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Begley: Source says Knicks open to dealing Shump, JR, Larking
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Nalod
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7/21/2014  8:22 AM
1. Maybe shump been holding back since his operation and coach's told him to go hard all the time!
2. Dont get to focused on Summer league. Larkin is not a big guard, and that is how Phish likes them.
3. We don't know who would be coming back in a trade.
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StarksEwing1
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7/21/2014  8:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2014  8:30 AM
Uptown wrote:
dwiley20 wrote:Let JR go...Hardaway no defense...smith no defense...Larkin is the futue young and quick!!!! calderon n prigioni is old

Let JR go for what? I know he;s a head case, but he's the best all round back court player on the team. He's also, arguably our second best scorer for better or worse. I get that people don't like him but he's too talented to just dump for a bag of balls

JR had one real good year two years back but he is too inconsistent and unreliable. Also hardaway looks great so he will provide secondary scoring
EnySpree
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7/21/2014  8:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2014  9:00 AM
All of our shooting guards are inconsistent and unreliable.

When Jr is in his game, he's an all star.
When thjr is on his game he looks like a legit starting caliber NBA shooting guard.
When shump is on his game he is a role player off the bench.

When Jr is off his game, he's still a solid starter, first guard off the bench guy.
When thjr is off his game, he's still a deadly 3pt sniper.
When shump is off his game, he's a D league player.

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Jmpasq
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7/21/2014  9:10 AM
Is the PG situation that good where the Knicks should be dealing away anyone? Unless we pet another PG back or a first round pick I dont like the idea of dealing Larkin
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knicks1248
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7/21/2014  9:14 AM
EnySpree wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

Really like who? Who is gonna lock down the perimeter Calderon?

Catch up dude I already explained that.

And this isn't football. One guy isn't going to lock down the perimeter defense and when was the lady time Shump ha locked down anything. Wellington or Shannon could be kept to bring a defensive soak. Jr Smith and ThJr are our starting and lead reserve at shooting guard.

So basically you would rather wellington and shannon, then shump, dude your tripping.

ES
Jmpasq
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7/21/2014  9:15 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:The reason Shump hasn't improved may because he tore his ACL and hasn't had a summer to work on his game some he entered the league- ridiculous to give up on him this early, especially as he showed an improved 3pt shot in his second year.
I don't know if Shump is going to put it together. These were some of the concerns about him going into the draft.
Weaknesses: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts. Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...


http://www.nbadraft.net/players/iman-shumpert
I think he has the same issues going into his fourth year.

Yep same reasons I was against picking him in the first place. His rookie year he surprised me and I thought I was wrong about him but 2 years later the same concerns are still there. He hasnt gotten any better
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knicks1248
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7/21/2014  9:23 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:The reason Shump hasn't improved may because he tore his ACL and hasn't had a summer to work on his game some he entered the league- ridiculous to give up on him this early, especially as he showed an improved 3pt shot in his second year.
I don't know if Shump is going to put it together. These were some of the concerns about him going into the draft.
Weaknesses: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts. Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...


http://www.nbadraft.net/players/iman-shumpert
I think he has the same issues going into his fourth year.

On draft night, I posted his draft express youtube clip, weaknesses and strength, and trust me they were spot on. Sadly in 3 yrs, absolutely nothing has change as far as his weaknesses and his mental.

Thats half on him, and half on the coaching staff. I wouldn't mind trading him, but I really think phil likes him, in fact i think he really like all 3 of them (base on his summer league interview) and is hoping the coaching staff can get them to the next level.

ES
EnySpree
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7/21/2014  9:40 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

Really like who? Who is gonna lock down the perimeter Calderon?

Catch up dude I already explained that.

And this isn't football. One guy isn't going to lock down the perimeter defense and when was the lady time Shump ha locked down anything. Wellington or Shannon could be kept to bring a defensive soak. Jr Smith and ThJr are our starting and lead reserve at shooting guard.

So basically you would rather wellington and shannon, then shump, dude your tripping.

No I want Jr Smith and thjr instead of Shump....for 3rd string I'd take Shannon or wellington and trade Shump to improve the team. It's about team not whether you keep your favorite player. We got 5 shooting guards on the roster and guys like dantay Jones in the free agent pool. Shump is expendable. If he's so good then he'll get us good value on the trade front. We have other issues to deal with.

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fishmike
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7/21/2014  10:17 AM
Dantay Jones is a nice defender on the wing. Not much else and he didnt play last year. That being said a guy like THjr could learn a lot by seeing his minutes taken by a who adds little besides defense and rebounding
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knicks1248
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7/21/2014  10:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2014  10:24 AM
EnySpree wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

Really like who? Who is gonna lock down the perimeter Calderon?

Catch up dude I already explained that.

