Dagger wrote:Im not going to say anymore in here because this thread has been completely hijacked by a discussion that is completely off-topic.

This thread topic was already dead before we took this tangent. I don't see the harm in this new discussion, considering how far its come. Not like we got much else to talk about this late in the free agency period.

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Nard, I got many israeli friends and family. I got skin in the game.

If your Palestinian I could get your point. If your just trying to logically align some logic either via foreign policy or garner some kind of sympathy that our tax dollars are going there to masquerade an anti israeli rhetoric then just be honest.

For some of us its just emotional. The Israeli's I know want Gaza and the west bank off the books but you want to ignore the rockets? The agenda to exterminate?

Israel can end this in a few days if not for civilian concern and just wipe Hamas out. They don't do that. Hamas is just trying to kill with no regard to whom.

Bottom line is Israel won't wait for a horrific event to garner world wide sympathy like a 9/11 or pearl harber to justify an response. Its how they roll. They got the bomb and have leverage because if they get hit my a nuke they will respond in a way that will kill 10x more and poison the oil for 50 years. Its their survival.

I'll be honest, I don't like Israel (the government). They remind me of a school yard bully that picks fights with others, then pulls in their big brother to settle their dirty work. What irritates me even more is the ****ing arrogance that men like Netanyahu has in addressing our leadership and the foothold they are gaining in dictating our foreign policies ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/after-backing-romney-netanyahu-faces-own-reelection-bid/2012/11/08/3c540bcc-29d5-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_story.html ).There just isn't very many redeemable qualities about the way they conduct business from my perspective. I'd be appalled all the same if we were not involved BUT the fact that we are so intimately involved with what they do, means that we'll have to deal with the blow-back that accompanies any misdeed. I've already lost skin in the game to two conflicts in that region because of stupid **** our country has done and don't see the point in continuing the cycle. I feel the same way about the Ukraine, Syria, Iraq and the like.

At the same time, I can't judge Israelis, the people, because politically it is quite dynamic. Like I said before, Netanyahu got elected with less than 30% of the vote and the opposition has been very critical of him. Their situation is akin to the circumstances I and those of my political leanings were under with George Bush who I hate/hated with a ****ing passion. At the end of the day, Bush, Netanyah and their cronies are all the same regardless of nationality.

Do you know why American Government has been largely supportive of Israel? Because it is the only democracy in the region...

If our country is so supportive of democracy, why have we supported dictators such as Saddam Hussein of Iraq, the royal families in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Hoshni Muburak of Egypt...I can keep going if you'd like. The reality is that we support whoever is most convenient to exploiting the resources of 3rd world and developing countries for the benefit of private corporations/social elites. Dictators are the favored mechanism to achieving that end. It's why most of the world's dictators have, at some point or another, been supported by our government. How else do you really expect a man to maintain order if everyone in his country has a stake in killing him?

Beyond that, this isn't the 3rd grade; you can be friends with people that are fundamentally different from you. My best friend is a devout Lutheran and staunch-Republican and I couldn't be further away philosophically from either ideology.

Well the biggest resource of the middle east is oil, and Israel is certainly not an oil powerhouse. Yes, it's good to be friends with people different than you, except it doesn't work out so well when that "friend" wants to kill you. Do you know the prime objective of HAMAS? It is to wipe out every country on the earth and replace it with a radical islamic state "on the rubble of every other civilization". But don't take my word for it. Here's a video from a former son of hamas. Hamas' objective is stated at around the 1:05 mark.

Hamas is not interested in peace.

Netanyahu isn't interested in peace either. Attacking population centers like schools, public markets and hospitals should've made that much clear to you. He's no different than Hamas...he's just smart enough to not voice his intentions and worships the "right" God.

And just out of curiosity, you think ALL Palestinians are responsible for Hamas? Were ALL Americans responsible for George Bush or Barack Obama? And what is to happen to these Palestinian civilians who are governed by Hamas? Should they all be killed in your estimation for crimes they didn't commit?

Where the hell did you get that? Wow. When someone starts putting words in my mouth I'm done.

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Nard, I got many israeli friends and family. I got skin in the game.

If your Palestinian I could get your point. If your just trying to logically align some logic either via foreign policy or garner some kind of sympathy that our tax dollars are going there to masquerade an anti israeli rhetoric then just be honest.

For some of us its just emotional. The Israeli's I know want Gaza and the west bank off the books but you want to ignore the rockets? The agenda to exterminate?

