nixluva wrote:If you look at the following highlight video notice the offense we're running and how sloppy it is. How often Bargnani gets the ball out of prime position. So often guys are just standing around. Also he's a much more active player when he's been involved in the game. He'll defend better. It's just the way he is. Seems to me that many of his coaches haven't paid attention to this. Now in this system at least the ball is designed to be passed to the big men so they can get a feel and be involved. He can survey the court and see what the defense does and make better decisions, closer to the basket. What I see in this video is a player with talent and size that needs to be coached up. He has the ability to do so much more than he has. Let's see what Phil and his boys can do.

What I like on this video is seeing how far out and how reluctant Dwight Howard is to come out to the 3 pt line to guard Bargs. The result is that Bargs is open for the 3, and also Howard is out of position for the rebound. It screws up Houston's D and rebounding positions.

H1AND1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:When he was actually getting minutes Bargs was the 2nd best player on the team!!! People have seriously developed amnesia about last year. We didn't lose because of Bargnani. We lost cuz of Woody, JR, Felton sucking and Tyson breaking his leg etc. There were a myriad of reasons, but early in the year before Bargs lost his confidence and then got injured, he was avg'ing 16/6/1.3 blks on 47.4%, 81% FT and 37% from 3pt range. People just forget that he actually was doing that with Felton, Shump and JR stinking up the joint. IMO he most definitely can be a productive player. Coaching will make a huge difference and the presence of Jose will also help cuz they have chemistry.

where do you come up with these things?

What the F were you watching at the start of the year when Bargs was in FACT the 2nd best player on the team. Don't piss on my posts if you're not gonna back up what you say with SOMETHING. I hate that ISH.

Bargs:  32.7 mpg 47.4% FG  37.0% 3pt 81.1% FT 5.8 reb 1.3 blks 16.4 pts
Felton: 35.1 mpg 36.6% FG  23.7% 3pt 85.7% FT 2.8 reb 5.8 ast  9.9  pts
JR:     31.5 mpg 32.8$ FG  28.6% 3pt 59.1% FT 4.6 reb 1.9 ast  11.7 pts

The poor coaching and poor play of our guards sucked the life out of Bargs. All those losses broke team spirit. Before Bargs lost all his confidence and enthusiasm, he was doing OK. Woody didn't make sure to keep him a part of the action. Bargs is the kind of player that has to be involved. He'll drift if he's not getting touches. That's the beauty of the Triangle, the ball gets to touch everyones hands and they are all active and engaged on every play.

dude you need to chill out with that crap and relax. You want to hang your hat on a 13 game stretch like that's something to hold on to even though he still had a negative +/-. What about December and January when he was "getting minutes"? I guess those don't count. He started the season sucking then had a good 13 games so the other 27 games just do not count.

He the definition of a negative player but I know to you he is awesome.

Well if he can't base his perfomance during a 13 game stretch, how do you base it on a 27 game stretch, with so many other issues that the team had.

Are you saying Barg can never be good no matter who you put around him, or no matter what system he plays in?

Are you taking woodson system into consideration, the PG play, the passes he got, the timing of his shots?

Are you determining his success strickly of off stats, is that truly the way to judge a player.

Bargs has never put together a really great season in his entire career? Even when he was putting up 17-20 points a game he was doing so inefficiently and playing atrocious defense. Then, the past 3 or 4 seasons he's been atrocious.

Why should we think he is all of sudden going to play up to expectations now?

Like Nix said, system basket ball..Players can change..

Jordan, ball hog, 50 shots a game 2 ast for 6 to 7 yrs, but under phil, 50% shooting, 5 ast, 6 rbs..

yellowboy90 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:When he was actually getting minutes Bargs was the 2nd best player on the team!!! People have seriously developed amnesia about last year. We didn't lose because of Bargnani. We lost cuz of Woody, JR, Felton sucking and Tyson breaking his leg etc. There were a myriad of reasons, but early in the year before Bargs lost his confidence and then got injured, he was avg'ing 16/6/1.3 blks on 47.4%, 81% FT and 37% from 3pt range. People just forget that he actually was doing that with Felton, Shump and JR stinking up the joint. IMO he most definitely can be a productive player. Coaching will make a huge difference and the presence of Jose will also help cuz they have chemistry.

where do you come up with these things?

