CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Dagger wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Dagger wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:he's young. there's still hope for Paul George

Hope that he won't become Melo? Lol

Don't worry he doesn't have the offensive skillset

lolz

lolza we're paying $35mil more for a player who attempts 4 more FGA/gm, only averages 6ppg more, & 6yrs older than George

only $35mil more? Isn't it for like $90mil more for Melo?

George is a max player. Just for a lesser amount cause he's younger.

5 years/91 million. I believe it's the most he could get at his age, etc.

I could care less about Max labels.

Melo should not be paid more than the Blake's PG's Rose's Westbrook's of the NBA

Especially after he's already made 2 Max worthy contracts///// Denver and our extension

He probably should be making what Harden is making at best $80mil.

It's one thing I hope the new CBA establishes with definitive language who qualifies as Max talents

That's impossible, don't be silly.

There's nothing silly about what I said.

There's language in the NBA currently defining Rookie Scale Max///// often referred to as Derrick Rose Max

Go look it up if you think I'm bluffing

The rookie scale is calculated by draft pick number. That's based on a number, what you're suggesting is purely subjective. How do you think it should be determined (in your hypothetical example) who gets the max? What determinants would be used to say this player is truly worth a Max and this one isn't?

There's this wonderful tool I used to find this information.

I fired up another tab in my browser locating it on this thing called the internet

According to a memo NBPA Executive Director Billy Hunter sent to his Board of Directors, the tentative agreement between the NBPA and NBA included the following change for max salaries:

“Max Salary: A player finishing his rookie scale contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 30% of the Cap (up from 25%) if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA 2 times; an All-Star starter 2 times; or 1-time MVP.”

They need to add more language here as you graduate to the different levels of Max.

So 35% Max which comes in seasons 7-9 I believe could say something like

According to a memo NBPA Executive Director Billy Hunter sent to his Board of Directors, the tentative agreement between the NBPA and NBA included the following change for max salaries:

“Max Salary: A player finishing his last season of deal contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 35% of the Cap if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd team All-NBA 4 times; an All-Star starter 4 times; or 1-time MVP; Made it Out Of The First Round of Playoffs 4 times; Been to 3 Conference Finals; Been to the Finals; Won a Championship; Led The League In Scoring in Back-to-Back Seasons; etc etc.”

Every player can't be considered an absolute Max every time they're due up for a contract, just because they maintained status quo play.

That is great information. Can you provide the link where you found that? On a side note, that sounds very ownership friendly coming from a guy that represents and negotiates for the players.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one [Scroll Down]

When I said I wasn't bluffing I wasn't

Hey fisherman fishlips dude or whoever you are take notes.

When someone ask for links provide them

There's a reason the owners wanted this language in the new deal.

Dollars to Apple Fritters it gets modified again

My guess it was to prevent Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas type deals from taking place again

We have Derrick Rose Max, Kobe Max-Super Max

In the new deal I want to see 'No Melo Max'.

What you quoted isn't in the link you provided. I read up on this stuff. That is like insider info. Post the link to the Hunter memos please.

It's there you must have skim read

• 2005 CBA: Six years with 10.5 percent raises for Bird free agents; five years with 8 percent raises for other players. Maximum salaries are approximately 25, 30 or 35 percent of the salary cap, depending on the player's years of service.

• 2011 CBA: Five years with 7.5 percent raises for Bird free agents; four years with 4.5 percent raises for other players (including all sign-and-trade transactions). The maximum salaries are the same as the 2005 CBA, except players coming off their rookie scale contracts qualify for the 30 percent maximum if they meet certain criteria. Minimum and rookie scale salaries are frozen near their 2010-11 levels until revenues rise enough that the reduction is proportional to the 12 percent reduction in the overall system.

• Who benefits? These changes provide the league with more cost control. The exception is the higher maximum salary for fifth-year players who meet certain league honors (MVP, an all-NBA team member twice, or an All-Star twice), which lets young superstars (think Derrick Rose) cash in with a bigger contract sooner.

