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I wish it were 2007
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Panos
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5/25/2004  12:16 PM
Just for kicks I went back to look at the teams salary break down again. Thing is I know its bad, but looking at it, it's so frustrating looking at some of the numbers on this list and what better we could get on the market for the same money! I know this isn't news to anybody, but had to vent, and if I can't do it here than where?

We all know what idiot signed Anderson to $8.5 million in 2006,
but Jeez, knowing he's an idiot, doesn't make it any better saddled with that for the next 3 years! We should start a class action suit against that guy! What is this guy worth on the market? $3M?
What genius GM signed Moochie Norris to a contract worth $4M/year? Of course, we acquired him for another gaffe by everybody's favorite moron. Let's not even start about Houston's $20 M per.

OK, here's my question. If you were GM of this team, and were to sign our current roster to fresh contracts (let's say by dictate of the team prez), how much would u give to each player. Be fair according to what you think each could get elsewhere reasonably. What would our cap situation be?

Mental masterbation, I know, but I'm not twisting your arm.
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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5/25/2004  12:55 PM
Marbury - $15 million annual salary
Houston - $9 million annual salary
TT - $7.5 million annual salary
Penny - $5 million annual salary
KT - $5 million annual salary
Nazr - $4 million annual salary
Shandon - $2.5 million annual salary
Vin Baker - $2 million annual salary
Sweetney - $1.9 million annual salary (rookie contract)
Harrington - $1.5 million annual salary
Mutombo - $1.5 million annual salary
DerMarr Johnson - Lowlevel Exception
Frank - $1 million annual salary (rookie contract)
Moochie - veterans' minimum
Trybanski - veterans' minimum

cap figure ~ $ 57.5 million? (still over the cap)

(i wanted to give alot of them the veteran's minimum, but like you said, i'm trying to be fair & consider what i think these guys could make on the open market right now)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Panos
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5/25/2004  1:02 PM
Is that $9M for Houston knowing or ignoring the knee prob? I.e., did you factor that into the price?

You think Shandon is worth more than Othella? Maybe. I guess. He frustrates the hell out of me. Not to say he wouldn't get $2.5M. Just wonder if Othella is getting undervalued playing on this team.

How about Penny vs. Kurt? Equal value? Dunno.
Panos
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5/25/2004  1:05 PM
Anyway, I think you are not too far off in general.
Interesting how we have multiple players making at least double what their value would be on the market. Only Baker and Dermarr making less.
TMS
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5/25/2004  1:06 PM
Penny could definitely get $5 million on the open market imo...if Brent Barry is looking to sign a 4 year MLE type deal, i don't see why Penny couldn't get the same in annual dollars (not length of contract).

& Shandon frustrates the hell out of me too...like i said, if it were up to me, i'd give him the league minimum...but other teams would probably be willing to take him for $2.5 mil imo.

& yes, i was factoring Allan Houston's knee into the equation...he'll still be at minimum a 15-16 ppg scorer for the next few seasons imo as soon as he's done rehabbing his knee...you figure Kerry Kittles is making about that type of money right now.

[Edited by - TMS on 05/25/2004 13:07:09]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Panos
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5/25/2004  1:11 PM
Posted by TMS:

Penny could definitely get $5 million on the open market imo...if Brent Barry is looking to sign a 4 year MLE type deal, i don't see why Penny couldn't get the same in annual dollars (not length of contract).
[Edited by - TMS on 05/25/2004 13:07:09]

Not saying he wouldn't. Just wonder if that means KT is worth more. Not saying he is, just posing the question.
TMS
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5/25/2004  1:16 PM
i don't think Kurt is worth more than the MLE either...last year i would have said he was, but he's lost a little of his interior toughness & he doesn't hustle for balls the way he used to when he was a role player coming off the bench...he's fallen in love w/that midrange jumper of his, which he can shoot, but he can't even convert an easy layup anymore w/o me holding my breath that it won't get blocked or won't drop at all.
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Nalod
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5/25/2004  1:31 PM
I think kurt's 8mm is fair. Assume he is healthy.

Penny if not signed would be retired now.

TT worth 6mm.

