Diamond #2: The idiot Savant we call JR smith. Not sure if JR can read the books Phil might give him without giggling, or have the comprehension to digest them but an in Shape mature evolution would do him wonders.

Phil wants guys that were his players and understand the power that they had in their careers as a part of a bigger picture. After all, isn't that what Phil did as a role player on the knicks?

Phil had back surgergy in 1970 and was not active in that first championshp. Phil was the NCAA leading scorer in college and at age 25 with a bad back (1970 back surgery was no joke!!!)and had to reinvent himself if he wanted an NBA career. Maybe this more than anything defined him as a player and had to have had a huge impact on him.

Kerr had to have his knee reconstructed and was redshirted his senior year in Arizona. Kerr and Phil didn't cave under the pressure of expectation, they grew from it. I know Fischer has a child with some serious illness. I don't know his story as well but Phil might see something in him. These are inspirational type achievement guys.

Is it so hard for JR to stop clubbing and not text about chicks asses he is in bed with? Get thru to to a guy like that that with his talent and maybe JR can see the glory of achievement will eventually bring the money he so desires? Does JR have self esteem issues? Does he measure money above all? Has anyone ever discussed why money is important and does he understand that if its the about security, feeling good about achievement, etc, then thats what its about and the compensation comes later!! Im sure JR has had lots of motivational exposure but seemingly not much of it has worked.

I dont' know whats keeping Bargnani from succeeding but his skill set and athletic ability is very high. The expectations in TOronto must have been huge and maybe his temperment is not suitable to "Be the man". OK, then what is the best role for him?

For all the talk about "Phil had Jordan and KObe" and thats why he won is nonsense. From the books I have read about Phil he is a very thoughtful person and while other coaches I would imagine try to and succeed at other levels, this guy has risen to be the all time bling master by assembling a group around his two best players on both Chicago and LA. Those group of players made Jordan and Kobe better and visa versa!!!

Phil wants a guy that gets him. I'll wait.

Talent wise, a core of Bargnani, Melo and JR with Chandler is very high. Chandler has been a part of a winning situation but the other three have yet to do this.

I don't care about previous experience or what Bargs, Melo and JR have not done before. If Phil think those three can do it, thats ok by me. I trust he knows what he is doing. If not, he'll blow it up.

Just a few opinions of Nalods based on what I know. Trust me, there is a lot more I DON'T KNOW.

Tune in!

Looking at that and the triangle, I can see where phil can have some success.

The biggest gap is at the point, but some have mentioned Shump playing that role.

At the two guard, there was jordan and kobe, our assumption is that will be melo and he will be used similarly.

At the 3, pippen...hmmm...this is where it is tough, maybe this is where he sees odom filling in? A long athletic medium?

At the 4, he tended to lean towards a robot like horace grant, or i think this is where Pau fits, that's bargs.

At at the center we have Chandler...defensive center.

Bench looks like Amare, JR, THjr, Prigs (who i actually can see starting for some reason) and others...

I've mentioned before, the 54 win team had less talent then the this year's and they also had less INJURIES.

I'm the king optimist, and I see this year being max successful, with our without (hopefully with).

My $0.02

Nalod wrote:From what I can see, Phil wants a new guy but one that played for him and "gets phil".........Perhaps if you played under him and bought in, then as an extension Phil can get that into the team.

If any of you had a mentor, then grew into a leadership role yourself you might undrrstand this better. One has to look at phils playing career and the events/relationships that molded him. Look who he is tight with? Bill Bradley! Dude was closer to being president than you think years ago. Bill was not just a basketball player or a successful senater, but a successful PERSON!!

Jerry Lucas has a photographic memory and parlayed that into a successful business beyond basketball. Clyde as an business man and announcer over a very long time, Debussure was a good executive, The last commish of the ABA. The KNicks championship team had a chemistry and very intellegent players lead by a coach who got them to play together.

Phil has done it his own way and as a mentor he will have to not just teach it, but also expect that coach to build on it and take ownership of it.

