Colin Cowherd had a very interesting ESPN podcast concerning the emergence of "systems" in sports, and how they are becoming more effective than sheer talent. (He cited Germany over Brazil, Spurs over Miami, among others.) Do you need both? Yes, but as we have seen it seems clear that in the long run a system is more central to winning because systems are more reliable and create deeper teams. Systems don't break down, people do. Wade for instance. Last season, were it not for Ginobili breaking down from having played the previous summer, the Spurs would have prevailed. Ray Allen saved Miami from having the dubious distinction of reaching the Finals four times but winning only once. The Spurs outplayed the Heat and the Champagne was in their locker room. Mavs had a system too.

Hence, it is my hope that the ultimate anti-system player on the Knicks-- and he isn't the only one... there's Smith too-- will be able to conform to Jackson and Fisher's dictates.

I think Fisher is going to be a great coach for us, but I have to believe that without a steady use of the Triangle the Knicks will underachieve with Carmelo Anthiny.

dk7th wrote:Melo's is a nice sentiment but it needs unpacking. One wonders if it means not only building a winner player by player but also instituting the Triangle. In any event I hope it means that it won't be all about Melo ever again and that he will do exactly what is asked of him down to the finest details of the system. Phil: "I believe in system basketball."

Colin Cowherd had a very interesting ESPN podcast concerning the emergence of "systems" in sports, and how they are becoming more effective than sheer talent. (He cited Germany over Brazil, Spurs over Miami, among others.) Do you need both? Yes, but as we have seen it seems clear that in the long run a system is more central to winning because systems are more reliable and create deeper teams. Systems don't break down, people do. Wade for instance. Last season, were it not for Ginobili breaking down from having played the previous summer, the Spurs would have prevailed. Ray Allen saved Miami from having the dubious distinction of reaching the Finals four times but winning only once. The Spurs outplayed the Heat and the Champagne was in their locker room. Mavs had a system too.

Hence, it is my hope that the ultimate anti-system player on the Knicks-- and he isn't the only one... there's Smith too-- will be able to conform to Jackson and Fisher's dictates.

I think Fisher is going to be a great coach for us, but I have to believe that without a steady use of the Triangle the Knicks will underachieve with Carmelo Anthiny.

Its all about prayer.

Anthiny?

dk7th wrote:Melo's is a nice sentiment but it needs unpacking. One wonders if it means not only building a winner player by player but also instituting the Triangle. In any event I hope it means that it won't be all about Melo ever again and that he will do exactly what is asked of him down to the finest details of the system. Phil: "I believe in system basketball."

Colin Cowherd had a very interesting ESPN podcast concerning the emergence of "systems" in sports, and how they are becoming more effective than sheer talent. (He cited Germany over Brazil, Spurs over Miami, among others.) Do you need both? Yes, but as we have seen it seems clear that in the long run a system is more central to winning because systems are more reliable and create deeper teams. Systems don't break down, people do. Wade for instance. Last season, were it not for Ginobili breaking down from having played the previous summer, the Spurs would have prevailed. Ray Allen saved Miami from having the dubious distinction of reaching the Finals four times but winning only once. The Spurs outplayed the Heat and the Champagne was in their locker room. Mavs had a system too.

Hence, it is my hope that the ultimate anti-system player on the Knicks-- and he isn't the only one... there's Smith too-- will be able to conform to Jackson and Fisher's dictates.

I think Fisher is going to be a great coach for us, but I have to believe that without a steady use of the Triangle the Knicks will underachieve with Carmelo Anthiny.

I'd like what is a contradiction for the win Alex. I guess the spurs just put in their system this year and did not rely on their deep team last that doesn't break down because of one player.

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Also, some are speculating LeBron signs a two year deal with the heat with an opt out option after one year. Melo might structure his contract to accommodate something like that.

That would impress me. We shall see

will never happen.

Finestrg wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Does he believe in Phil enough to take less than the max? That's my question.. I know Phil wants him to take less and Melo said himself that he'd be willing to do it...I hope they ran through specific scenarios with him on how it would help the team either next year or the year after.