And this isn't football. One guy isn't going to lock down the perimeter defense and when was the lady time Shump ha locked down anything. Wellington or Shannon could be kept to bring a defensive soak. Jr Smith and ThJr are our starting and lead reserve at shooting guard.

So basically you would rather wellington and shannon, then shump, dude your tripping.

No I want Jr Smith and thjr instead of Shump....for 3rd string I'd take Shannon or wellington and trade Shump to improve the team. It's about team not whether you keep your favorite player. We got 5 shooting guards on the roster and guys like dantay Jones in the free agent pool. Shump is expendable. If he's so good then he'll get us good value on the trade front. We have other issues to deal with.

At this point in his career, who exactly do you think were going to get for shump. IMO his value is about as high as Torre Murry with a higher ceiling. Shump played like a 3rd stringer last season, and thats the type of value you'll get for him.

With that being said, we all know he's better than that, he's shown enough flashes to convince us and the rest of the league he has talent, but what we don't know is, will he ever tap into it, or will somebody bring it out of him.

I say put him around a mostly veteran roster, and a solid system and watch him grow. I think he could be as good as ARIZA offensively, defensively, skies the limit. Are you ready to lose out on that for a back up SF.

ES
gunsnewing
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7/21/2014  10:27 AM
There is no reason to trade him now. If anything trade him after his value increases and his contract is up. JR is the one you should trade now. He makes more than Shumpert and is a headache on and off the court.
EnySpree
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7/21/2014  10:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2014  10:31 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

Really like who? Who is gonna lock down the perimeter Calderon?

Catch up dude I already explained that.

And this isn't football. One guy isn't going to lock down the perimeter defense and when was the lady time Shump ha locked down anything. Wellington or Shannon could be kept to bring a defensive soak. Jr Smith and ThJr are our starting and lead reserve at shooting guard.

So basically you would rather wellington and shannon, then shump, dude your tripping.

No I want Jr Smith and thjr instead of Shump....for 3rd string I'd take Shannon or wellington and trade Shump to improve the team. It's about team not whether you keep your favorite player. We got 5 shooting guards on the roster and guys like dantay Jones in the free agent pool. Shump is expendable. If he's so good then he'll get us good value on the trade front. We have other issues to deal with.

At this point in his career, who exactly do you think were going to get for shump. IMO his value is about as high as Torre Murry with a higher ceiling. Shump played like a 3rd stringer last season, and thats the type of value you'll get for him.

With that being said, we all know he's better than that, he's shown enough flashes to convince us and the rest of the league he has talent, but what we don't know is, will he ever tap into it, or will somebody bring it out of him.

I say put him around a mostly veteran roster, and a solid system and watch him grow. I think he could be as good as ARIZA offensively, defensively, skies the limit. Are you ready to lose out on that for a back up SF.

Yes.

We don't have time to coddle d league talent at the expense of the rest of the team.

I say trade him to Chicago for dunlevy. He can go there and blend in with the vets like you want him to.

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knicks1248
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7/21/2014  10:35 AM
EnySpree wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
EnySpree wrote:All signs points to Shump being traded.....I keep saying it. He's the easiest to move. We have shooting guards here that can do what he does.

Really like who? Who is gonna lock down the perimeter Calderon?

Catch up dude I already explained that.

And this isn't football. One guy isn't going to lock down the perimeter defense and when was the lady time Shump ha locked down anything. Wellington or Shannon could be kept to bring a defensive soak. Jr Smith and ThJr are our starting and lead reserve at shooting guard.

So basically you would rather wellington and shannon, then shump, dude your tripping.

No I want Jr Smith and thjr instead of Shump....for 3rd string I'd take Shannon or wellington and trade Shump to improve the team. It's about team not whether you keep your favorite player. We got 5 shooting guards on the roster and guys like dantay Jones in the free agent pool. Shump is expendable. If he's so good then he'll get us good value on the trade front. We have other issues to deal with.

At this point in his career, who exactly do you think were going to get for shump. IMO his value is about as high as Torre Murry with a higher ceiling. Shump played like a 3rd stringer last season, and thats the type of value you'll get for him.

With that being said, we all know he's better than that, he's shown enough flashes to convince us and the rest of the league he has talent, but what we don't know is, will he ever tap into it, or will somebody bring it out of him.

I say put him around a mostly veteran roster, and a solid system and watch him grow. I think he could be as good as ARIZA offensively, defensively, skies the limit. Are you ready to lose out on that for a back up SF.

Yes.

We don't have time to coddle d league talent at the expense of the rest of the team.

I say trade him to Chicago for dunlevy. He can go there and blend in with the vets like you want him to.

want him to..lol, I'm just suggesting that judging from what i see, but now your calling him D league talent..Is that what you think of him..smh

ES
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7/21/2014  10:41 AM
Knicks1248 yes I do think he's d league talent. If he wasn't in his rookie deal he would be dahntay Jones looking for someone to throw him a contract.