The higher maximum salary for fifth-year players can also benefit teams. In 2006 LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh all signed shorter extensions (which allowed them to become free agents in three years) rather than signing on for the maximum five years. The three players timed their free agency to follow their seventh season in the league, when they became eligible for the 30 percent maximum. Allowing franchise players such as these to sign for the higher maximum sooner reduces the temptation for these players to sign shorter contracts, delaying their eventual free agency.

There are other links I could have provided but this should suffice as it comes directly from an ESPN source.

The other quotes I had came from a different source not as readily accepted but solid

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Dagger wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Dagger wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:he's young. there's still hope for Paul George

Hope that he won't become Melo? Lol

Don't worry he doesn't have the offensive skillset

lolz

lolza we're paying $35mil more for a player who attempts 4 more FGA/gm, only averages 6ppg more, & 6yrs older than George

only $35mil more? Isn't it for like $90mil more for Melo?

George is a max player. Just for a lesser amount cause he's younger.

5 years/91 million. I believe it's the most he could get at his age, etc.

I could care less about Max labels.

Melo should not be paid more than the Blake's PG's Rose's Westbrook's of the NBA

Especially after he's already made 2 Max worthy contracts///// Denver and our extension

He probably should be making what Harden is making at best $80mil.

It's one thing I hope the new CBA establishes with definitive language who qualifies as Max talents

That's impossible, don't be silly.

There's nothing silly about what I said.

There's language in the NBA currently defining Rookie Scale Max///// often referred to as Derrick Rose Max

Go look it up if you think I'm bluffing

The rookie scale is calculated by draft pick number. That's based on a number, what you're suggesting is purely subjective. How do you think it should be determined (in your hypothetical example) who gets the max? What determinants would be used to say this player is truly worth a Max and this one isn't?

There's this wonderful tool I used to find this information.

I fired up another tab in my browser locating it on this thing called the internet

According to a memo NBPA Executive Director Billy Hunter sent to his Board of Directors, the tentative agreement between the NBPA and NBA included the following change for max salaries:

“Max Salary: A player finishing his rookie scale contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 30% of the Cap (up from 25%) if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA 2 times; an All-Star starter 2 times; or 1-time MVP.”

They need to add more language here as you graduate to the different levels of Max.

So 35% Max which comes in seasons 7-9 I believe could say something like

According to a memo NBPA Executive Director Billy Hunter sent to his Board of Directors, the tentative agreement between the NBPA and NBA included the following change for max salaries:

“Max Salary: A player finishing his last season of deal contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 35% of the Cap if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd team All-NBA 4 times; an All-Star starter 4 times; or 1-time MVP; Made it Out Of The First Round of Playoffs 4 times; Been to 3 Conference Finals; Been to the Finals; Won a Championship; Led The League In Scoring in Back-to-Back Seasons; etc etc.”

Every player can't be considered an absolute Max every time they're due up for a contract, just because they maintained status quo play.

That is great information. Can you provide the link where you found that? On a side note, that sounds very ownership friendly coming from a guy that represents and negotiates for the players.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one [Scroll Down]

When I said I wasn't bluffing I wasn't

Hey fisherman fishlips dude or whoever you are take notes.

When someone ask for links provide them

There's a reason the owners wanted this language in the new deal.

Dollars to Apple Fritters it gets modified again

My guess it was to prevent Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas type deals from taking place again

We have Derrick Rose Max, Kobe Max-Super Max

In the new deal I want to see 'No Melo Max'.

What you quoted isn't in the link you provided. I read up on this stuff. That is like insider info. Post the link to the Hunter memos please.

It's there you must have skim read

• 2005 CBA: Six years with 10.5 percent raises for Bird free agents; five years with 8 percent raises for other players. Maximum salaries are approximately 25, 30 or 35 percent of the salary cap, depending on the player's years of service.

• 2011 CBA: Five years with 7.5 percent raises for Bird free agents; four years with 4.5 percent raises for other players (including all sign-and-trade transactions). The maximum salaries are the same as the 2005 CBA, except players coming off their rookie scale contracts qualify for the 30 percent maximum if they meet certain criteria. Minimum and rookie scale salaries are frozen near their 2010-11 levels until revenues rise enough that the reduction is proportional to the 12 percent reduction in the overall system.