H20 is fair at 9mm, but not as a free agent.
diderotn
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5/25/2004  1:47 PM
no one in the Knicks is worth more than 8 mm. None of them has won a championship. As far as I am concerned, if you didn't help a team win a championship, you don't deserve a big check. Jordan won 6 rings and didn't make much money until the last two years, so did Pippen.
The true Knickabocker..........
Panos
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5/25/2004  1:52 PM
Posted by diderotn:

no one in the Knicks is worth more than 8 mm. None of them has won a championship. As far as I am concerned, if you didn't help a team win a championship, you don't deserve a big check. Jordan won 6 rings and didn't make much money until the last two years, so did Pippen.

That's inane. You can't build a championship team without paying some stars to come to your team. If you don't pay Marbury more than $10M, somebody else will.
I challenge you to put together a roster of 5 starting players you could realistically sign for $8M or less each that would win you a championship.
TMS
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5/25/2004  1:56 PM
so under that logic, you don't think KG is worth more than $8 million either i guess? & neither does T-Mac, Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitzki, Allen Iverson, Jermaine O'Neal, etc.?

only Shaq, Kobe & Tim Duncan deserve over $8 million
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tkf
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5/25/2004  2:10 PM
Not bad TMS, but I would say give TT 6.0 mil, and Anderson no more than 1.5 mil, at the highest.... even then we would still be over the cap.. that sucks!!!

[Edited by - tkf on 05/25/2004 14:12:15]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Panos
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5/25/2004  2:24 PM
Posted by tkf:

Not bad TMS, but I would say give TT 6.0 mil, and Anderson no more than 1.5 mil, at the highest.... even then we would still be over the cap.. that sucks!!!

[Edited by - tkf on 05/25/2004 14:12:15]

Its very interesting to note that we would be! What does that mean?

Does it mean that the cap is too low relative to the going market rate for a basket of players making up an average team like the Knicks?

That you have to have lots of players on your team getting paid well below market rate (i.e., young players) to make up for those getting paid market salaries?

That you have to have some complete scrubs on the roster that make next to nothing?
BigSm00th
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5/25/2004  2:31 PM
It means you have to be smart with your money, but if you're going to contend you have to go over the cap.

San Antonio did it right.

Shandon Anderson should make no money. Get him off the team. Same with Othella Harrington. Houston at $9 million is an awful lot for him, which is laughable since it's really underpriced vs. what he actually gets. He should get like $7 million, and Tim Thomas in the $6 million range.

You'd save some money here, but not much.
#Knickstaps
Panos
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5/25/2004  2:36 PM
Another possibility, is that the cap is not too low, but market rates for players is just too high. This could be because GMs need to produce wins today, with no real penalty if they saddle the team with long term crappy expensive contracts. Their jobs are on the line with the team's performance. So they go out and overbid for talent. Interesting dilemma. GM's should view their jobs as long term stock holders in the team. But that's never going to happen.
TMS
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5/25/2004  3:06 PM
in today's cap restricted market, you are severely limited in putting together a real championship contender...

the Lakers were lucky enough to get Shaq before the cap rules went into effect, & they were real smart in trading for the young phenom Kobe, even when they had a good veteran SG in his prime at the time in Eddie Jones...

the Spurs were lucky enough to stink bad enough in 1 season to land the best draft pick in years in Tim Duncan, & got even luckier in the draft when they absolutely stole Tony Parker in the '01 draft w/the 28th pick...

it takes alot of pure luck combined w/smart planning & tons of hard work to become a champion in any sport...at least we know that the team is being run by someone who KNOWS what it takes to be a champion.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
tkf
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5/25/2004  3:10 PM
Good point Panos. I think that the cap is a little low but there are just too many players with huge deals, and it is the amount of years that kills teams.. I agree Anderson should not get paid at all, and the fact that he got a 7 year deal is just assanine.. I think you have to be determined to not give max deals to average players, If you are going to pay a max deal, make sure that you are getting a franchise player or someone damn near close, like a marbury.. then you have to be smart with your other players... I look at a player like stephen Jackson who is making chump change compared to shandon anderson and I feel that Jackson should be paid in the 3 mil range, that is fair, but when stupid azz GM's give Anderson deals like he has, it is hard to negotiate with other players who are clearly better...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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