Israel can end this in a few days if not for civilian concern and just wipe Hamas out. They don't do that. Hamas is just trying to kill with no regard to whom.

Bottom line is Israel won't wait for a horrific event to garner world wide sympathy like a 9/11 or pearl harber to justify an response. Its how they roll. They got the bomb and have leverage because if they get hit my a nuke they will respond in a way that will kill 10x more and poison the oil for 50 years. Its their survival.

I'll be honest, I don't like Israel (the government). They remind me of a school yard bully that picks fights with others, then pulls in their big brother to settle their dirty work. What irritates me even more is the ****ing arrogance that men like Netanyahu has in addressing our leadership and the foothold they are gaining in dictating our foreign policies ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/after-backing-romney-netanyahu-faces-own-reelection-bid/2012/11/08/3c540bcc-29d5-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_story.html ).There just isn't very many redeemable qualities about the way they conduct business from my perspective. I'd be appalled all the same if we were not involved BUT the fact that we are so intimately involved with what they do, means that we'll have to deal with the blow-back that accompanies any misdeed. I've already lost skin in the game to two conflicts in that region because of stupid **** our country has done and don't see the point in continuing the cycle. I feel the same way about the Ukraine, Syria, Iraq and the like.

At the same time, I can't judge Israelis, the people, because politically it is quite dynamic. Like I said before, Netanyahu got elected with less than 30% of the vote and the opposition has been very critical of him. Their situation is akin to the circumstances I and those of my political leanings were under with George Bush who I hate/hated with a ****ing passion. At the end of the day, Bush, Netanyah and their cronies are all the same regardless of nationality.

Do you know why American Government has been largely supportive of Israel? Because it is the only democracy in the region...

If our country is so supportive of democracy, why have we supported dictators such as Saddam Hussein of Iraq, the royal families in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Hoshni Muburak of Egypt...I can keep going if you'd like. The reality is that we support whoever is most convenient to exploiting the resources of 3rd world and developing countries for the benefit of private corporations/social elites. Dictators are the favored mechanism to achieving that end. It's why most of the world's dictators have, at some point or another, been supported by our government. How else do you really expect a man to maintain order if everyone in his country has a stake in killing him?

Beyond that, this isn't the 3rd grade; you can be friends with people that are fundamentally different from you. My best friend is a devout Lutheran and staunch-Republican and I couldn't be further away philosophically from either ideology.

Well the biggest resource of the middle east is oil, and Israel is certainly not an oil powerhouse. Yes, it's good to be friends with people different than you, except it doesn't work out so well when that "friend" wants to kill you. Do you know the prime objective of HAMAS? It is to wipe out every country on the earth and replace it with a radical islamic state "on the rubble of every other civilization". But don't take my word for it. Here's a video from a former son of hamas. Hamas' objective is stated at around the 1:05 mark.

Hamas is not interested in peace.

Netanyahu isn't interested in peace either. Attacking population centers like schools, public markets and hospitals should've made that much clear to you. He's no different than Hamas...he's just smart enough to not voice his intentions and worships the "right" God.

And just out of curiosity, you think ALL Palestinians are responsible for Hamas? Were ALL Americans responsible for George Bush or Barack Obama? And what is to happen to these Palestinian civilians who are governed by Hamas? Should they all be killed in your estimation for crimes they didn't commit?

Where the hell did you get that? Wow. When someone starts putting words in my mouth I'm done.

Because you support Israel in this conflict....80% of casualties in the conflict has been civilians that Israel's have killed...so the natural conclusion would be that you think this is justifiable. Anything to the contrary would be like me saying I support the death penalty.....but hate the part where the criminal is killed.

The South had more casualties than the North in the civil war. The North was technologically superior and had more troops. Does that mean the South was the victim and morally in the right? All deaths are tragic.

Hamas positions bases, weapons facilities, and combat supplies strategically so that innocent palestinian lives are dragged into the fray. Do YOU think the deaths of the Israelis are justifiable?

Honestly, I don't care at all if Israel takes back Gaza, what I do care about is that people get the facts right. You do not seem to have a grip on the facts and use death counts to judge who is in the right in a conflict. It sounds as though you think it's alright for Hamas to attack Israel indefinitely because they have less advanced warfare. So because some of Hamas rockets misfire, it is okay for them to keep firing because "hey, maybe the next ones will miss"? Israel should sit back and take the violence? Do you honestly think Israel would refuse a ceasefire? They offered a few already...