• Who benefits? These changes provide the league with more cost control. The exception is the higher maximum salary for fifth-year players who meet certain league honors (MVP, an all-NBA team member twice, or an All-Star twice), which lets young superstars (think Derrick Rose) cash in with a bigger contract sooner.

The higher maximum salary for fifth-year players can also benefit teams. In 2006 LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh all signed shorter extensions (which allowed them to become free agents in three years) rather than signing on for the maximum five years. The three players timed their free agency to follow their seventh season in the league, when they became eligible for the 30 percent maximum. Allowing franchise players such as these to sign for the higher maximum sooner reduces the temptation for these players to sign shorter contracts, delaying their eventual free agency.

There are other links I could have provided but this should suffice as it comes directly from an ESPN source.

The other quotes I had came from a different source not as readily accepted but solid

F500ONE wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:he's young. there's still hope for Paul George

Hope that he won't become Melo? Lol

Don't worry he doesn't have the offensive skillset

lolz

lolza we're paying $35mil more for a player who attempts 4 more FGA/gm, only averages 6ppg more, & 6yrs older than George

only $35mil more? Isn't it for like $90mil more for Melo?

George is a max player. Just for a lesser amount cause he's younger.

5 years/91 million. I believe it's the most he could get at his age, etc.

I could care less about Max labels.

Melo should not be paid more than the Blake's PG's Rose's Westbrook's of the NBA

Especially after he's already made 2 Max worthy contracts///// Denver and our extension

He probably should be making what Harden is making at best $80mil.

It's one thing I hope the new CBA establishes with definitive language who qualifies as Max talents

Did I say or imply anything about Melo? Jeez. Hate him or love him people are way too touchy about the guy. Someone posted about George's salary so I replied with the numbers. NOWHERE did I imply this had anything to do with Melo.

Once it's brought up in a debate conversation anyone can feel free to investigate if you doubt

If someone provides at least 1 link but maybe subject is still unclear keep searching for more pertinent info.

I couldn't find the other link I had and used Google to find a better one like this

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-07-13/Derrick-Rose-gets-rule-in-new-NBA-CBA/56188340/1

It allows young players to collect maximum deals worth 30% of the salary cap on their second contract if they meet certain requirements. Previously, the max salary was 25% of the salary cap for players with less than six years of NBA experience.

It should be nicknamed the Chris Paul Rule.

The veteran Los Angeles Clippers point guard, and the only All-Star on the National Basketball Players Association executive committee, came up with the idea so exceptional young players could cash in even more on their second contract.

"Being a part of that executive committee, what I brought to the table was a max player perspective," Paul told USA TODAY Sports. "I wasn't going to let up on it."

It is officially called the Fifth Year 30% Max Rule, and Chicago Bulls point guard Derrick Rose qualified for it because he was named NBA MVP while still on his rookie scale contract, and Oklahoma City Thunder forward Kevin Durant qualified because he was All-NBA first team in 2009-10 and 2010-11, his third and fourth NBA seaons.

A player still on his rookie scale contract can collect the 30% max on his next deal if he meets one of the following criteria:

-- Named to the All-NBA first, second or third team two times.

-- Voted an All-Star starter two times.

-- Named regular-season MVP one time.

It wasn't an easy sell. Beyond arguing about basketball-related income and competitive balance, Paul injected a cost-escalating measure into the equation for owners, who were arguing to reduce the amount they paid to players.

At first, owners resisted but ultimately acquiesced at some point during collective bargaining.

"It was important," Paul said. "Obviously those meetings get a little heated."

Paul's first four years in the NBA were the inspiration for the rule. He led the team in assists and steals and was either the first, second or third leading scorer on the team in his first four seasons with the Hornets.

Paul would have qualified for the max 30% deal after his fourth season because he was named first-team All-NBA in 2007-2008 and second-team All-NBA in 2008-2009.

"The toughest part was to see what was going to be the prerequisites in order to give players that opportunity to receive that five-year, $95 million," Paul said. "That's a significant difference."

Indeed, it is a significant different. Instead of making $12,922,194 million last season, Durant made $15,506,623, a $2,584,429 increase. Over the life of the five-year deal, Durant will make $89.16 million instead of $74.3 million - a $14.86 million difference.

