gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.

Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.

Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency

Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.html

Look at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.

For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists

And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played

So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.

Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.

I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.

I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.

Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.

What were their 4th quarter numbers?

I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.

Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston

here is melo by the numbers against indiana:

28.5 ppg on 42.8%FG and averaging 25 shots per game
1.3 apg
1.1 orpg
6.3 drpg
51.1TS%

his usage rate was 37.65% which is the amount of time the ball was in his hands for a play, while his assist rate was 12.52% which is the amount of time he was on the floor when an assist was made for a teammate. that ratio is 3:1

melo CAN'T create for others. the part of his game that was really exposed since he was not double-teamed on the perimeter is that HE CAN'T FIND THE OPEN MAN ON HIS DRIBBLE DRIVES when the defense collapses into the lane. everything was bull-ahead with head down and try to draw a foul or convert a shot. that predictability hurts his team. his best shots were when he shot from behind a screen or two. that did not happen nearly enough.

and what these numbers say is that while he was very inefficient he was also very selfish. and this is the player who is being paid 124 million dollars.

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.

Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.

Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency

Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.html

Look at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.

For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists

And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played

So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.

Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.

I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.

I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.

Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.

What were their 4th quarter numbers?

I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.

Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston

you left out the part that he was playing with a tiny labrum tear in his left, non-shooting shoulder but still felt good enough to shoot 25 times a game.

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.

Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.

Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency

Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.html

Look at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.

For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists

And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played

So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.

Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.

I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.

I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.

Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.

What were their 4th quarter numbers?

I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.

Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston

here is melo by the numbers against indiana:

28.5 ppg on 42.8%FG and averaging 25 shots per game
1.3 apg
1.1 orpg
6.3 drpg
51.1TS%

his usage rate was 37.65% which is the amount of time the ball was in his hands for a play, while his assist rate was 12.52% which is the amount of time he was on the floor when an assist was made for a teammate. that ratio is 3:1

melo CAN'T create for others. the part of his game that was really exposed since he was not double-teamed on the perimeter is that HE CAN'T FIND THE OPEN MAN ON HIS DRIBBLE DRIVES when the defense collapses into the lane. everything was bull-ahead with head down and try to draw a foul or convert a shot. that predictability hurts his team. his best shots were when he shot from behind a screen or two. that did not happen nearly enough.

and what these numbers say is that while he was very inefficient he was also very selfish. and this is the player who is being paid 124 million dollars.

I agree. That is what I've seen as well the past 3yrs. It's amazing how people watch the games and see something completely different or just turn a blind eye to facts

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.

Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.

Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency

Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.html

Look at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.

For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists

And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played

So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.

Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.

I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.

I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.

Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.

What were their 4th quarter numbers?

I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.

Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston

here is melo by the numbers against indiana:

28.5 ppg on 42.8%FG and averaging 25 shots per game
1.3 apg
1.1 orpg
6.3 drpg
51.1TS%

his usage rate was 37.65% which is the amount of time the ball was in his hands for a play, while his assist rate was 12.52% which is the amount of time he was on the floor when an assist was made for a teammate. that ratio is 3:1

melo CAN'T create for others. the part of his game that was really exposed since he was not double-teamed on the perimeter is that HE CAN'T FIND THE OPEN MAN ON HIS DRIBBLE DRIVES when the defense collapses into the lane. everything was bull-ahead with head down and try to draw a foul or convert a shot. that predictability hurts his team. his best shots were when he shot from behind a screen or two. that did not happen nearly enough.

and what these numbers say is that while he was very inefficient he was also very selfish. and this is the player who is being paid 124 million dollars.