As far as Bargnani, or anyother player not an allstar its not for fans to believe in a guy or not but for Phil Jax to, and the eventual coach! Maybe Bargnani has been miscast, maybe he is lazy, maybe he is not capable at all to elevating! I don't know. I have seen the talent in spurts. DJ might be able to expand on his career better but I can recall this dude just light up the knicks from time to time. Injury? Confidence? Team culture? It all adds up!

Phil has walked into some great situations where the pieces were already in place...These organizations had great leadership...All Phil had to do was worry about coaching...

fishmike wrote:Nalod I certainly agree that some of the biggest improvements will come from within. We saw JR play focused for almost a whole year and he was a big reason behind the Knicks winning 54 games. What will we get from him under Phil's watch? Bargs? Amare? Shump? Will Phil pump and dump? Or actually try to work these parts into some kind of cohesive unit? Im looking forward to seeing his approach

I am looking at the current roster and thinking what we have, not what we don't! IM looking at Melo and his skill set (what he has) and can only say (not compare) that Kobe and Jordan gained huge stature under PHil! While Phil is not coaching, and Melo is no Jordan/Kobe he is an offensive force whom THE KNICKS might benefit greatly from a system bought in to by all. PHil will have a big role with this team the next two years in training. A fresh coach under his mentorship will have to allow for this. If the tag on melo is he does not make others better and he buys into the system he could change that. If so, Knicks improve around Melo.

By the way, "IMPROVE" is not just individual stats, its about team wins!

Personally I think Bargs is closer a player to Pau than he is to Will Perdue or Luke Longly.

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:From what I can see, Phil wants a new guy but one that played for him and "gets phil".........Perhaps if you played under him and bought in, then as an extension Phil can get that into the team.

If any of you had a mentor, then grew into a leadership role yourself you might undrrstand this better. One has to look at phils playing career and the events/relationships that molded him. Look who he is tight with? Bill Bradley! Dude was closer to being president than you think years ago. Bill was not just a basketball player or a successful senater, but a successful PERSON!!

Jerry Lucas has a photographic memory and parlayed that into a successful business beyond basketball. Clyde as an business man and announcer over a very long time, Debussure was a good executive, The last commish of the ABA. The KNicks championship team had a chemistry and very intellegent players lead by a coach who got them to play together.

Phil has done it his own way and as a mentor he will have to not just teach it, but also expect that coach to build on it and take ownership of it.

As far as Bargnani, or anyother player not an allstar its not for fans to believe in a guy or not but for Phil Jax to, and the eventual coach! Maybe Bargnani has been miscast, maybe he is lazy, maybe he is not capable at all to elevating! I don't know. I have seen the talent in spurts. DJ might be able to expand on his career better but I can recall this dude just light up the knicks from time to time. Injury? Confidence? Team culture? It all adds up!

Phil has walked into some great situations where the pieces were already in place...These organizations had great leadership...All Phil had to do was worry about coaching...

Thats horseshyt!

Where was the leadership in Chicago before he got there?
Where was teh leadership in Los angeles?

They were not championship caliber teams. Not like When Riley took over SHowtime who was just a year removed from winning a title.

The "pieces" were in place? Sure, great coach's are not great coach's unless they do something special right? Collins could not get thru to Jordan and Harris could not get thru to Kobe. In Chicago phil took a team that won 47 games under Collins and lost in the ECF's 4-2 to the Pistons. PHils first year they won 55 game and again lost, the next year they broke thru. I see value added and progress.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html

LA in strike short season was 31-19 finishing in 2nd place and losing in the second round of playoffs to eventual champs spurs in 4 straight games! Fuckface Kobe and Shaq were already there. Next year they win 67 games and the chip. Look at that roster beyond Kobe and Shaq http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2000.html. after Kobe, Rice and Shaq it drops off big.

Dude adds value and cultivated the leadership for the team.

Bottom line is you get to look and say that Jordan and pippen was why phil won but those two never won prior. Same for Shaq and Kobe.

No winning coach EVER WINS A CHIP WITHOUT GREAT PLAYERS BUT THERE IS A LONG ASS LIST OF COACHs WHO HAVE FALL SHORT WITH GREAT PLAYERS!

