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am I correct in assuming we can't s+t melo
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BRIGGS
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4/23/2014  8:25 PM
As we are over the cap? So no matter what its all or nothing?
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babyKnicks
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4/23/2014  8:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/23/2014  8:32 PM
I believe that is incorrect. As long as the salaries match. But I could definitely be wrong.
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PresIke
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4/23/2014  8:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/23/2014  8:34 PM
we can send him to a team below the cap in an sign and trade, but we cannot receive a player that is signed and traded to us because we are over the cap.

actually, i think it applies to teams over the luxury threshold, not being over the cap (we are above it from what i understand).

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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4/23/2014  8:36 PM
here it is BRIGGS:

http://www.libertyballers.com/2013/7/2/4485996/sign-and-trades-under-the-new-cba-and-how-they-affect-andrew-bynum

Teams more than $4 million above the luxury tax cannot receive players in a sign and trade deal. If a team acquires a player in a sign and trade deal, then the team cannot go $4 million or more above the luxury tax for the remainder of the salary cap year. There were previously no restrictions.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
VCoug
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4/23/2014  9:31 PM
We can send our own free agents out in a sign-and-trade and receive players in return. What we can't do is receive other team's free agents in a sign-and-trade unless we cut somewhere around $15M to $20M.
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knicks1248
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4/23/2014  9:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/23/2014  9:42 PM
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

ES
EnySpree
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4/23/2014  9:47 PM
VCoug wrote:We can send our own free agents out in a sign-and-trade and receive players in return. What we can't do is receive other team's free agents in a sign-and-trade unless we cut somewhere around $15M to $20M.

This is correct as it goes for our Knicks.

Melo to Houston or the Bulls If It Comes down to it

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yellowboy90
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4/23/2014  10:27 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

gunsnewing
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4/23/2014  10:35 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

I hope you are wrong. You can't tweak a turd. This scenario would be a major letdown for me

dk7th
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4/23/2014  10:40 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

where on earth are you getting this inference?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Bonn1997
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4/23/2014  11:54 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!


If it takes a pay cut?! What exactly is the uncertainty? He's really not sure if it matters if he takes up $30 vs. 15 mil of the cap per year?
mreinman
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4/23/2014  11:59 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!


If it takes a pay cut?! What exactly is the uncertainty? He's really not sure if it matters if he takes up $30 vs. 15 mil of the cap per year?

Hey Bonn,

Have you seen a stat that tracks passes and assist opportunities per touches?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
gunsnewing
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4/23/2014  11:59 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!


If it takes a pay cut?! What exactly is the uncertainty? He's really not sure if it matters if he takes up $30 vs. 15 mil of the cap per year?

Carmelo Anthony for President!!!

dk7th
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4/24/2014  12:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/24/2014  12:08 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

wow this guy carmelo is so oblivious. "take my money" smdh at this tool. it's statements like this that makes me hopeful that jackson is not going to tolerate this level of stupidity or cupidity. i really hope we can kiss his azz goodbye and forget he was ever a knick. "if [melo being here] is not in the cards then we are fortunate."

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
gunsnewing
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4/24/2014  12:05 AM
All that matters is that Phil realizes that nba teams operate under a cap. Whether Melo and his camp realizes that or not is irrelevant
yellowboy90
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4/24/2014  12:31 AM
dk7th wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

where on earth are you getting this inference?

I don't remember which article but Jackson comments about personnel changes to last year's team and this year team and him continue to say he wants to put better pieces around Melo.

newyorknewyork
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4/24/2014  6:04 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

where on earth are you getting this inference?

I don't remember which article but Jackson comments about personnel changes to last year's team and this year team and him continue to say he wants to put better pieces around Melo.

If they install the triangle and are able to bring Gasol in the offseason and upgrade the PG play somehow(probably moving Tyson) I could see them becoming a 45 win team or something like that.

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fishmike
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4/24/2014  7:06 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

where on earth are you getting this inference?

I don't remember which article but Jackson comments about personnel changes to last year's team and this year team and him continue to say he wants to put better pieces around Melo.

If they install the triangle and are able to bring Gasol in the offseason and upgrade the PG play somehow(probably moving Tyson) I could see them becoming a 45 win team or something like that.

so they upgrade their biggest holes and are still 10 wins short of last year's total?
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knicks1248
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4/24/2014  9:08 AM
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
"Any opportunity I have to build that up in New York, I'd do it," Anthony said. "I told people all the time, always say, if it takes me taking a pay cut, I'll be the first one on [Knicks owner] Mr. [James] Dolan's steps saying take my money, and let's build something strong over here."

what more is there to say..lets do it!!