I agree. That is what I've seen as well the past 3yrs. It's amazing how people watch the games and see something completely different or just turn a blind eye to facts

Here's the issue with "stats" when they are presented as "facts".....they can be made in to almost anything you want them to be in order to present an argument. Melo is not the best distributor, but you have to ask yourself this question, was it his job to distribute or was he told to go out and shoot the ball or take it to the hole? The NBA is not a pick-up game where 5 guys get together and the best players dictates play. Woodson ran a ISO offense focused on Melo. Why did he do this? Most likely because his roster had no capable answer at PG and was full of injured, inneffective and inefficient players. The plan could have worked if the team played a D like a Thibs coached team. It did not and Woodson is out of here.

The constant complaining about what Melo did or didn't do is kind of silly at this point considering it was done for the past 2 years a heavily Melo Focused ISO offensive system ..... there is now a new coach and new regime who will employ a triangle system offense. Whenever a poster (like Nixluva)tries to extrapolate how Melo will perform in this system, he is almost immediately shouted down by those looking to trash Melo for his ISO style play. How about we see how it works out instead of just trashing others on this board and their ability to read or not read into so called "facts".

Phil is a strong personality whether as a coach or GM. The thinking is that he paid Melo due to the talent he viewed that Melo has and how he projected that talent will work in the system he wants to employ and the roster he wants to build. Some keyboard jockeys here seem to think that they know better than a guy who has been part of 13 championship teams because they have the ability to google and spout off advanced stats. Here's the thing.....basketball is a team game and no matter how good an individual player is, it is tough to win when or even play effectively when the roster is filled with innefective players and a coach who does not have a system to address the holes. It would be nice if we could just see if Phil and Fisher's plans/coaching work over the next few years, instead of constantly whining about Melo.

smackeddog wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Paul George said something and this thread turns into another bash Melo thread? So sad that forum has been hijacked by them.

The thought of this **** going on for another 4 years depresses me.

foosballnick wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I still vehemently remember Paul George making Melo his bitch in the playoffs when we won 54 games.

Not only did he score at will and sank jumpers in Melo's face, he also completely shut Melo down.

Best 2way player I've seen since Scottie Pippen. Very similar games and impact. Just needs to continue to work on his efficiency

Guns... your memory sucks. It really does. That is the furthest thing from what happened. Go back and look:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201305180IND.html

Look at every box score... The pattern is simple. Melo's bad shooting games come when nobody else can hit shots either. So when JR, Felton, Iman and Kidd are bricking everything what happens? What's Woody's adjustment? Iso-Melo, and thats when you see those 10-28 shooting nights like you saw in game 1.

For the series:
Paul George: FGs 39%, 19.5ppg 7rebs, 5assists
Melo: FGs 43%, 28.5ppg, 8rebs, 1.5assists

And Melo put up those #s with this support:
JR: 29% FGs
Felton 40% FGs
Shump: 38% FGs
Jason 'the MVP' Kidd: didnt hit a FG in any of the 6 games he played

So your statements and reality dont add up mate... not at all.

Nobody here hates Paul George. He's a really good player. One of the league's best defenders and a great passer. He's not the scorer he thinks he is yet, and it will be very interesting to see his #s when defenses and zone in on him now with Lance gone.

I mean come on... and this all on Melo? The Melo-haters think this is excuse making and homerism. Paul George played well. Melo played well. If you watched the series came down the Knick guards couldnt hit a basket and Hibbert killed Chandler.

I have no need to protect Melo... his prior poor playoff games and bad shooting nights speak for themselves, but your assesment on that series is not what happened. It just isnt.

Maybe it was the fact that I remember Paul George hitting clutch shots while Melo ISO and chucked in the 4th.

What were their 4th quarter numbers?

I will let this one go because it can be argued that Melo was exhausted.