Clippers forward Blake Griffin, who left the U.S. men's Olympic basketball camp after tearing the meniscus in his left knee during preparations for the London Games, has to the potential to cash in on this deal. Already an All-Star starter and All-NBA second team, Griffin just needs to earn one of those honors to qualify for the 30% max contract. It could be the difference between a $78.6 million deal and $94.3 million deal.

Will Griffin owe his Paul a nice dinner if he qualifies?

"We'll see about that," Griffin said.

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Dagger wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Dagger wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:he's young. there's still hope for Paul George

Hope that he won't become Melo? Lol

Don't worry he doesn't have the offensive skillset

lolz

lolza we're paying $35mil more for a player who attempts 4 more FGA/gm, only averages 6ppg more, & 6yrs older than George

only $35mil more? Isn't it for like $90mil more for Melo?

George is a max player. Just for a lesser amount cause he's younger.

5 years/91 million. I believe it's the most he could get at his age, etc.

I could care less about Max labels.

Melo should not be paid more than the Blake's PG's Rose's Westbrook's of the NBA

Especially after he's already made 2 Max worthy contracts///// Denver and our extension

He probably should be making what Harden is making at best $80mil.

It's one thing I hope the new CBA establishes with definitive language who qualifies as Max talents

That's impossible, don't be silly.

There's nothing silly about what I said.

There's language in the NBA currently defining Rookie Scale Max///// often referred to as Derrick Rose Max

Go look it up if you think I'm bluffing

The rookie scale is calculated by draft pick number. That's based on a number, what you're suggesting is purely subjective. How do you think it should be determined (in your hypothetical example) who gets the max? What determinants would be used to say this player is truly worth a Max and this one isn't?

There's this wonderful tool I used to find this information.

I fired up another tab in my browser locating it on this thing called the internet

According to a memo NBPA Executive Director Billy Hunter sent to his Board of Directors, the tentative agreement between the NBPA and NBA included the following change for max salaries:

“Max Salary: A player finishing his rookie scale contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 30% of the Cap (up from 25%) if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA 2 times; an All-Star starter 2 times; or 1-time MVP.”

They need to add more language here as you graduate to the different levels of Max.

So 35% Max which comes in seasons 7-9 I believe could say something like

According to a memo NBPA Executive Director Billy Hunter sent to his Board of Directors, the tentative agreement between the NBPA and NBA included the following change for max salaries:

“Max Salary: A player finishing his last season of deal contract will be eligible to receive a maximum salary equal to 35% of the Cap if he signs with his prior team and is either: 1st, 2nd team All-NBA 4 times; an All-Star starter 4 times; or 1-time MVP; Made it Out Of The First Round of Playoffs 4 times; Been to 3 Conference Finals; Been to the Finals; Won a Championship; Led The League In Scoring in Back-to-Back Seasons; etc etc.”

Every player can't be considered an absolute Max every time they're due up for a contract, just because they maintained status quo play.

That is great information. Can you provide the link where you found that? On a side note, that sounds very ownership friendly coming from a guy that represents and negotiates for the players.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one [Scroll Down]

When I said I wasn't bluffing I wasn't

Hey fisherman fishlips dude or whoever you are take notes.

When someone ask for links provide them

There's a reason the owners wanted this language in the new deal.

Dollars to Apple Fritters it gets modified again

My guess it was to prevent Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas type deals from taking place again

We have Derrick Rose Max, Kobe Max-Super Max

In the new deal I want to see 'No Melo Max'.

What you quoted isn't in the link you provided. I read up on this stuff. That is like insider info. Post the link to the Hunter memos please.

actually crush, it is in there, I read it.. there is a criteria for these guys coming off their rookie deals to get the full 30% max, and they they mentioned it.. like twice all star, all nba team, or MVP... It is clearly there... and this was not in the previous agreement which was signed in 2005..

Uptown wrote:If George were a Knick we'd tear him a part for being a selfish SOB. But he's on the opposition so we'll praise him for stepping up and being an assassin...

