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Knicks may revisit Shumpert deal with OKC
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BigDaddyG
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6/7/2014  9:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/7/2014  9:47 AM
So Shump's value is barely equal to that of low first-rounder? We're probably better off keeping Shump and giving him the opportunity to rebuild his value.

http://nypost.com/2014/06/06/knicks-may-revisit-shumpert-deal-with-okc/

The Knicks, a source confirmed, are expected to work out draft prospect P.J. Hairston, a 6-foot-5 shooting guard who was dismissed from North Carolina and played in the D-League last season. He’s projected in the 21-to-29 range.
Oklahoma City could also help the Knicks in free agency, as Thunder guards Thabo Sefolosha and Caron Butler are free agents. A lengthy defender, the 6-foot-7 Sefolosha had been the Thunder’s starting shooting guard for the last few years before losing his 3-point marksmanship and falling out of favor with coach Scott Brooks. The defensive specialist was benched for much of the playoffs.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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H1AND1
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6/7/2014  9:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/7/2014  10:30 AM
I don't know. As much as I want to think Shump will fulfill his potential I just don't see it happening at this point. If OKC wants to give it a shot, id take their pick in a deep draft. Phil needs guys who can pass and shoot for the triangle and Shump isn't a great shooter (nor has he ever been a consistently good shooter) and he's never shown any flashes of potential for being a good distributer.

Id be happy with any first rounder for him especially after this past season where he regressed.
Vmart
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6/7/2014  10:36 AM
I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.
NardDogNation
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6/7/2014  10:49 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/7/2014  10:54 AM
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.
NardDogNation
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6/7/2014  11:05 AM
I don't understand our interest in PJ Hairston, when Spencer Dinwiddie is expected to be on the board at that point. The guy looks like he'd be perfect at point in the triangle. Kudos to either RonRon or Finestrg for putting me onto him.
GustavBahler
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6/7/2014  11:08 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.

I wouldn't call him a bust, but its fair to say that most (myself included) expected more from Shump at this stage in his career. We might have differing opinions as to what numbers he should be putting up at this point, but I'm pretty sure no one expected what Iman put up last season. He may thrive somewhere else. Iman sure isn't thriving here.

I would consider a first round pick for Shump a good thing. I believe we could have gotten a high draft pick for him earlier in his career, but not anymore.
NardDogNation
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6/7/2014  11:13 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.

I wouldn't call him a bust, but its fair to say that most (myself included) expected more from Shump at this stage in his career. We might have differing opinions as to what numbers he should be putting up at this point, but I'm pretty sure no one expected what Iman put up last season. He may thrive somewhere else. Iman sure isn't thriving here.

I would consider a first round pick for Shump a good thing. I believe we could have gotten a high draft pick for him earlier in his career, but not anymore.

The ACL no doubt changed the trajectory of his career IMO. I don't think he's been the same since. But even if that's the case, I think there is a good shot he becomes a better shooting Toney Allen, which isn't bad. All he needs to do is tightening up his defense with his man going back door and to cut down on his foolish fouls to accomplish that. Just last season he was ranked as the 3rd best defensive guard in the league so I don't think that it is much of a stretch.
EnySpree
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6/7/2014  11:15 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.

I dunno about that but he was a reach by some draft experts at 21.... yet after we got him his summer mix tape had us all salivating.

With that said he is a bust. He's injury prone, sensitive and unfocused. He should not be the player he is now with his skill set. He also has his head on straight and talks a good game. He's a bust in ny. He should go somewhere else and see if it works.

I'm still down with trying him at the point guard though. But I can take or leave that idea

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BigDaddyG
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6/7/2014  11:18 AM
NardDogNation wrote:I don't understand our interest in PJ Hairston, when Spencer Dinwiddie is expected to be on the board at that point. The guy looks like he'd be perfect at point in the triangle. Kudos to either RonRon or Finestrg for putting me onto him.

Yeah, I think Hairston is a talent, but it's not like we need more two-guards. I'd prefer it if the team used it on a PG prospect. As for trading Shump, I'd be OK with it for the 21st pick. But if it's for pick 29, I think the team is better off trying to purchase a second round pick first.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
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6/7/2014  11:22 AM
EnySpree wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.

I dunno about that but he was a reach by some draft experts at 21.... yet after we got him his summer mix tape had us all salivating.

With that said he is a bust. He's injury prone, sensitive and unfocused. He should not be the player he is now with his skill set. He also has his head on straight and talks a good game. He's a bust in ny. He should go somewhere else and see if it works.

I'm still down with trying him at the point guard though. But I can take or leave that idea

If his skillset was so "salivating", why is it that he went so late in the draft? It had some good role players in it but their talent was nothing to swoon over. I suppose that you need to define what a "bust" is in your opinion, to better understand your position.
GustavBahler
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6/7/2014  11:24 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.

