well enough to cancel out his negatives. At least Amar'e can score well and with a high FG%, Bargs can't even do that!

EnySpree wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

Bargs at the top of his game still sucks- that's just a fact! He doesn't do anything particularly well, and certainly not well enough to cancel out his negatives. At least Amar'e can score well and with a high FG%, Bargs can't even do that!

averaging 21pts per game in the nba doesn't mean you suck....regardless if you don't like the guy or think he can't play defense, or score about 50% from the field. At his best he averaged 21pts per game....its only one season, but in this thread I'm only talking about his best year....

You guys suck and you don't know how to play

In the two seasons Bargs averaged 21 points his TS% and eFG% ranked below the league average. This is indicative of a guy who isn't as great a scorer as his PPG leads one to believe.

EnySpree wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

Bargs at the top of his game still sucks- that's just a fact! He doesn't do anything particularly well, and certainly not well enough to cancel out his negatives. At least Amar'e can score well and with a high FG%, Bargs can't even do that!

averaging 21pts per game in the nba doesn't mean you suck....regardless if you don't like the guy or think he can't play defense, or score about 50% from the field. At his best he averaged 21pts per game....its only one season, but in this thread I'm only talking about his best year....

You guys suck and you don't know how to play

the raptors went 22-60 the season bargnani averaged 21.4 points per game. what does that tell you about the importance of scoring 21 points a game in the nba?

some numbers to consider during "his best year" as you put it:

17.8 FGA @ 44.8% with 34.5% from 3
1.8 assists and 2.3 turnovers
5.2 rebounds
28.2 usage and 8.8 assist rate
53.3 TS%

as i have said several times now, he is a decent midrange shooter. if he sticks to that part of the floor and learns to pass the ****ing rock a bit to baseline cutters that'll be a plus. still won't make him a good and solid player. zero-sum is this guy's ceiling.

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Yeah you know it alls....so even if these guys were at the top of their games we would still suck? You guys are a bunch of miserable bastards....

Bargs at the top of his game still sucks- that's just a fact! He doesn't do anything particularly well, and certainly not well enough to cancel out his negatives. At least Amar'e can score well and with a high FG%, Bargs can't even do that!

averaging 21pts per game in the nba doesn't mean you suck....regardless if you don't like the guy or think he can't play defense, or score about 50% from the field. At his best he averaged 21pts per game....its only one season, but in this thread I'm only talking about his best year....

You guys suck and you don't know how to play

the raptors went 22-60 the season bargnani averaged 21.4 points per game. what does that tell you about the importance of scoring 21 points a game in the nba?

some numbers to consider during "his best year" as you put it:

17.8 FGA @ 44.8% with 34.5% from 3
1.8 assists and 2.3 turnovers
5.2 rebounds
28.2 usage and 8.8 assist rate
53.3 TS%

as i have said several times now, he is a decent midrange shooter. if he sticks to that part of the floor and learns to pass the ****ing rock a bit to baseline cutters that'll be a plus. still won't make him a good and solid player. zero-sum is this guy's ceiling.

this thread isn't asking about ceiling....its saying if they guy was playing at that level...along ith Amre playing at his highest level...the knicks would be better off....then I add for you posters to come up with players you would sub out Amare and Bargs for.....I used Aldridge and Ryan Anderson.

Here's the thing. We saw a sample of what Amare can do even at this stage of his career at the end of last season.

DATE   MIN   FGM-FGA   FG%   3PM-3PA   3P%   FTM-FTA   FT%   REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF   TO   PTS
March  28.4  7.1-12.4  .569  0.0-0.0   .000  2.7-3.4   .792  6.6  0.7  0.7  0.1  2.8  1.3  16.9
April  27.9  5.1-8.1   .632  0.0-0.0   .000  3.9-4.6   .844  5.3  0.9  1.0  0.3  2.3  1.0  14.1

Amar'e is very efficient and should be getting more shots than he had in April. Amar'e under 30 mpg and 12 or more shots a game is gonna be good for this team.

I do think that Bargs can get his mojo back this year. He's had a summer where he can work on his game and conditioning, unlike last year when he was seriously ill. Add to the fact that his game fits the Triangle and he'll have Jose here along with Prigs and Larkin who are all good and willing passers. This should help Bargs to get the ball in his best most efficient spots and to not get froze out like he did at times last year. Before Bargs got demoralized he started the year 16/6/1.3. Despite what people think Bargs is a very good man defender and he can block shots. IMO both players can help this team. My guess is that Phil knows how to get his bigs going based on his results in LA.

It will be most interesting to see how Fish decides to play defense this year. It will be very interesting to see how they coach defensive technique, spacing and proper defense of the PnR. Felton was so bad at it last year that even with Tyson we couldn't defend the PnR. Jose isn't a good athlete and will also be a liability on D. Still this is why the Knicks MUST be an EFFICIENT offensive team. It will be important that the Knicks develop a defensive scheme that is designed to close off penetration with good help D. I don't know what Woody was doing in practice with the Knicks but their approach to guarding PnR was very odd. Here is a scheme that the Knicks could use.