In that 2013 offseason, guys like Al Jefferson (all-star), Paul Millsap (all-star), and Mo Williams (helluva player) were all available for FREE. Imagine where we'd be if we substituted Amare's contract with those 3; hell, even just 2 of the 3! Even during the season, teams were just hemorrhaging talent for expiring contracts. Ramon Sessions, for instance, was on a double-double-ish tear for the Bucks after he got traded and the dude was basically a salary dump. Meanwhile, Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes were traded for no-shows Danny Granger and Earl Clark respectively. Those guys couldn't have helped us make a dramatic improvement? At the very least, we'd have pieces to include in bigger trades that are materializing for players that are on the block e.g. Kevin Love. I know I'm crying over spilled milk but it seems to be worth pointing out.

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Earlier in the season, it was being reported that the Celtics were willing to trade for Amar'e on the condition that we assume Gerald Wallace's contract. The other moving parts in the deal including Courtney Lee, who had a very solid season for the Grizzlies; Kris Humphries, who is a nightly double-double threat; Keith Bogans who has a very valuable non-guaranteed contract; and Jeff Green, who has a role to play on a contender despite his inconsistencies. The talent was clearly there and if for some reason it doesn't bowl you over, the potential cap flexibility in the package should've. It was very possible that we could've lopped off as much as $12 million this offseason, which could've put us on a path to get below the tax apron and open the door to having our full MLE ($6 million/yr instead of $3 million) AND restore our ability to execute sign-and-trade deals. That's nothing to scoff at considering how desperate our situation is.

Sometimes, the most trivial of moves have a Butterfly Effect that snowballs into a much bigger, costlier mistake. Waiving Corey Brewer in 2011 was certainly a prime example of this. Without his contract on the ledger, we were unable to pool enough money to sign and trade for Tyson Chandler in that offseason. That circumstance led to us having to use our amnesty on Chancey Billups and surrender cash/multiple draft picks to send Ronny Turiaf to WAS. This in turn, forced us to keep Amar'e on our roster, which very much impeded our ability to improve the team, which will likely lead to us losing Carmelo Anthony in 2014. All this, because of Corey Brewer. So did we screw up by not moving Amar'e?

That Corey Brewer effect is interesting, but I think the proposed deal with the celtics was iffy at best, seemed like they were just feeling us out without any strong desire to make a deal.

(Probably hung up the phone when they realized we were all out of first rounders to give away.)

VCoug wrote:Sorry, but this trade is terrible unless Boston is throwing in a couple of firsts. Long term, it hurts our flexibility and our ability to sign or trade for players. Short term, Green, Wallace, Bogans, and Humphries are all various levels of terrible (seriously. Most people would consider Green the best player in that bunch and he's ****ing terrible) and it doesn't even get us below the tax apron which is half the point; Green and Wallace combined make $19M next year compared to $23M for Amare.

The only way we can get below the tax apron for next season is if we lose Melo or Amare or Tyson and Bargnani together and don't take any salary back. And the only thing that really does is save Dolan some money, not exactly a worthy cause.

I agree in the sense that the pieces back from the Celts plus our leftover roster doesn't make a championship contender. IMO the only reason to give up long term flexibility is to take a shot at a team which competes with the Spurs, Heat of the world.

VCoug wrote:Sorry, but this trade is terrible unless Boston is throwing in a couple of firsts. Long term, it hurts our flexibility and our ability to sign or trade for players. Short term, Green, Wallace, Bogans, and Humphries are all various levels of terrible (seriously. Most people would consider Green the best player in that bunch and he's ****ing terrible) and it doesn't even get us below the tax apron which is half the point; Green and Wallace combined make $19M next year compared to $23M for Amare.

The only way we can get below the tax apron for next season is if we lose Melo or Amare or Tyson and Bargnani together and don't take any salary back. And the only thing that really does is save Dolan some money, not exactly a worthy cause.

If we traded Amare for Humphries and Wallace, we would've been saving $12 million off of Humphries expiring deal. Our payroll would be at $79 million this offseason after Humphries came off the books. The tax apron would be at approximately $79 million, now that the cap is increasing by $5 million. Why would something like this be a bad move? Hell, with Humphries' contract, we could've gotten Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes, if we weren't interested in the cap flexibility? And what did we sacrifice that opportunity for? Gerald Wallace's contract expires in 2016 and it's not like his $10 million/yr deal would've impeded our 2015 plans by much. If it did, we could always use the stretch provision, which would reduce his cap hold by two-thirds.

If we were looking to get far enough below the apron during the 2013 offseason, we could've made the deal for just Wallace and Keith Bogans, which would've left us with a $5 million trade exception and put us about $11 million below the tax apron. That would've been enough to sign and trade for both Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, without precipitating a hard cap. How would that kind of flexibility be a bad thing?

smackeddog wrote:Let's trade the deadweight for more deadweight with longer contracts

Correction: Kris Humphries and/or Keith Bogans were expiring contract. Gerald Wallace is the only bad contract that would've been involved and he'd only be on the books until 2016.