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Actions speak louder than words. Melo may not say what Paul said but he has no problems shooting 30% on 30 shots for his career in the playoffs

I highly doubt Paul will look to average Melo's 25 shot attempts this year but if he does you can bet he will shoot a higher percentage than Melo. He shoots well vs elite defensive teams. Melo shoots in the 30's vs the Chicago, Miami & Indiana's of the world

Melo shot 43% against the Bulls last season; 45% against the Heat; 44% against the the Pacers and 50% against the Spurs.....but if you say so.

Last year was the Melo show. What did he shoot the year before, when you know, the games mattered? And the team hadn;t completely circum to Melo

His TS was the same 56 vs 56.1. His WS48 was higher the year before too.

Stop these uncorroborated statements please. He has been quite efficient as a Knick.

I wouldn't go that far. He's been above average in efficiency. That's not even top 100.

So he hasn't been efficient as a Knick? He didn't say he was elite he said he has been efficient and he has. Efficient at a very high usg.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Actions speak louder than words. Melo may not say what Paul said but he has no problems shooting 30% on 30 shots for his career in the playoffs

I highly doubt Paul will look to average Melo's 25 shot attempts this year but if he does you can bet he will shoot a higher percentage than Melo. He shoots well vs elite defensive teams. Melo shoots in the 30's vs the Chicago, Miami & Indiana's of the world

Melo shot 43% against the Bulls last season; 45% against the Heat; 44% against the the Pacers and 50% against the Spurs.....but if you say so.

Last year was the Melo show. What did he shoot the year before, when you know, the games mattered? And the team hadn;t completely circum to Melo

His TS was the same 56 vs 56.1. His WS48 was higher the year before too.

Stop these uncorroborated statements please. He has been quite efficient as a Knick.

I wouldn't go that far. He's been above average in efficiency. That's not even top 100.

So he hasn't been efficient as a Knick? He didn't say he was elite he said he has been efficient and he has. Efficient at a very high usg.

Are there over 100 players in the NBA you'd describe as "quite efficient"?
You're right that his usage is high. And good (but not great) efficiency at a high volume is better than good efficiency at a low volume.
But Mreinman just mentioned efficiency, not volume. My comment probably stems from my disagreement with Mreinman that Melo is currently playing at the level of a super max contract player. As far as I know, we both don't like his contract over the long-term but we disagree on whether it's good value even in the upcoming season. If Melo's not going to excel at anything other than scoring, he'd have to be very efficient (not top 100) at high volume for me to ignore the other weaknesses and give him a super max contract for the upcoming season.

Id they are above league avg efficiency then they are efficient. I do separate efficiency levels with usg but that's just me. Also the fact that you continue to say that he only excels at scoring when he is an above avg rebounder for a wing is another issue. You bringing up the contract has nothing to do with what he said and like you said stem from your own issues.

gunsnewing wrote:Had Melo had sign for $115 it would've at least allows the Knicks to add 2 players to mak up for his difficiences. I would've been fine with Melo, curry & Marc gasol for example. Now we are looking at adding castaways likes josh smith and Brandon Jennings.

It's a shame they are going I waste the Phil and Derek era. Just like they wasted every previous respected GM & coach we'v gone through in 15yrs

Really, where do you come up with this stuff. There's no way they were going to get those two players or two max players anyway. The idea that they would settle for castaways is silly since they have not given you any basis to make those claims. IF they want castaways like them or even those players they could get them right now.

Any team can have those two players. I bet a pkg around Amar'e can get them right now just so Detroit can move on without them.

Uptown wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Actions speak louder than words. Melo may not say what Paul said but he has no problems shooting 30% on 30 shots for his career in the playoffs

I highly doubt Paul will look to average Melo's 25 shot attempts this year but if he does you can bet he will shoot a higher percentage than Melo. He shoots well vs elite defensive teams. Melo shoots in the 30's vs the Chicago, Miami & Indiana's of the world

Melo shot 43% against the Bulls last season; 45% against the Heat; 44% against the the Pacers and 50% against the Spurs.....but if you say so.

Last year was the Melo show. What did he shoot the year before, when you know, the games mattered? And the team hadn;t completely circum to Melo

When he games mattered, Melo finished in the top 5 for the MVP voting.