It sounded like he might take the max with the 7.5% decrease in salary in year 2 to allow the team flexibility. Not sure though. It seems everything is speculation at this point.

Is that the most he can do? Is that even enough to allow for a max FA next summer?

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

I think Woodson went to Melo's strengths. I D'Antoni tried to get Melo to fit in his system in a role that didn't suit his game. I think Melo in the triangle will work. Obviously Phil thinks so also.

when you hear melo saying "i trust phil" that can mean one of several things:

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

for those who recall that fisher said that he won't necessarily run the triangle, i am not buying it.

i agree with arkrud that melo's learning the triangle is farfetched if not impossible... knick fans have a good reason to remain highly highly skeptical.

I remain skeptical, because I don't think he is a smart enough player to flourish in that offense.. but if it were truly about winning he would have been in chicago.. let me ask this.. people keep saying " he needs a running mate", " someone to team up with"... yada, yada, yada.. well tell me were in the world are you going to find two players of the caliber of rose( assuming healthy) and noah? where?

So again carmelo, you had the chance to join a team with two players who are better than you that can carry you.. and supposedly he is chosing NY? why.. I can tell you why? the max money and extra years... its simple.. so I don't really trust anything this dude says... He says " I trust Phil" really? did this trust come before or after he offered the max carmelo?

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

and here is the problem I have with all of those scenarios..

1) chicago has a team already put together that the knicks would be lucky to have in the absolute best scenario under phil

2) Phil isn't coaching.

3) refer to #1

meloshouldgo wrote:Melo will believe in anyone and anything that helps him add to his collection of pictures of dead presidents
Melo being a system player is outright laughable. No system will suit his game. And unlike most people who get paid to do something, our man-child hero and his fans never got the memo that it's his game that needs to fit the system not the other way round. Such conceit!! Smells like the divine rights of Kings!!!!!!

very well put!!!!!

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:Melo is ultimate one-star team player.
He will defer only to bigger star. Otherwise it's a Molo-ball.
And if he will not take substantial pay-cut (and he should not) no bigger star will be around in NY before he well retire.
Both MDA and Woodhead tried to change Malo game and failed.
Not sure why Fish and Zen can succeed.
It is not about changing the team, it's about changing a man.
This is not realistic for 30 year old NBA veteran.

I think Woodson went to Melo's strengths. I D'Antoni tried to get Melo to fit in his system in a role that didn't suit his game. I think Melo in the triangle will work. Obviously Phil thinks so also.

when you hear melo saying "i trust phil" that can mean one of several things:

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

for those who recall that fisher said that he won't necessarily run the triangle, i am not buying it.

i agree with arkrud that melo's learning the triangle is farfetched if not impossible... knick fans have a good reason to remain highly highly skeptical.

I remain skeptical, because I don't think he is a smart enough player to flourish in that offense.. but if it were truly about winning he would have been in chicago.. let me ask this.. people keep saying " he needs a running mate", " someone to team up with"... yada, yada, yada.. well tell me were in the world are you going to find two players of the caliber of rose( assuming healthy) and noah? where?

So again carmelo, you had the chance to join a team with two players who are better than you that can carry you.. and supposedly he is chosing NY? why.. I can tell you why? the max money and extra years... its simple.. so I don't really trust anything this dude says... He says " I trust Phil" really? did this trust come before or after he offered the max carmelo?

1) i trust that phil will build a team around me that will cater to my style without me having to change my game, and never mind about that wack triangle
2) i realize my limitations as a player and i trust that phil can help me get acclimated to the triangle offense, ie system basketball, so that i can get over the hump
3) i trust that phil will bring in good players to fit into the triangle which i myself will work hard to learn and do my best to work within

and here is the problem I have with all of those scenarios..

1) chicago has a team already put together that the knicks would be lucky to have in the absolute best scenario under phil

2) Phil isn't coaching.

3) refer to #1

ha ha well i will say this-- i like fisher and i am rooting for him to succeed, which to me means utilizing the triangle, melo or no melo. but i will not be surprised if things devolve and quickly if melo is here and tries to undermine the objectives of the coach. the last system coach we had here was undermined and we saw what happened.

we should be able to tell even in preseason what we can expect this season.