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Massive trade
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Vmart
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5/26/2004  8:59 PM
BigSmooth, It was a well thought out logical sentence. Wagner is suppose to be AIish player, Smith a T-Macish player why not go out and bring the real thing. Instead of fooling around with could be players that might pan out 3-5 year from now. As for the deal TT and H20 and future 2 first rounders + Williams for T-Mac and a Bad Hill contract a player that might not play for them again. With the possibility of T-Mac walking out yeah I think if anything it is giving the Magic to much. But those are the risks I would take.
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EnySpree
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5/26/2004  9:33 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

NY sends Tim Thomas and Frank Williams to Clev

for

Dujuan Wagner 6th pick in draft = Josh Smith Kevin Ollie and Tony Battie

Nah man Cleveland would get the player they need in TT. They have Boozer, Ill, McInnis and Lebron.....TT would solidify that team.

Wagner would be cool off the bench in a Vinnie Johnson role. With possibly the 10th pick the could draft a starter right there.

I think Cleveland shoudl draft a small fwd and play Wagner in that Vinnie Johnson role and they would be a really good team next year without any trades.

Lets try to help the Knicks not Cleveland.
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BRIGGS
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5/26/2004  10:33 PM
well, thats supposed to be the idea. a trade should be fair and help both teams. Yeah I think TT would help solidify their team and FW is better and younger than Ollie. We get help immediately to putting a sixth man in place, getting a shot blocking C who should be able to score with marbury and a vet PG that will give a quality 8-10 minutes--but the prize and the reason I do it is because I believe Josh Smith is going to be a superstar and in this league you need superstars and TT is not one. It may take 2-3 years for him to fully develop, but there is no reason why he can garner a 15 minute back up 3 role right away. There is also no reason why the Knicks would take a step back, especially since we still have the full MLE KT and all of our expiring contracts to improve the team. But getting to the end is a process-were not going to the finals any time soon we are far far away unless soemthing strange happened--i look at a three year timeframe which is about right as long as we increase talent over the next two years and get the talent to play hard together. we need athletes to compete in the east the way things are going. Its all in what you see and believe--if you dont see a young player play or a college player play you cant invision how that player would be a benefit to your club. I see this kid as the next dominique who needs 2 years to develop and that not even counting the value of wagner as a sixth man type. I think its potentially a very good trade both ways

and its atleast credible compared to something like houston[who knows if he even will play again and the guy is going to be 34] for T mac?

RIP Crushalot😞
BigSm00th
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5/26/2004  11:56 PM
Risks like this deal need to be taken. IF Josh Smith develops the Knicks get lucky and launch themselves to the next level. That's what they have to do since they never rebuild.
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raven
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5/27/2004  3:46 AM
your trade is a good trade for both sides, briggs. i'm 100% with you on this, as this one is doable, unlike all the kobe-tmac-brand crap that have NO chance to happen. (unless kobe brakes his knee, tmac his back and brand fallls in depression)

most trades offers on this board are lopsided in our favor. waiting for the superstar ? no way, superstar won't come for cheap unless you draft them and get them while their value is low. Dajuan has no future on the cav, they'd better right now and unlike nalod, i do think that playoff experience right from the start is exactly wat lebron needs.
diderotn
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5/27/2004  7:50 AM
Why are you all being so sympathetic for the Cavs? We have our own problems to resolve in N.Y. The two players out of the Cavs that I want are Boozer or Illguskas, and I know for fact that they won't trade them. Now if they want to trade both of their draft picks to us, I will be all for trading Williams and another player to them. As far as I am concern, their chances at making the playoffs next year are greater than ours. They have a pretty good starting lineup and most of all a great coach. They have players, we don't. All we have right now is a great PG.
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raven
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5/27/2004  7:59 AM
Posted by diderotn:

All we have right now is a great PG.

which is, at least, one thing more than what we had last year.

you have to overpay to get what you need. You don't care about how the trade will help them, but how it'd help us. Dajuan off the bench would be a pretty nice step in the good direction, a pick could allow us to get a center. We'd still have our expiring contracts to facilitate a trade.
jazz74
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5/27/2004  8:35 AM
i think they would trade ilgauskus. i thought that was one of the reasons they went out to get battie. i would love to have wagner the pick and big z than ollie and battie. we need size and the big z provides that. he was the main reason why the cavaliers killed us last season, not lebron or boozer. and for some reason he has been on the trading block all season going into this summer. we need to jump at the opportunity. he has been healthy the past two years ( knock on wood) and an all-star center last year. he is a legit offensive center who can block shots and play with his back to the basket. the only downside is his rebounding but either naz or thomas ( whichever one stays on the team) will make up for that.
Nalod
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5/27/2004  11:27 AM
Want superstars, grow your own.

Trade for picks and use superior evalutation to uncover a mike redd and others in lower picks. NY has got to learn and apprciate young players and support teams to build it right.

We love our home grown players. Jeter, Namath, Reed, Clyde, Bradley, Strawberry, LT, Starks, Mason, Bernie, Posada, Seaver, Ewing, Damaggio, Mantle, ETc etc.

Free agent love is not the same as growing your own. Or bringing in guys whom come as nothing and watch them emerge is also special. They are ours, part of the family, they become the favorites sons of NYC and if taken to glory is a great thing. A Starphuched group of mercenaries can come an perhaps win, but its a shallow victory.

The 1994 had many home grown players, and Mess added the final touch. Starphuching did them no good. THe 4 islander cups in the early 1980's was great. That team grew for 3-4 years getting closer and closer, gaining experience and then bonded to form on of the last great dynasties. The Yankees are getting too Starphuched these days for their own good.

THe lake show is a little different. They got 3 rings and Malone is the real difference, Payton is just nice. But its a core team of Fischer-Kobe-Shaq that is STILL together.

Be nice when we can be critical about HOW we win our rings.
simrud
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5/27/2004  4:14 PM
I think this the best idea that has been posted here in a while. This just might be too good of a trade for us actually. I'm not sure the Cavs want a SF, as Lebron can play the 3 very well, and they have Williams from the Boston trade. Wagner is also a great 6th man. A lottery pick has great value too. And all we give up is a washed up 3 in TT and potential solid PG in FW? However if Cleveland takes it we should jump on it.

First of all, Battie is a legit double double shotblocking center. Thats a 12pts 12rbs 2blks a game player in our system right there. No more defensively challenged 6 10 Mohammed at center. Rather a defensvie force in the middle that erases so many mistakes on the D. This part of the trade alone makes it a steal.

Second of all, Wagner replaces FW and then some. He creates a great 3 guard rotation with Marbury and Houston, and brings much needed energy and scoring punch of the bench. As a reminder, the guy was a lottery pick, supposed to be the next AI when he came out.

A lottery pick is invaluable. Be it Josh Smith or whoever, that is a great asset. You can draft a SF to replace TT, or you can trade the draft pick in a package with KT and expiring deals to lets say the Clippers for Brand or something like that. Thus brining in your superstar. With the Clippers basically getting a shot at Howard at 3, there is a great chance they will trade Brand.

Potentially you end up with this:

C Battie/Mohammed
PF Brand/Sweetney
SF Penny/Demarr/Anderson
SG Houston/Wagner/Anderson
PG Marbury/Wagner/Penny

IL Norris, 2nd rounder
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Massive trade

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