jrodmc wrote:tkf - I know this must have been asked before, but do you and dktf live near each other? Or work for the same company?

And New York was missing a few starters too. Does that work for us?

what starters are we missing?

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?

Well now (unlike before) you're at least talking about what happened after the Melo trade. You've at least got the timing correct this time. You're glorifying mediocrity, though. You only have to be roughly a top 20 NBA team to make the playoffs in the east. You can have a player who helps the team but still acquire him in a bad deal if the player doesn't help the team as much as someone you're giving up guys on rookie contracts, future picks, and 40% of your total cap space for should help the team.

Not in the playoffs. In the playoffs. I'm not glorifying anything, I'm defining "winning" as "making the playoffs" and "losing" as being in the lottery. It's not really that difficult. Your rookies haven't done anything great, our record with picks is legendarily abominable (Fred Weiss says HI!) and Lebron didn't want our cap space. And KD ain't coming here, either.

Maybe the thread should be re-titled "Was Carmelo a Wash for Denver?".

And then moved to the Off-Topic forum.

And then locked.

you are not demonstrating a realistic grasp of the nba playoffs.

1) the league is a bloated mess with a terrible dilution of talent.
2) over half the teams make the playoffs, which means mediocrity is rewarded.
3) making the first round of the playoffs, what you call "making the playoffs," is meaningless unless you are a top 3 or top 4 team in either conference.
4) and this year it has been shown how poorly represented the playoffs are, where phoenix would be a third seed in the eastern conference.

carmelo anthony is a great junior varsity player and that's really all he is. his record in the playoffs, his role on the olympic team, his failures in nyc all add up to that one fact, the arguments about if he is really a max player and a franchise player etc. etc.

Knixkik wrote:We still won the trade all things considered, had some opportunities in the playoffs to make some noise that we might not have had otherwise. A healthy Amare and the whole situation changes and we aren't talking about whether we won or lost the trade. But it didn't work out with this crew, it is what it is.

Bonn's point that both teams lost is very interesting thought and I never looked at it like that.

TeamBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We still won the trade all things considered, had some opportunities in the playoffs to make some noise that we might not have had otherwise. A healthy Amare and the whole situation changes and we aren't talking about whether we won or lost the trade. But it didn't work out with this crew, it is what it is.

I'd say both teams won because both teams got what they wanted.

Bonn's point that both teams lost is very interesting thought and I never looked at it like that.

Can't say both teams won or both teams lost at this point. It has not played out in full.

mreinman wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We still won the trade all things considered, had some opportunities in the playoffs to make some noise that we might not have had otherwise. A healthy Amare and the whole situation changes and we aren't talking about whether we won or lost the trade. But it didn't work out with this crew, it is what it is.

I'd say both teams won because both teams got what they wanted.

Bonn's point that both teams lost is very interesting thought and I never looked at it like that.

Can't say both teams won or both teams lost at this point. It has not played out in full.

Yes that is 100% true. A lot depends on what happens with Melo, with our cap space in 2015, etc. I believe Denver has lost to this point however because i don't think they have got what they were looking for out of their players they received and that franchise has not grown. But still too early to tell for both teams.

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We still won the trade all things considered, had some opportunities in the playoffs to make some noise that we might not have had otherwise. A healthy Amare and the whole situation changes and we aren't talking about whether we won or lost the trade. But it didn't work out with this crew, it is what it is.

I'd say both teams won because both teams got what they wanted.

Bonn's point that both teams lost is very interesting thought and I never looked at it like that.

Can't say both teams won or both teams lost at this point. It has not played out in full.

Yes that is 100% true. A lot depends on what happens with Melo, with our cap space in 2015, etc. I believe Denver has lost to this point however because i don't think they have got what they were looking for out of their players they received and that franchise has not grown. But still too early to tell for both teams.

TeamBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We still won the trade all things considered, had some opportunities in the playoffs to make some noise that we might not have had otherwise. A healthy Amare and the whole situation changes and we aren't talking about whether we won or lost the trade. But it didn't work out with this crew, it is what it is.

I'd say both teams won because both teams got what they wanted.

Bonn's point that both teams lost is very interesting thought and I never looked at it like that.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We still won the trade all things considered, had some opportunities in the playoffs to make some noise that we might not have had otherwise. A healthy Amare and the whole situation changes and we aren't talking about whether we won or lost the trade. But it didn't work out with this crew, it is what it is.

I'd say both teams won because both teams got what they wanted.

Bonn's point that both teams lost is very interesting thought and I never looked at it like that.

Can't say both teams won or both teams lost at this point. It has not played out in full.

Yes that is 100% true. A lot depends on what happens with Melo, with our cap space in 2015, etc. I believe Denver has lost to this point however because i don't think they have got what they were looking for out of their players they received and that franchise has not grown. But still too early to tell for both teams.

Well we certainly haven't grown either. If we can point to 2015, certainly they can point to how the lottery pick we hand them develops. It's a bit far-fetched though to say that the critical assessment of whether our trade for Melo in the 2010-11 season was worthwhile depends on who we sign in 2015. I'm sure that if we hadn't traded for Melo, we would have had the opportunity to sign valuable free agents between 2011 and 2015 anyway.

We could have grown if our management walsh, grunwald, all of them did not do such a lousy job. If we amnestied Amare (or NEVER SIGNED HIM) and did not sign Tyson, did not sign FELTON, Camby, did not trade for bargs and did not do many things that we did, we could still have build a strong team with Melo even if we gave up too much (which really all comes down to our #1 pick this year - which is huge).

If we kept Gallo and Wilson and resigned them, we would have lost as well since we would have lost players who don't play too much and we would have paid way more than they were worth. The question is, could we have traded them for a better package? Maybe ... too many maybe's.

I still believe it gets decided in the next year or two. If they draft another Noah and Melo is in chicago playing with Noah, boy that would suck swag balls!

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:It's amazing. Results are defined as getting out of the "junior varsity" regular season.

Player A is on Team D. Team D makes the playoffs every year.
Team K hasn't smelled the playoffs in nearly a decade.
Player A goes to Team K, Team K is now in the playoffs each year.
How is the trade of Player A a wash for Team K?

Why is this so difficult? Why was Team K suddenly in the playoffs every year? Was it the superb coaching? Brilliant management and ownership? Was it the sudden influx of fabulous talent around Player A? Was it the MSG facade upgrade? Was it part of a league conspiracy in the Eastern conference?

Well now (unlike before) you're at least talking about what happened after the Melo trade. You've at least got the timing correct this time. You're glorifying mediocrity, though. You only have to be roughly a top 20 NBA team to make the playoffs in the east. You can have a player who helps the team but still acquire him in a bad deal if the player doesn't help the team as much as someone you're giving up guys on rookie contracts, future picks, and 40% of your total cap space for should help the team.

Curious to have seen the outcome of the trade if we did not sign Amare the year before or amnesty CB/Sign Tyson the year after.

And, that we would have actually surrounded the trade with good moves / signings and tried to build a tight couple cohesive unit with Melo somewhere in the mix.

Not saying that I would still make the move or that it was a good signings but its hard to judge in a vacuum.

what would you have done the summer of 2010 instead of what walsh did? bear in mind walsh was working for dolan and the knicks had just finished up two years of roster flush. dolan and the fanbase are notorious starphuckers.

I would have quit or never have taken a job for Dolan. You take the job then its on you.

For starters, I would not sign a cripple to a contract when nobody else makes him an offer (other than his home team at 60%). A guy who insurance companies left on the side of the road.

It does not matter what I do. I do not play GM or get paid big money to not phuck up. I don't come up with fantasy trade scenarios or capology moves.

And Grunwald just did every wrong move. Dolan told him to? Not my problem because I am not the GM who takes the blame.