Sadly, what inevitably is getting lost in this shift is a sense of continuity over time. Not only will the new agreement make it virtually impossible for teams — no matter how fat their wallets — to assemble lineups with more than two or three bona fide stars, it will also significantly reduce the number of players who can play the bulk of their careers on the same team. When I was with the Knicks, most of the key players on our championship teams — including Bill Bradley, Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, and Dave DeBusschere — were together for six years or more. That may never happen again. Instead we’re going to see a lot of teams made up of one or two stars and a cast of interchangeable specialty players on short-term contracts. As a result, it will be even more difficult to build the kind of group consciousness necessary to excel. The only remedy is to create a culture that empowers the players and gives them a strong foundation to build upon. Otherwise they’ll be too insecure to focus their energy on bonding together as a team.

I know there are really only 2 maybe 3 guys down on Phil and thats because they cant stomach Melo, but this some of the sweetest kool-aid I have ever lapped up. Let the players grow. Let the players develop. Make it about them. Give them anything and everything they need to grow, and do it in a team concept.

Im hoping that Phil is the next Gene "stick" Michael as he was the guy who was instrumental in changing the culture within the Yankees. Suddenly young talent was valued and developed, and FA was used to a tool to balance a roster, not build it. Also remember Dolan has great willingness to spend. So hopefully the upcoming cap space is able to procure us some young talent, but once we have you know it wont be lost because of cost.

Whats your flavor?

jrodmc wrote:"group consciousness" "empowering cultural remedies"
Agreed: the early [heh heh] returns look good. He's mixing and matching approaches. I want to see his next trade/big move.

I haven't felt this good, management-wise, since we got rid of Scurry and JJames.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I agree. That's why I was so high on the trade. I saw the young talent as a means to add that talent we need to surround Melo. It's not going to be easy to sign a Marc Gasol away from his team. You can rely on taking other teams stars. It's better to develop your own. They're cheaper and thus u can have them longer. Phil seems to be making sure we have young talent developing regardless of how the FA thing goes. The cupboard won't be bare.

I agree with most of what Fish said, but i disagree about developing young talent, or to put another way, trying to develop talent you don't plan on keeping long term.

Players are signing much shorter contracts after there rookie one, everyone is signing for 1,2,3 yrs. More than 50% of the league will have cap space every off season, meaning more options for everyone. So once you develop a player, your either going to trade him (see how most don't care weather we trade shump or not)or the player will bounce if he feels like it(see lance stephenson, chandler parson).

Every thing is a 3 yr project, if you come very close in yr 3, maybe you push it to 4 yrs, but after that it's blow up time and re tool.

This isn't the days where FA sign on for lengthy contracts , and rookies get to play out their rookie contracts, uh uh!! Teams want flexibility, and players want options. thats what the new CBA is about.

I like Phills philosophy, he will get this team a championship, and MELO will become a smarter player ,I'll put my last dollar on that.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I agree. That's why I was so high on the trade. I saw the young talent as a means to add that talent we need to surround Melo. It's not going to be easy to sign a Marc Gasol away from his team. You can rely on taking other teams stars. It's better to develop your own. They're cheaper and thus u can have them longer. Phil seems to be making sure we have young talent developing regardless of how the FA thing goes. The cupboard won't be bare.

I agree with most of what Fish said, but i disagree about developing young talent, or to put another way, trying to develop talent you don't plan on keeping long term.

Players are signing much shorter contracts after there rookie one, everyone is signing for 1,2,3 yrs. More than 50% of the league will have cap space every off season, meaning more options for everyone. So once you develop a player, your either going to trade him (see how most don't care weather we trade shump or not)or the player will bounce if he feels like it(see lance stephenson, chandler parson).

Every thing is a 3 yr project, if you come very close in yr 3, maybe you push it to 4 yrs, but after that it's blow up time and re tool.

This isn't the days where FA sign on for lengthy contracts , and rookies get to play out their rookie contracts, uh uh!! Teams want flexibility, and players want options. thats what the new CBA is about.

I like Phills philosophy, he will get this team a championship, and MELO will become a smarter player ,I'll put my last dollar on that.

here's thing. Why do we have to lose any talent that we develop? Thats the point with Dolan. If a guy grows and improves and outplays his contract why wouldnt the Knicks pay? We are are on the teams that can have an $80mm payroll if we are making it to the second round. I would suspect if our payroll got there it would be to sustain the winning thats going on, as opposed to pissing billions away on overpaid players cast off from other teams.

It doesn't always come down to the team, if the player feel like he will have a better opportunity else where, bye bye. you think the knicks really wanted to get rid of lin, if JR has a break out yr, he can opt out this season, and get a 2 to 3 million raise from somebody else. I know Jr is not exactly a prospect, but if he plays well, and we go far, he's not going to give NY a discount.

If gasol comes here through in a S&T or any other star player, you can kiss those prospects good bye. The knicks have been smart to not give up shump or TJ, for some borderline star, like lowry, but what happens if Aldridge, or Monroe become available.

Thats why trading pick when your capped out is so bad. Worst case you can always draft someone. If they blow up you can always pay your own guys, bird rights and all.

That is the ONLY reason I am dead set about trading Shump. I dont want to have to pay a guy with one great year (contract year) in a year when I have cap space to sign a star (or two).