Piecing everything Jackson said his pitch to Melo seems to be: Just like a few tweaks turned a 54 win team into a 30+ win team, I'll make a few tweaks and trades to get the Knicks back to that level this summer. Then when the salary frees up make another step/

where on earth are you getting this inference?

I don't remember which article but Jackson comments about personnel changes to last year's team and this year team and him continue to say he wants to put better pieces around Melo.

If they install the triangle and are able to bring Gasol in the offseason and upgrade the PG play somehow(probably moving Tyson) I could see them becoming a 45 win team or something like that.

so they upgrade their biggest holes and are still 10 wins short of last year's total?

Do you really think our drop off was mainly because of talent ?

ES
Finestrg
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4/25/2014  10:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/25/2014  11:32 AM
Just looking for a definitive answer on this and came across this recent ESPN article by Ian Begley:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/56193/does-new-cap-make-it-easier-for-melo-to-go?ex_cid=espnapi_public

Key things to take away from this article:

(1) Yes, we can do a sign & trade.

(2) In fact, it will be easier for us when they raise the cap by $5mm -- the team receiving the player [Melo] must not be over the salary "apron" which will now be increased from $76mm to $81mm. Per Begley:

"...it makes it easier for New York to execute a sign-and-trade involving Anthony. In order to complete a sign-and-trade, teams that receive Anthony in a sign-and-trade need to be under the salary "apron" following the trade. If the new projections hold, it means the apron will increase to $81 million. So the extra $5 million of space makes the sign-and-trade easier to execute."

"That means teams such as the Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls have an easier chance to acquire Anthony via a sign-and-trade."

(3) Other teams can also offer Melo $5mm more than the old rate, w/o a S&T -- making it look a little more appealing for FAs to just up & leave their current team for another team--more lucrative then when Dwight Howard left the Lakers to sign with the Rockets for example. HOWEVER, NY can still offer the most by a wide margin, significantly more than other teams. Still puts us in the driver's seat if max money or close to it turns out to be a top concern for Melo (even if Melo does leave, I highly doubt the man would want to leave us high and dry, holding our wanks...If he comes to the conclusion that his future lies elsewhere, I think he'd sleep a little better knowing NY got compensated for his leaving -- I'd like to see him openly work with the Knicks and his next team in getting what everyone wants. He will have a lot of say in the matter. His agent will have to convey the following: he wants more money and doesn't want the Knicks to get burned...He would satisfy these two important conditions if he left via S&T over just signing somewhere else).

-------------------------------------

The whole thing will work so much smoother if they can broker a S&T -- you would think teams like Chicago and Houston would have a much tougher time first clearing all the cap room somehow and then signing Melo -- a S&T allows the team that wants Melo to take care of everything in one neat package. A lot less headache...Thinking about it -- how would these teams clear out that much cap room w/o taking back salary in return (Chicago and Houston are both over the cap next year)? I suppose it could be done -- you'd need to find a few teams under the cap that are willing to take on a few of their higher-salary players...Otherwise, they'd have no chance -- even if they brought in a bunch of expiring contracts, they'd still have to wait a year for them to expire and they would've missed out. Melo's opting out and will be a FA this summer. 100% guaranteed. The man's not playing one more year on the current contract. Way too much of a gamble on his part. Ridiculous to even think that he'd entertain doing that...In a S&T, you clear out the salary as you're importing Melo -- one replaces the other simultaneously. S&T is still the option that's in everyone's best interest I feel..

Again, IF he's leaving. I said right from the get-go, I could go either way on this. 50/50 -- part of me thinks he's a star that's already here, still very productive and pretty much in his prime. Then part of me feels like he may be on the downside physically (2 bum shoulders generates a ton of pause) and max money, even slightly less, might turn out to be a poor investment in the long run. Getting compensated in a S&T and starting over might be our best move here, all considered...Just gotta be smart with what we take back -- ABSOLUTELY NO BAD CONTRACTS for marginal players. We need expiring contracts, picks and/or low salary/high upside players in return. If it turns out we have to take on salary for players that don't cut it, I'd rather let him walk. Manage the cap properly -- I'd only contemplate taking on salary if the player is young with significant upside and has shown at some point that they can play big at the NBA level. Even then, we need to proceed with great caution and carefully consider whether it'll be in our best interest or not.

am I correct in assuming we can't s+t melo

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