We have Jr Smith and thjr. We don't need to coddle shump.

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SupremeCommander
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7/21/2014  10:50 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
VCoug wrote:I don't understand this:

Tim Hardaway Jr. has been deemed virtually untouchable, per a source.

THJr had a decent rookie year but nothing to really celebrate. He showed a decent touch on wide open 3s, and he was much better than Shumpert, and that he's good in transition. In literally every other aspect of the game he ranges from bad to godawful. Unless he develops an ability to pass the ball effectively and/or improves his defense from non-existent to bad I don't think he has much of a future. If anything, we should be looking to move him because his value is likely never to be higher.

Can't judge Hardaway Jr to critical as last season(his rookie yr) was horrible all around. He is under a rookie scale contract so it would be worth it to see his game evolve with a full year under the triangle and with Fisher & Phil behind him. There is really no reason to move him unless blown away by the offer. He seems like a kid with his head on straight and only focused on basketball as well. Could be groomed into a consistent glue type of guy.

I just see it as: untouchable now = higher value later

I don't think everyone is sold that he's the future of the NBA. I do think he's going to get a lot better though. If you are going to trade him it may as well be when everyone thinks he's a future 18 time all star, which I could see everyone saying, once he staarts averaging 14 or 15 points a game.

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7/21/2014  10:53 AM
EnySpree wrote:
smackeddog wrote:The reason Shump hasn't improved may because he tore his ACL and hasn't had a summer to work on his game some he entered the league- ridiculous to give up on him this early, especially as he showed an improved 3pt shot in his second year.

What are you expecting Shump to be after all this time in the league? Winning basketball is not built on the backs of guys with wasted potential.

He's a pro, the Acl tear is an excuse. Guys come back from that all the time. No excuse why he hadn't reached his potential. He's not going to become d wade all of a sudden. Shump is a role player, bench guy. Wellington or Shannon can fit that role with no problem... And that role is 3rd string shooting guard

he's definitely a bench guy... but if he turns into the next James Posey that's definitely a win. So from that aspect I'd rather have Shump more than Wellington or Brown even though all three's production will be somewhat similar.

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
Silverfuel
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7/21/2014  10:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2014  10:54 AM
EnySpree wrote:Knicks1248 yes I do think he's d league talent. If he wasn't in his rookie deal he would be dahntay Jones looking for someone to throw him a contract.

We have Jr Smith and thjr. We don't need to coddle shump.


Shumpert hasn't done much or shown much improvement in the 3 years he has been here. Not only that, he is also known to be a low IQ and an injury prone player. Time to cut our losses.
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fishmike
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7/21/2014  11:15 AM
Silverfuel wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Knicks1248 yes I do think he's d league talent. If he wasn't in his rookie deal he would be dahntay Jones looking for someone to throw him a contract.

We have Jr Smith and thjr. We don't need to coddle shump.


Shumpert hasn't done much or shown much improvement in the 3 years he has been here. Not only that, he is also known to be a low IQ and an injury prone player. Time to cut our losses.
botom line is his QO is about $4mm next year, and we know if he's here the KNicks are not picking that up renouncing his bird rights/cap hold.

So assuming he's not part of the plan for next year and JR is still under contract and simply better in every way, its a no brainer. If I could get a #1 next the end of the draft I would take happily.

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knicks1248
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7/21/2014  11:52 AM
fishmike wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Knicks1248 yes I do think he's d league talent. If he wasn't in his rookie deal he would be dahntay Jones looking for someone to throw him a contract.

We have Jr Smith and thjr. We don't need to coddle shump.


Shumpert hasn't done much or shown much improvement in the 3 years he has been here. Not only that, he is also known to be a low IQ and an injury prone player. Time to cut our losses.
botom line is his QO is about $4mm next year, and we know if he's here the KNicks are not picking that up renouncing his bird rights/cap hold.

So assuming he's not part of the plan for next year and JR is still under contract and simply better in every way, its a no brainer. If I could get a #1 next the end of the draft I would take happily.

Oh no doubt ,but i'm absolutely willing to give him 3 more months. I just don't see the rush in trading one when you don't know what your getting in anyone of them.

Woodson turned JR (or maybe it was the fact that he was in a contract year) into the best sixth man in the NBA, he carried the knicks when melo got hurt.

I'm pointing that out because I think Fisher and Phil can have the same impact on shump, but again I'm not oppose to trading any of them, just don't give me your junk

ES
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7/21/2014  11:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2014  11:57 AM
Seems the Pistons aren't asking much for Josh Smith. I don't see any fire with this report from Begley, just smoke, but if the Knicks are willing to gamble on Smith and his contract...Shump and JR plus our trade exception would get it done.
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