There have have been numerous GM's who also suscribes to this line of thinking as well, one of them being RC Buford, the GM of the spurs? is there any franchise in the NBA that is as team oriented as the spurs? and they have been doing it well for over a decade.. I am pretty sure Buford doesn't have a 60 mil contract....

Donnie walsh changed the culture of the knicks and dolan asked him to take a pay cut...

Phil is a good dude tho... HOF fame coach for sure..

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:"group consciousness" "empowering cultural remedies"
Agreed: the early [heh heh] returns look good. He's mixing and matching approaches. I want to see his next trade/big move.

I haven't felt this good, management-wise, since we got rid of Scurry and JJames.

you blaspheme.... JJames is a legend

Big Games have never been the same since he left.

tkf wrote:There have been a number of posters including myself who have stressed the importance of having a solid foundation and culture.

There have have been numerous GM's who also suscribes to this line of thinking as well, one of them being RC Buford, the GM of the spurs? is there any franchise in the NBA that is as team oriented as the spurs? and they have been doing it well for over a decade.. I am pretty sure Buford doesn't have a 60 mil contract....

Donnie walsh changed the culture of the knicks and dolan asked him to take a pay cut...

Phil is a good dude tho... HOF fame coach for sure..

Donnie Walsh did absolutely nothing to change the culture of this franchise...

I challenge you to explain how he changed anything. You're probably going to say something along the lines of "Donny was doing great things then Carmelo happened" but that doesn't mean he changed any culture, it means he tried and FAILED to change anything.

Knicksfan wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:When people ask Phil ow successful the Knicks can be next season, he always mentions that it depends on how the players develop. He is set on letting the core of this team grow together and become winners. The system will enhance that. The Young SummerKnicks have adopted that idea with open arms and are enjoying success. If the veterans do the same, I wouldn't be surprised to see this same team have a season like in 2012-2013 instead of the 2013-2014 fiasco.

there isnt much to buy into... its perfect for the guys who are still here.

Wasn't good passing one of our calling cards in 2012-2013, along with accuracy on 3pt land?

Maybe next year will be an improved version of that. Maybe? It will surely be.

The Triangle provides the players with the tools to intuitively deal with what the defense tries to take away and it works WITH bigs involved rather than to only do well playing small as we did that year. The Triangle gets everyone involved and moving so that the defense can't easily take away static shooters like what happened in the playoffs against good defense.

tkf wrote:There have been a number of posters including myself who have stressed the importance of having a solid foundation and culture.

There have have been numerous GM's who also suscribes to this line of thinking as well, one of them being RC Buford, the GM of the spurs? is there any franchise in the NBA that is as team oriented as the spurs? and they have been doing it well for over a decade.. I am pretty sure Buford doesn't have a 60 mil contract....

Donnie walsh changed the culture of the knicks and dolan asked him to take a pay cut...

Phil is a good dude tho... HOF fame coach for sure..

TKF, truthfully are you down on Phil cause he maxed Melo? Before you call me a Melo fanboy I'll just say that my view on Carmelo the basketball player aligns much more with those who have been down on his game. I was also against maxing him out and thought the best course of action was letting him walk and going for a high pick next year plus cap space in 2015 or signing and trading him.

All that being said, Phil throwing the max at him _must_ mean that he believes that implementing his "system", top to bottom, management through team running system basketball will force Carmelo into stepping up his game. Will that happen? Who knows. But Phil certainly staked his reputation on it. If Phil was against the move, I think he would have one foot out the door since I don't think Jackson would stay as Pres w/o the aforementioned "full autonomy" over basketball decisions. Dolan also has just as sordid a history giving WAY too much latitude/autonomy to inept GMs like Layden as he does with inserting himself and imposing horrible directives onto the so called "basketball people".

I thought Jackson was gently jettisoning Carmelo out the door but I guess I was zen mastered because it's not clear Jax is rolling the dice and will try to bring Carmelo to the "next level" as he did with Kobe, Jordan, et al. I think even you can admit that Carmelo's problems aren't due to lack of talent but a stubbornness I guess you can say and a style of play that he has been afforded the leniency to play his whole career which only gets you so far (iso ball, hero ball, volume scoring, inefficiency--whatever you want to call it). There's no reason Carmelo _couldnt_ throw up 5 or 6 assists a game and reduce his shot attempts. These are changes that only take a change in mindset to implement.

Anyway, as I said I have never been a huge fan of CArmelos game but I am a Knicks fan so I can only hope that Phil is right in his feeling that he can set up a system/team/organization that flourishes with Carmelo as the first major building block.

I am still on the Phil bandwagon. And I don't personally subscribe to the "well he's never been a President" train of thought simply cause Jackson has made it work And found great success wherever he goes and whatever he does in the NBA. I truly believe he is a smart guy with great instincts for the game.

Of course, if he proves to be horrible I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have no shame in admitting it. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

BigRedDog wrote:Phil is doing this just not for the money. I truly believe he wants to rebuild the Knicks for Red Holzman.

From his book--" What matters now is waking up every morning and getting a chance to do something I’ve always dreamed of: re-awakening the team that Red Holzman built, the team that changed my life forever."

I love Phil whenever I hear him speak.

Amazing quote! Phil is on a mission and it will be wonderful when he accomplishes it.