If you believe Israel would not accept a truce to the violence, nothing I'm going to say will change your mind because you likely have a very toxic view of both Israel and the Israeli people as a whole. Listen to what I'm saying: I know there are some people in Israel that do not want to compromise and want Gaza only for Israelis, I do not support this view and I don't naively believe all Israelis would be fine sharing or surrendering Gaza. But I'm sure nearly 100% of Israelis would be fine with a non-violent resolution to the conflict, and the history of the conflict has made it clear that this is not the case with Hamas.

big mistake.

hamas, whose charter is completely derived from religious "principles," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant uses the 1300-year old koran as its inspiration for its pseudo-political stance, with a smattering of the classic canard the protocols of the elders of zion for extra flavor-- this same publication was used by the nazis. the overarching goal for hamas is that it wants to establish a caliphate throughout the region-- not a modern democratic society. bonus points if they can exterminate the jews in doing so.

so the conflict from hamas's viewpoint is entirely based on religion and a fictional book written in russia in 1903, and uses politics as a pretext. many would argue that an argument based on religion is the antithesis of rational. how else do you justify using schools, hospitals, and homes as launching pads for rockets? ironically, how else do you justify using so much of your funding for building tunnels... instead of the infrastructure that actually benefits the people who voted for you to govern?

modernity has no room for such nonsense. where there is insanity there will be bloodshed. all hamas has to do is recognize israel's right to exist. since it cannot it must be choked off, deprived of blood flow like a tumor. even the arab states in the region are recognizing this by their collective silence on the matter. i have read that even the gazans themselves have become sick of these fanatics.

just my two cents.

This one takes the cake!
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/15/hamas-uses-horror-movie-still-of-headless-girl-in-miniskirt-to-depict-gaza-casualties-on-social-media-warning-graphic-video/

Condemnation is easy when rockets are not being slung your way.

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:USA was not defending itself against a neighbor. Iraq is not trying to tunnel into NYC or sling rockets our way.

Condemnation is easy when rockets are not being slung your way.

So what exactly is a 5 year old Palestinian child suppose to do in this situation to avoid death? Or is your genuine stance "tough s***t, some adult of a similar ethnicity fired a rocket so it's a shame but it's okay if that kid gets blown up". No person genuinely deep down believes that but we end up picking sides and somehow defending stuff that's just basically and fundamentally wrong. Politics is politics, but basic human nature is about protecting and raising children not murdering them and not putting them in harms way- something both sides decide to forget.

well the child is under the custodianship of the mother and father, uncle and aunt, ie the adult citizens of age who are responsible for those children until they reach eighteen. what you are asking is what are the parents and guardians of these innocent children supposed to do under these conditions. what do you suggest?

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:USA was not defending itself against a neighbor. Iraq is not trying to tunnel into NYC or sling rockets our way.

Condemnation is easy when rockets are not being slung your way.

So what exactly is a 5 year old Palestinian child suppose to do in this situation to avoid death? Or is your genuine stance "tough s***t, some adult of a similar ethnicity fired a rocket so it's a shame but it's okay if that kid gets blown up". No person genuinely deep down believes that but we end up picking sides and somehow defending stuff that's just basically and fundamentally wrong. Politics is politics, but basic human nature is about protecting and raising children not murdering them and not putting them in harms way- something both sides decide to forget.

If you rejoice that the child killed is in the glory of ALLAH and in a better place then who are you to say otherwise? Thats not your belief, but that is Hamas. Christian-Judeo values don't believe that. You and I look at innocent children dying and its painful. Israel has to make a choice, allow enough missiles to keep flying until one of them does kill? How long can that go on?

Seems the thought process of dying for the glory of Allah is accepted by those promoting the violence. Is this the will of the people? Do they want Hamas gone?

FOr years we have read about how Hamas teaches their children young. One example:

I'd recommend you thumb through your Torah/Bible again because you are mistaken on that point...

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:8-9)

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

God orders Moses to kill every Midianite woman who was no longer a virgin. (many of these women would obviously have been pregnant) (Numbers 31:15-18)

The only difference between Hamas and the hard-right in Israel is that the latter has better weapons. At the end of the day, they still pull from bull**** religious texts that has them believe they are God's favorites, emboldening them to do heinous things while claiming moral superiority.

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:USA was not defending itself against a neighbor. Iraq is not trying to tunnel into NYC or sling rockets our way.