I wouldn't call him a bust, but its fair to say that most (myself included) expected more from Shump at this stage in his career. We might have differing opinions as to what numbers he should be putting up at this point, but I'm pretty sure no one expected what Iman put up last season. He may thrive somewhere else. Iman sure isn't thriving here.

I would consider a first round pick for Shump a good thing. I believe we could have gotten a high draft pick for him earlier in his career, but not anymore.

The ACL no doubt changed the trajectory of his career IMO. I don't think he's been the same since. But even if that's the case, I think there is a good shot he becomes a better shooting Toney Allen, which isn't bad. All he needs to do is tightening up his defense with his man going back door and to cut down on his foolish fouls to accomplish that. Just last season he was ranked as the 3rd best defensive guard in the league so I don't think that it is much of a stretch.

You're right about the ACL of course, it did stunt his growth as a player. Unfortunately it doesn't explain his inability to consistently finish at the rim this far into his career. Shumpert being a good defender is what would get us that low first round pick.

What Shump has to do is to learn how to vary his offense. Like a boxer who knows when to throw jabs, uppercuts, body blows, (just had a Mike Tyson Punchout flashback there) Iman has to do a better job of deciding how he is going to get buckets. Its mostly 3 point shooting, the occasional jumper, and that's about it. He needs to show a balanced attack.
Nalod
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6/7/2014  11:34 AM
21st picks don't always turn great. He was a risky asset from reading his draft review.

Wait until he reach's value? If we can get a low 1st round and a guy like Sephalosha thats pretty good value.

Its not about living with regret if Shump gets better, its about what you receive in value.

Shump might be great next to Durant and Westbrook, but that won't happen in NY!
yellowboy90
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6/7/2014  11:45 AM
I hope they look to Milwaukee and try to snag Middleton and the number 32 pick.
BigDaddyG
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6/7/2014  11:57 AM
Nalod wrote:21st picks don't always turn great. He was a risky asset from reading his draft review.

Wait until he reach's value? If we can get a low 1st round and a guy like Sephalosha thats pretty good value.

Its not about living with regret if Shump gets better, its about what you receive in value.

Shump might be great next to Durant and Westbrook, but that won't happen in NY!

Thabo is a free agent. We can obtain him without trading Shump. If Shump has to, he had to go. I just don't see that huge a difference between pick 29 and pick 39 in this draft.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Bonn1997
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6/7/2014  12:20 PM
I'd much rather have 4 years of a new guy on a rookie contract than Shumpert. Pick 21 would be great but I'd take pick 29 in a heartbeat.
gunsnewing
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6/7/2014  12:25 PM
Shumpert was pick 17
smackeddog
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6/7/2014  12:33 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Vmart wrote:I know he won't reach his potential I mean I was expecting a 17-5-5 season out of Shumpert, but now that I think about it after last season he is basically a bust. Besides its obvious he isn't devoted to basketball and has other interests.

How is he a bust? Because you grossly overestimated his abilities? He went 21st in the draft and usually those guys seldom become rotation players, let alone an elite specialist.

I wouldn't call him a bust, but its fair to say that most (myself included) expected more from Shump at this stage in his career. We might have differing opinions as to what numbers he should be putting up at this point, but I'm pretty sure no one expected what Iman put up last season. He may thrive somewhere else. Iman sure isn't thriving here.

I would consider a first round pick for Shump a good thing. I believe we could have gotten a high draft pick for him earlier in his career, but not anymore.

To be fair, he hasn't had a single offseason to actually work on his game- 1st one was spent rehabbing from the ACL tear, the second was spent rehabbing from that other knee surgery he had. I'd rather wait and see what he looks like after his first full offseason.
BigDaddyG
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6/7/2014  12:48 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:I'd much rather have 4 years of a new guy on a rookie contract than Shumpert. Pick 21 would be great but I'd take pick 29 in a heartbeat.

I'd rather buy a second round pick than trade Shump for pick 29. Pick 29 comes with a slotted salary guarantee, while we have more control over the terms of the second round pick.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fitzfarm
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6/7/2014  1:11 PM
Shump has had his injuries even during the first game of summer league ... He was a huge disappointment last year... Till the last quarter of the season when he became a beast on defense and his jumper was falling... He was aggressive on the boards as well... I think a healthy and conditioned shump is better then anything we get in the late first round esp # 29... This next year will be his first healthy off season.. We got to give him a healthy season.
knickscity
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6/7/2014  1:20 PM
Historically a pick that low doesnt even last as an nba player, even as a role player, it would be better to keep Shump.

Thabo is done, please pass....no to the Ronnie brewer remix.
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