And I totally agree with you that the difference was Phil's presence and leadership...What I responded to was how I took your piece in context of how you went about showing Phil has carefully kept winners in his inner circle and how "Phil has done it his own way"..The picture presented is not entirely accurate, just saying...

Watching OKC was unreal. Even on defense, they were doing the KnickSwitch, and constantly had poor Fisher on Duncan. The Spurs kept going to the mismatch, and OKC didn't do anything to adjust.

Give this team a system on offense and a scheme on defense, and they will do ok, imo. The triangle is a must, because it doesn't need a point guard/floor general to facilitate, which is necessary because we don't have one.

I'm excited just to see these guys play this way, more than any signing or free agent.

Woodson, this year, said that they would take less three's. He said that they would go away from the small lineup "cuz da east is biiiggg...mannn". So basically, he took away the only thing that resembled anything close to a system offense that they had last year and gave them success. Dude had no clue.

But, anyone actually thinking he can be counted on for any contribution over a season is on crack.

I can't imagine him being on the roster or playing any games for us.

nixluva wrote:All I know is that when we went out west after Tyson went down, Bargs played Center and the team looked REALLY good. They won some games and tho it didn't last I think the way he was used in that stretch made sense. He's clearly morphed from the kind of player he once was and is more realistically a Center now. He would be playing in the post in the Triangle and he wouldn't be out there just freelancing. The beauty of the Triangle is that every move is scripted by the defense and for players like Bargs it simplifies the game. I don't know that he'll be successful in it, but it just might work.

This is what Bargs did before he went down when he was mostly playing Center. He wasn't putting up big numbers but he was playing better defensively at the Center spot during the 6-1 7 game Stretch. I think if Woody had stuck with what was working during that stretch we might have seen more growth from Bargs.

DATE	 OPP	 SCORE	MIN  FGM-FGA  FG% 3PM-3PA 3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%    REB  AST	BLK STL PF  TO	PTS
Wed 1/22 vsPHI L 106-110 28  7-12   .583  1-5	  .200	5-6	.833	4   0	4   0	4   5	20
Mon 1/20 vsBKN L 80-103	 19  2-6    .333  0-0	  .000	1-1	1.000	2   1	1   0	1   3	5
Fri 1/17 vsLAC L 95-109	 36  5-12   .417  0-2	  .000	3-4	.750	6   1	1   0	3   3	13
Thu 1/16 @ IND L 89-117	 32  3-9    .333  0-1	  .000	0-0	.000	7   0	2   0	2   2	6
Tue 1/14 @ CHA L 98-108	 22  3-4    .750  1-1	 1.000	1-2	.500	1   1	2   0	1   0	8
Mon 1/13 vsPHX W 98-96	 33  3-8    .375  0-2	  .000	4-4	1.000	7   1	1   0	3   2	10
Sat 1/11 @ PHI W 102-92	 24  4-9    .444  0-2	  .000	2-2	1.000	4   3	0   0	3   1	10
Thu 1/9	 vsMIA W 102-92	 42  9-13   .692  0-0	  .000	1-1	1.000	5   0	1   0	3   0	19
Tue 1/7	 vsDET W 89-85	 32  6-13   .462  1-3	  .333	0-0	.000	11  1	0   2	1   0	13
Sun 1/5	 @ DAL W 92-80	 26  6-12   .500  1-1	 1.000	0-0	.000	6   0	0   0	3   3	13
Fri 1/3	 @ HOU L 100-102 30  3-10   .300  0-3	  .000	1-2	.500	8   0	2   0	4   2	7 
Thu 1/2  @ SA  W 105-101 22  3-8    .375  0-1	  .000	4-4	1.000	3   1	1   0	2   2	10

I wonder if Phil sees anything in Bargs or if he just wants to get rid of him? I would think he might want to see if he can get thru to him and give him a role that might help him to realize his potential.

7 random games does not erase the rest of his brutally awful season or the other 6 brutally awful years he's played in the NBA.

yellowboy90 wrote:I was interested until I read Bargnarni being a diamond in the rough.

Just Bargnani? add in JR smith as well.. haha