with baker not coming back that makes it 14 without demarr + we still have all those ending contracts to potentially maneuver for 1 player like a webber:>)

I wouldn't trade a player like TT to Cleveland. That can come back and hunt us. TT is a very good player, maybe next year will be his brakeout season. Beside, with Lebron in Cleveland, they don't need TT at the SF position. How can you all be so quick to trade TT? The guy came in and played in a system that he wasn't even familiar with, and most of all, he did very well. Give the guy at least one year to show that he is not worthy, than trade him.

i view wagner as a sixth man[something the knicks havent had in a LONG time] and a guy who can step in and start if needed


Tim Thomas is OK sometimes hes great sometimes hes a fugazy. Its not about Tim Thomas. I believe Josh Smith will far surpass TT and to win a championship, the Knicks need to take some chances and increase the talent pool. I think Tim Thomas would be a great fit for Cleveland as would FW. I think the trade would help both clubs both short and long term in different ways.

TT, Kurt, Penny are all very expendable.

TT is not that special. A break out is possible, but can he breakout and stay at that level when he has yet to?

Dejuan is hopefully able to gain some health and have a good career.

TT and Kurt put clevland in a win now mode, with Lebron just a sophmore? If I am the cavs, I keep building and make it long, deep and sustainable. Like a good long screw!

But Im down with those parts for a good pick, an offensive spark from the bench, and pieces. But we got lots of pieces also we need to rid.

Will the 10th pick net Josh Smith? This trade could be a disaster if Smith is not picked but just an average player like Araujo etc is picked.

Posted by TMS:

what other players are you unloading to make room on the roster? i think it's a decent trade...Wagner has tons of upside, & i've always liked blue collar players like Ollie & Battie...not sure how good Josh Smith is, but i'll take your word for it on him...btw, CLE has the #10 pick.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/26/2004 12:44:28]

Isn't the lottery tonight?

Unless the Bulls have a chance to draft Okafor or Deng I don't think they will keep their pick.

most deals that involve the draft are only consumated when that pick and the player that the team wants to go along with it are there. Yes. I realized that it is 10 instead of 6 but he could easily fall there. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. Many teams may do a little dancing around the youngins this year because they want more established players--priming a guy like smith to drop to 10 evidence kobe stoudemire oneal etc.......

Posted by daddynel:

Posted by Vmart:

Posted by BRIGGS:

NY sends Tim Thomas and Frank Williams to Clev

for

Dujuan Wagner 6th pick in draft = Josh Smith Kevin Ollie and Tony Battie

Are these players going to make the Knicks any better. No. The Knicks need a superstar. T-Mac, Kobe type of player anything else is failure. The missing piece is a superstar. Wakeup people. Your adding players that are pretty much the same as the other it won't make the Knicks any worse or any better. The first step to winning a championship is getting a superstar. Star power influences the league the refs and everything else in basketball.

Get the superstar first and everthing else will fall into place. It may come at a steep price but the pieces will be much easier to place with the superstar in place. I love Marbury but he is a very good player not a superstar. Kobe, T-mac, Duncan, Shaq, KG, AI, are superstars.

you can't just sit and wait for a superstar to fall in your lap. you gotta make whatever moves you can until this guy falls from dreamland. don't get me wrong vmart, we all have a dreamland. mine also includes kobe, duncan...ect. but you can't sleep if a good trade just happens to come your way.battie is a good role player and shot blocker, the only shot blocker we have is on social security. now, dujuan wagner is a scorer. no other way to describe his game. athletic scorer. as for josh smith, he's a t-macish player, but w/out the range. EXtremely athletic, 6'8, and nothing but upside. i also doubt that smith will fall to the 10th pick, but if he does, i'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

I understand that very well, but you have to consider the win now attitude of the team. To think they will wait on Wagner, Smith isn't the NYK way. They would much rather take a proven player in T-Mac and Kobe then wait on a T Macish player. Who in their right mind would give up on Wagner and a potential T-Macish player in Smith they would rather take Smith and team him up with LeBron, and try and create the second coming of Jordan/Pippen or Magic/Worthy.

I suggest the Knicks get serious and make a run at T-Mac and put everything on the table excluding Marbury. If that means parting with two future number ones along with H20 and TT for a T-mac and Grant Hill I would do it with out hesitation. This is why I do this trade and might include FW in the deal. With DerrMar on the Knicks I think he can be a excellent sf in the league with Penny around he can help the SF position. Give Sweetney the starting PF spot and move KT and Nazr for a Big man and a back up PF preferably to Chicago for Chandler and Jerome Williams. Use the exception on Camby or Okur. Next year the starting lineup will be:

DerrMar/Penny sf
Sweetney/Williams pf
Camby/Chandler c
T-Mac sg
Marbury g

Rest Bench: Baker, Anderson, Norris, G. Hill

This team is improved atheltically and can compete with most elite teams. Its just a matter of getting the superstar T-Mac.