What the F were you watching at the start of the year when Bargs was in FACT the 2nd best player on the team. Don't piss on my posts if you're not gonna back up what you say with SOMETHING. I hate that ISH.

Bargs:  32.7 mpg 47.4% FG  37.0% 3pt 81.1% FT 5.8 reb 1.3 blks 16.4 pts
Felton: 35.1 mpg 36.6% FG  23.7% 3pt 85.7% FT 2.8 reb 5.8 ast  9.9  pts
JR:     31.5 mpg 32.8$ FG  28.6% 3pt 59.1% FT 4.6 reb 1.9 ast  11.7 pts

The poor coaching and poor play of our guards sucked the life out of Bargs. All those losses broke team spirit. Before Bargs lost all his confidence and enthusiasm, he was doing OK. Woody didn't make sure to keep him a part of the action. Bargs is the kind of player that has to be involved. He'll drift if he's not getting touches. That's the beauty of the Triangle, the ball gets to touch everyones hands and they are all active and engaged on every play.

dude you need to chill out with that crap and relax. You want to hang your hat on a 13 game stretch like that's something to hold on to even though he still had a negative +/-. What about December and January when he was "getting minutes"? I guess those don't count. He started the season sucking then had a good 13 games so the other 27 games just do not count.

He the definition of a negative player but I know to you he is awesome.

Well if he can't base his perfomance during a 13 game stretch, how do you base it on a 27 game stretch, with so many other issues that the team had.

Are you saying Barg can never be good no matter who you put around him, or no matter what system he plays in?

Are you taking woodson system into consideration, the PG play, the passes he got, the timing of his shots?

Are you determining his success strickly of off stats, is that truly the way to judge a player.

Bargs has never put together a really great season in his entire career? Even when he was putting up 17-20 points a game he was doing so inefficiently and playing atrocious defense. Then, the past 3 or 4 seasons he's been atrocious.

Why should we think he is all of sudden going to play up to expectations now?

No I believe he had 2 efficient shooting years(going from memory could be wrong) but that didn't make up for being a waste in the other areas of the game. Honestly he could still be what he is on offense and still have an impact if he played quality team defense.

The only hope I have for Bargnani is that it is a contract year for him. "Contract" Bargnani may very well turn into NBA player and hopefully moves on to another team.

Fair enough.

That GIF makes me want to gouge out my eyes. LOL.

VCoug wrote:

Markji wrote:

nixluva wrote:If you look at the following highlight video notice the offense we're running and how sloppy it is. How often Bargnani gets the ball out of prime position. So often guys are just standing around. Also he's a much more active player when he's been involved in the game. He'll defend better. It's just the way he is. Seems to me that many of his coaches haven't paid attention to this. Now in this system at least the ball is designed to be passed to the big men so they can get a feel and be involved. He can survey the court and see what the defense does and make better decisions, closer to the basket. What I see in this video is a player with talent and size that needs to be coached up. He has the ability to do so much more than he has. Let's see what Phil and his boys can do.

I agree with Nixluva on Bargs. Better coaching and team ball will help him. We have a 7 footer who can shoot the 3.

What I like on this video is seeing how far out and how reluctant Dwight Howard is to come out to the 3 pt line to guard Bargs. The result is that Bargs is open for the 3, and also Howard is out of position for the rebound. It screws up Houston's D and rebounding positions.

Who is this 7-footer who can shoot from 3? It certainly isn't Bargnani. He hasn't shot well from 3 in 5 years, 2009-10, when he shot 37%. Since then he's shot 34%, 29%, 30%, and 27%.

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Markji wrote:

nixluva wrote:If you look at the following highlight video notice the offense we're running and how sloppy it is. How often Bargnani gets the ball out of prime position. So often guys are just standing around. Also he's a much more active player when he's been involved in the game. He'll defend better. It's just the way he is. Seems to me that many of his coaches haven't paid attention to this. Now in this system at least the ball is designed to be passed to the big men so they can get a feel and be involved. He can survey the court and see what the defense does and make better decisions, closer to the basket. What I see in this video is a player with talent and size that needs to be coached up. He has the ability to do so much more than he has. Let's see what Phil and his boys can do.