Condemnation is easy when rockets are not being slung your way.

So what exactly is a 5 year old Palestinian child suppose to do in this situation to avoid death? Or is your genuine stance "tough s***t, some adult of a similar ethnicity fired a rocket so it's a shame but it's okay if that kid gets blown up". No person genuinely deep down believes that but we end up picking sides and somehow defending stuff that's just basically and fundamentally wrong. Politics is politics, but basic human nature is about protecting and raising children not murdering them and not putting them in harms way- something both sides decide to forget.

If you rejoice that the child killed is in the glory of ALLAH and in a better place then who are you to say otherwise? Thats not your belief, but that is Hamas. Christian-Judeo values don't believe that. You and I look at innocent children dying and its painful. Israel has to make a choice, allow enough missiles to keep flying until one of them does kill? How long can that go on?

Seems the thought process of dying for the glory of Allah is accepted by those promoting the violence. Is this the will of the people? Do they want Hamas gone?

FOr years we have read about how Hamas teaches their children young. One example:

I'd recommend you thumb through your Torah/Bible again because you are mistaken on that point...

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:8-9)

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

God orders Moses to kill every Midianite woman who was no longer a virgin. (many of these women would obviously have been pregnant) (Numbers 31:15-18)

The only difference between Hamas and the hard-right in Israel is that the latter has better weapons. At the end of the day, they still pull from bull**** religious texts that has them believe they are God's favorites that in turn emboldens them to do heinous things yet claim moral superiority.

hamas derives inspiration from the koran, a 1300 year old religious book, and uses politics as a pretext to establish a caliphate-like dominance in the region, tolerating other religions only so long as islam is the predominant religion.

you are citing examples from another religious book, a religious book that was written between 3200 and 2300 years ago, and which has very little historical validity, ie it is a bunch of stories that have a hard time being proven as true. that said, they are far older than the koran.

both books seem to possess a great deal of primitive thinking relative to modern ideas of tolerance and separation of church and state.

the error in your citing of these horrific passages is that the state of israel and its constitution is not based on the bible, and certainly not these passages. it is a modern, democratic state that was created in 1948 and whose sovereignty is denied by none but a very few.

your post is basically inaccurate rhetoric.

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:USA was not defending itself against a neighbor. Iraq is not trying to tunnel into NYC or sling rockets our way.

Condemnation is easy when rockets are not being slung your way.

So what exactly is a 5 year old Palestinian child suppose to do in this situation to avoid death? Or is your genuine stance "tough s***t, some adult of a similar ethnicity fired a rocket so it's a shame but it's okay if that kid gets blown up". No person genuinely deep down believes that but we end up picking sides and somehow defending stuff that's just basically and fundamentally wrong. Politics is politics, but basic human nature is about protecting and raising children not murdering them and not putting them in harms way- something both sides decide to forget.

If you rejoice that the child killed is in the glory of ALLAH and in a better place then who are you to say otherwise? Thats not your belief, but that is Hamas. Christian-Judeo values don't believe that. You and I look at innocent children dying and its painful. Israel has to make a choice, allow enough missiles to keep flying until one of them does kill? How long can that go on?

Seems the thought process of dying for the glory of Allah is accepted by those promoting the violence. Is this the will of the people? Do they want Hamas gone?

FOr years we have read about how Hamas teaches their children young. One example:

I'd recommend you thumb through your Torah/Bible again because you are mistaken on that point...

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:8-9)

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

God orders Moses to kill every Midianite woman who was no longer a virgin. (many of these women would obviously have been pregnant) (Numbers 31:15-18)

The only difference between Hamas and the hard-right in Israel is that the latter has better weapons. At the end of the day, they still pull from bull**** religious texts that has them believe they are God's favorites that in turn emboldens them to do heinous things yet claim moral superiority.

hamas derives inspiration from the koran, a 1300 year old religious book, and uses politics as a pretext to establish a caliphate-like dominance in the region, tolerating other religions only so long as islam is the predominant religion.

you are citing examples from another religious book, a religious book that was written between 3200 and 2300 years ago, and which has very little historical validity, ie it is a bunch of stories that have a hard time being proven as true. that said, they are far older than the koran.

both books seem to possess a great deal of primitive thinking relative to modern ideas of tolerance and separation of church and state.

the error in your citing of these horrific passages is that the state of israel and its constitution is not based on the bible, and certainly not these passages. it is a modern, democratic state that was created in 1948 and whose sovereignty is denied by none but a very few.

your post is basically inaccurate rhetoric.