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:Sorry, but this trade is terrible unless Boston is throwing in a couple of firsts. Long term, it hurts our flexibility and our ability to sign or trade for players. Short term, Green, Wallace, Bogans, and Humphries are all various levels of terrible (seriously. Most people would consider Green the best player in that bunch and he's ****ing terrible) and it doesn't even get us below the tax apron which is half the point; Green and Wallace combined make $19M next year compared to $23M for Amare.

The only way we can get below the tax apron for next season is if we lose Melo or Amare or Tyson and Bargnani together and don't take any salary back. And the only thing that really does is save Dolan some money, not exactly a worthy cause.

If we traded Amare for Humphries and Wallace, we would've been saving $12 million off of Humphries expiring deal. Our payroll would be at $79 million this offseason after Humphries came off the books. The tax apron would be at approximately $79 million, now that the cap is increasing by $5 million. Why would something like this be a bad move? Hell, with Humphries' contract, we could've gotten Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes, if we weren't interested in the cap flexibility? And what did we sacrifice that opportunity for? Gerald Wallace's contract expires in 2016 and it's not like his $10 million/yr deal would've impeded our 2015 plans by much. If it did, we could always use the stretch provision, which would reduce his cap hold by two-thirds.

If we were looking to get far enough below the apron during the 2013 offseason, we could've made the deal for just Wallace and Keith Bogans, which would've left us with a $5 million trade exception and put us about $11 million below the tax apron. That would've been enough to sign and trade for both Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, without precipitating a hard cap. How would that kind of flexibility be a bad thing?

Well, you had included Green so I included him in the salary. Even so, who are we targeting with the full MLE? And what's the plan past 2015? If we do this deal it's with the expectation that we're resigning Melo. So, after next season we've probably got Melo at $20M, Gerald Wallace and the MLE at $16M, $15M between JR, Felton, Shump, and THJr, and a few million for our 2015 draft pick (assuming we don't trade him). Unless we're winning the lottery and drafting a franchise changing talent that team is ****ed.

VCoug wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

VCoug wrote:Sorry, but this trade is terrible unless Boston is throwing in a couple of firsts. Long term, it hurts our flexibility and our ability to sign or trade for players. Short term, Green, Wallace, Bogans, and Humphries are all various levels of terrible (seriously. Most people would consider Green the best player in that bunch and he's ****ing terrible) and it doesn't even get us below the tax apron which is half the point; Green and Wallace combined make $19M next year compared to $23M for Amare.

The only way we can get below the tax apron for next season is if we lose Melo or Amare or Tyson and Bargnani together and don't take any salary back. And the only thing that really does is save Dolan some money, not exactly a worthy cause.

If we traded Amare for Humphries and Wallace, we would've been saving $12 million off of Humphries expiring deal. Our payroll would be at $79 million this offseason after Humphries came off the books. The tax apron would be at approximately $79 million, now that the cap is increasing by $5 million. Why would something like this be a bad move? Hell, with Humphries' contract, we could've gotten Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes, if we weren't interested in the cap flexibility? And what did we sacrifice that opportunity for? Gerald Wallace's contract expires in 2016 and it's not like his $10 million/yr deal would've impeded our 2015 plans by much. If it did, we could always use the stretch provision, which would reduce his cap hold by two-thirds.

If we were looking to get far enough below the apron during the 2013 offseason, we could've made the deal for just Wallace and Keith Bogans, which would've left us with a $5 million trade exception and put us about $11 million below the tax apron. That would've been enough to sign and trade for both Paul Millsap and Mo Williams, without precipitating a hard cap. How would that kind of flexibility be a bad thing?

Well, you had included Green so I included him in the salary. Even so, who are we targeting with the full MLE? And what's the plan past 2015? If we do this deal it's with the expectation that we're resigning Melo. So, after next season we've probably got Melo at $20M, Gerald Wallace and the MLE at $16M, $15M between JR, Felton, Shump, and THJr, and a few million for our 2015 draft pick (assuming we don't trade him). Unless we're winning the lottery and drafting a franchise changing talent that team is ****ed.

I included Green because he was one of several players that were rumored to be paired with Wallace's contract in the deal. I personally think he has talent but I'm not a fan of it at $9 million/yr. I would've pressed the Celtics for one of two deals: (1) Amare for Wallace and Humphries or (2) Amare for Wallace, Bogans and possibly Lee. Either deal would've given us a ticket to dropping $10 million from our payroll in the immediate future and given us an opportunity to perform a sign and trade. It mattered more in 2013, when there were a bunch of capable players changing teams and Melo's future in question. To be honest though, I think it would've been a big help even in this offseason. I don't know what we should do with the full MLE and sign-and-trade at our disposal but I prefer to have the option than not to have it. And we'd still have anywhere between $13-$22 million (depending on the cap and if we use the stretch provision) to spend in 2015.