I agree with Nixluva on Bargs. Better coaching and team ball will help him. We have a 7 footer who can shoot the 3.

What I like on this video is seeing how far out and how reluctant Dwight Howard is to come out to the 3 pt line to guard Bargs. The result is that Bargs is open for the 3, and also Howard is out of position for the rebound. It screws up Houston's D and rebounding positions.

Who is this 7-footer who can shoot from 3? It certainly isn't Bargnani. He hasn't shot well from 3 in 5 years, 2009-10, when he shot 37%. Since then he's shot 34%, 29%, 30%, and 27%.

Yeah, it's not that people are reluctant to guard Bargs on the perimeter!

Yeah he needs to stop taking 3s. I am not sure he can. Has there been an example where a player "eliminated" (figuratively) the 3? Maybe Wade but I am not sure the volumes he used to shoot and how many seasons he shot more than 2-3 a game.

nixluva wrote:I said this all last year, Bargs has been a top tier Pick and Pop player and should be used that way. Get him in the midrange where he can use that skill and his game should be more efficient. He doesn't have to really be a great % 3pt shooter the fact that he can go out there is still effective in spacing the floor. In the end it's about coaching and putting your players in the best position to succeed. This is the best system for Bargs IMO. It keeps him in the part of his game that he is best at. No one is saying he's a great player, but we have him on the roster and it's incumbent upon Fish to get the best out of him. I think Phil said he expected a good year from Bargs because he knows he should be better with their coaching and system.

I love that we can actually use Knicks SL games to show some of the basic options this offense creates. This video shows some of the Pinch Post options which should fit Bargs skills just fine. It's hard to fully understand but you have to imagine how a player would fit in with their skills. Melo and Bargs both have the kind of game that should thrive in these setups. The pinch post out at the elbow is a perfect spot for these guys. Help can't come because of the off ball action and that leaves a great one on one situations.

there are a lot of guys who could go out to the 3 point line and make 25% of their 3 point shots. That doesn't mean they help spread the floor. They might just be providing comic relief for the opponent.

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:To me Bargs sucks and is a net negative on the court until he proves otherwise. Jackson is talking him
up and paying lip service cause we are stuck with him til 2015.

Onviously I don't have high hopes for a Bargs renaissance. Believe me I wish it will happen but I think it's well past proven that he is garbage no matter what system he is in.

I hope I'm wrong (I've been wrong many times before and am a pessimist so...)

Always better to be a pessimist... you can never be disappointed when proven right, and when you're wrong you're happy to be so.

I think Bargnani will have a resurgence, offensively, and do fine with the Triangle.

Problem is on the other end, where it will be hard to teach a guy, who for years has been a poor rebounder and help defender, how to do better in those areas. Some of this has to do with a kind of instinct that you've developed over the years. He simply does not have that ball hawking mentality that good rebounders have and a weak side help attitude that you see in the best shot blockers.

You may be able to get him to think about these things a little more, and maybe he makes some effort, but you really need him paired with players who can mask his deficiencies.

Bargs really didn't have a bad year last year, but he is who he is.. a good mirange shooter who doesn't create or play defense and rebound..

He doesn't bring to the table what the knicks need.. so even when he plays well, it is like.. Ok.. no huge impact... because he just isn't good enough at what he does to move the meter much..

I keep hearing this talk of the Triangle like it is magic dust.. sprinkle on any scrub player and they are better... Here is a key, good players usually play well in most any system... the triangle can expose you as well as could any system, and especially so for players that are not that good like bargnani..

I really don't expect much from this dude.. as someone said, we have enough data on him to pretty much determine that bargs is not that good...

I remember a few games last year where Bargs was a beast on defense, in particular against Dwight Howard.
I also remember the announcer stating: "I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but what are the Knicks going to do on defense when Bargnani hits the bench?"

A few of those games he had some very inspiring blocks and generally played with Passion... but then he got hurt.

If healthy, Bargnani will have a great 14/15 season... and of course it will help that it is a contract year.