The Bible is filled with a bunch of bull**** stories as well but it's still being used to deny climate change (God promised Noah to never flood the world again so rising sea levels couldn't possibly be happening), promote anti-gay rhetoric, denounce abortion, shape foreign policy and a host of other ridiculous policies/positions. Hell, you just heard another poster distinguish one side as being morally superior to the other on the basis of this text. You'd be out of your mind if you don't think that these texts are not part of the psyche/hubris for both sides. Don't believe me? Just listen to this dope...

http://youtu.be/UbsVQiY0Qkw

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:USA was not defending itself against a neighbor. Iraq is not trying to tunnel into NYC or sling rockets our way.

Condemnation is easy when rockets are not being slung your way.

So what exactly is a 5 year old Palestinian child suppose to do in this situation to avoid death? Or is your genuine stance "tough s***t, some adult of a similar ethnicity fired a rocket so it's a shame but it's okay if that kid gets blown up". No person genuinely deep down believes that but we end up picking sides and somehow defending stuff that's just basically and fundamentally wrong. Politics is politics, but basic human nature is about protecting and raising children not murdering them and not putting them in harms way- something both sides decide to forget.

If you rejoice that the child killed is in the glory of ALLAH and in a better place then who are you to say otherwise? Thats not your belief, but that is Hamas. Christian-Judeo values don't believe that. You and I look at innocent children dying and its painful. Israel has to make a choice, allow enough missiles to keep flying until one of them does kill? How long can that go on?

Seems the thought process of dying for the glory of Allah is accepted by those promoting the violence. Is this the will of the people? Do they want Hamas gone?

FOr years we have read about how Hamas teaches their children young. One example:

I'd recommend you thumb through your Torah/Bible again because you are mistaken on that point...

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:8-9)

Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)

At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women. (2 Kings 15:16)

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

God orders Moses to kill every Midianite woman who was no longer a virgin. (many of these women would obviously have been pregnant) (Numbers 31:15-18)

The only difference between Hamas and the hard-right in Israel is that the latter has better weapons. At the end of the day, they still pull from bull**** religious texts that has them believe they are God's favorites that in turn emboldens them to do heinous things yet claim moral superiority.

hamas derives inspiration from the koran, a 1300 year old religious book, and uses politics as a pretext to establish a caliphate-like dominance in the region, tolerating other religions only so long as islam is the predominant religion.

you are citing examples from another religious book, a religious book that was written between 3200 and 2300 years ago, and which has very little historical validity, ie it is a bunch of stories that have a hard time being proven as true. that said, they are far older than the koran.

both books seem to possess a great deal of primitive thinking relative to modern ideas of tolerance and separation of church and state.

the error in your citing of these horrific passages is that the state of israel and its constitution is not based on the bible, and certainly not these passages. it is a modern, democratic state that was created in 1948 and whose sovereignty is denied by none but a very few.

your post is basically inaccurate rhetoric.

The Bible is filled with a bunch of bull**** stories as well but it's still being used to deny climate change (God promised Noah to never flood the world again so rising sea levels couldn't possibly be happening), promote anti-gay rhetoric, denounce abortion, shape foreign policy and a host of other ridiculous policies/positions. Hell, you just heard another poster distinguish one side as being morally superior to the other on the basis of this text. You'd be out of your mind if you don't think that these texts are not part of the psyche/hubris for both sides. Don't believe me? Just listen to this dope...

http://youtu.be/UbsVQiY0Qkw

he is an example of a politician whose politics is more than likely based on his religious views. these sorts are sickening to me. frankly, i was expecting you to provide videos from israeli religious kooks or some members of the knesset to make your point.

obviously citing any old religious kook from israel would not bolster your argument-- but a member of the knesset who is a fanatic might....

Done and done. The first link involves part of the comment in question by Israeli Naftali Bennett; the second involves the entire interview, which borders on the ridiculous at times...

http://youtu.be/VYH4aYb7IAU

http://youtu.be/ls0KV2Ixm6o

As a side, if you think Lindsey Graham is an isolated incident of the Republican Party/conservative platform...I've got plenty more videos and articles to prove the contrary. The only real reason they are willing to spend indiscriminately on Israel (while criticizing any and every other form of spending) is because they believe their sky-God can only return if Jews have absolute and total control of those lands before WWIII erupts.