Game 1 really set the ton for the series though. Melo was awful in that game after the Knicks played great in the series clincher vs Boston

here is melo by the numbers against indiana:

28.5 ppg on 42.8%FG and averaging 25 shots per game
1.3 apg
1.1 orpg
6.3 drpg
51.1TS%

his usage rate was 37.65% which is the amount of time the ball was in his hands for a play, while his assist rate was 12.52% which is the amount of time he was on the floor when an assist was made for a teammate. that ratio is 3:1

melo CAN'T create for others. the part of his game that was really exposed since he was not double-teamed on the perimeter is that HE CAN'T FIND THE OPEN MAN ON HIS DRIBBLE DRIVES when the defense collapses into the lane. everything was bull-ahead with head down and try to draw a foul or convert a shot. that predictability hurts his team. his best shots were when he shot from behind a screen or two. that did not happen nearly enough.

and what these numbers say is that while he was very inefficient he was also very selfish. and this is the player who is being paid 124 million dollars.

I agree. That is what I've seen as well the past 3yrs. It's amazing how people watch the games and see something completely different or just turn a blind eye to facts

Here's the issue with "stats" when they are presented as "facts".....they can be made in to almost anything you want them to be in order to present an argument. Melo is not the best distributor, but you have to ask yourself this question, was it his job to distribute or was he told to go out and shoot the ball or take it to the hole? The NBA is not a pick-up game where 5 guys get together and the best players dictates play. Woodson ran a ISO offense focused on Melo. Why did he do this? Most likely because his roster had no capable answer at PG and was full of injured, inneffective and inefficient players. The plan could have worked if the team played a D like a Thibs coached team. It did not and Woodson is out of here.

The constant complaining about what Melo did or didn't do is kind of silly at this point considering it was done for the past 2 years a heavily Melo Focused ISO offensive system ..... there is now a new coach and new regime who will employ a triangle system offense. Whenever a poster (like Nixluva)tries to extrapolate how Melo will perform in this system, he is almost immediately shouted down by those looking to trash Melo for his ISO style play. How about we see how it works out instead of just trashing others on this board and their ability to read or not read into so called "facts".

Phil is a strong personality whether as a coach or GM. The thinking is that he paid Melo due to the talent he viewed that Melo has and how he projected that talent will work in the system he wants to employ and the roster he wants to build. Some keyboard jockeys here seem to think that they know better than a guy who has been part of 13 championship teams because they have the ability to google and spout off advanced stats. Here's the thing.....basketball is a team game and no matter how good an individual player is, it is tough to win when or even play effectively when the roster is filled with innefective players and a coach who does not have a system to address the holes. It would be nice if we could just see if Phil and Fisher's plans/coaching work over the next few years, instead of constantly whining about Melo.

statistics are in themselves facts. what you seem to take issue with is the formulae that statisticians create using those stats. that's not quite the same as manipulating numbers to suit an argument. furthermore, the point of statistical formulae is to detect patterns and derive predictive power from this detection of patterns.

you may not like what the statistical formulae show about a player, but insofar as all players are subject to the same formulae and statistical models it should be acceptable that carmelo does not show well in many of them. and from there we can evaluate if a player is worth the money.

nixluva wrote:LIVING IN THE PAST. SMDH!

Phil is here to change the culture. He said it and so far the evidence is that is exactly what is happening. He saw some discord in the roster and moved guys he thought were part of the problem. He brought in a PG in Jose Calderon who is known to be a great team player to lead the team on the floor. He's added some youth and players that fit the style of play. Some of us are stuck in the past even after we have a new leader who is making clear changes to the team. These same complainers know for a fact that we now have a new system which is predicated on Ball and Player movement and spacing. We haven't played like this in the time Melo has been here. Even tho MDA tried to do this, he was hampered by the actions of Dolan and the turmoil in management. You can't win with dysfunction at the top. Phil is here now and bringing a more unified management team. We haven't had that in the past. So let's just ignore these facts. We just watched our SL team display the kind of Team 1st BB that Phil said he was bringing. That's still not enough evidence for the complainers.

lets see how the starters look in preseason. can old dogs be taught new tricks? do they have the skills and physical tools, including stamina?

you are a good poster and have every right to be optimistic.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/graphic-video-paul-george-breaks-leg-usa-scrimmage-article-1.1889289