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joe dumars' biggest blunder?
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Bonn1997
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6/12/2004  3:02 AM
Posted by kam77:

Win two more games and Darko will own more rings than Carmelo.
He'll also own more rings than Patrick Ewing. I guess that means he's already a better center than Ewing ever was
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timmyTtop
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6/12/2004  12:51 PM
melo is so much better, they'd have the full culmination of offense and defense
tkf
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6/12/2004  1:15 PM
again, the fact that detroit is in the finals has nothing to do with Dumars blunder, especially since Darko has contributed nothing to the team.... Picking Darko over melo is a blunder...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bobby
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6/12/2004  4:47 PM
........you must mean after the fact Detroit is to the finals the play on words are trickled down especially when Joe was taking the heat during the regular season. What ever gave anyone the idea that Dumars had to pick Melo over Darko...period
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bobby
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6/12/2004  7:33 PM
Some of the people will always believe Melo should’ve been selected over Darko without any regards to Prince. And then there are opposing views such as Marc Stein, [ also, see my page 2 comments of this thread ] that feels what Dumars did was the right thing.

And the right thing is also giving us a good series to watch. Additional reading at

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1819732


By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Male of the Night
Tayshaun Prince. When Kobe Bryant is held to 13 points, under any circumstances, the primary Kobe defender has to get serious props. Hence our selection of Prince over the 50-point backcourt combo of Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. Bryant couldn't even get to the line against Prince, attempting only three free throws and prompting Phil Jackson to soberly point out that Detroit has earned nearly twice as many trips to the line in the series. The free-throw count is 91-56 in the Pistons' favor, and Jackson -- while naturally frustrated with some of the officiating -- concedes that the disparity is a reflection of the teams' respective aggressiveness.
E-Mail of the Night
You are still wrong about Joe Dumars being the Executive of the Year. You cannot be the Executive of the Year when you pass on a guy who will be one of the five best players in the league for the next 10 years. I don't care if the Pistons shock the Lakers. Passing on Carmelo Anthony disqualifies Dumars for any award.
Z. Montoya
Denver, Colo.
STEIN: On your ballot, maybe. Not on mine. The draft decision made sense for the Pistons even if they go on to lose these Finals. But since they're winning the series, your Bash Joe timing couldn't be worse. Darko Milicic and Carlos Delfino will have to fall well short of projections to convince me.

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
tkf
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6/12/2004  8:20 PM
Again, the picks should have been melo, if dumars wants to waste a #2 overall pick and justify it by saying they made the finals, then he is only fooling himself and the few gullable people who belive that darko was the better pick....Because he is a "european prospect"..LOL
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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6/12/2004  10:02 PM
Posted by Bobby:

Some of the people will always believe Melo should’ve been selected over Darko without any regards to Prince. And then there are opposing views such as Marc Stein, [ also, see my page 2 comments of this thread ] that feels what Dumars did was the right thing.

And the right thing is also giving us a good series to watch. Additional reading at

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1819732


By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Male of the Night
Tayshaun Prince. When Kobe Bryant is held to 13 points, under any circumstances, the primary Kobe defender has to get serious props. Hence our selection of Prince over the 50-point backcourt combo of Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. Bryant couldn't even get to the line against Prince, attempting only three free throws and prompting Phil Jackson to soberly point out that Detroit has earned nearly twice as many trips to the line in the series. The free-throw count is 91-56 in the Pistons' favor, and Jackson -- while naturally frustrated with some of the officiating -- concedes that the disparity is a reflection of the teams' respective aggressiveness.
E-Mail of the Night
You are still wrong about Joe Dumars being the Executive of the Year. You cannot be the Executive of the Year when you pass on a guy who will be one of the five best players in the league for the next 10 years. I don't care if the Pistons shock the Lakers. Passing on Carmelo Anthony disqualifies Dumars for any award.
Z. Montoya
Denver, Colo.
STEIN: On your ballot, maybe. Not on mine. The draft decision made sense for the Pistons even if they go on to lose these Finals. But since they're winning the series, your Bash Joe timing couldn't be worse. Darko Milicic and Carlos Delfino will have to fall well short of projections to convince me.

marc stein and chad ford do nothing but HYPE the hell out of euro players. this one reminds them of nowitski, that one reminds them of a young sabonis, yada yada yada.
Nalod
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6/12/2004  10:10 PM
Some teams draft according to need. Darko is a bonafide prospect. They don't need Melo, they need a prospective 7 foot player to develope.

Melo is an immature offensive player whom doe not execute the intangable plays that tayshaun does. I think with Melo they would not have gone as far this year. Thus, no melo is ok. This draft thing will take 4 years to sort out when we see what kind of player Darko turns into.
Bobby
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6/12/2004  11:22 PM
Some people will never get it, but then again you could always live with draft picks R us at the end of the season while disappointing your fans during the real season. First Chauncy Billups, then Rip “loose” Hamiliton, now straight out of Compton with Prince of the Palace. Now get this:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/2623331

There's no doubt Pistons made right call with Prince
By JOHN LOPEZ
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. — Tayshaun Prince arrived at the arena driving your basic white midsize SUV. Nothing fancy.
He stepped across the loading dock into the arena, wearing jeans, a T-shirt and a ball cap turned backward, saying hello to arena workers along the way. No hoopla.
If anyone personifies the image the Detroit Pistons have worked hard to craft — from the unselfish quotes we've read throughout the NBA Finals to the male cheerleaders wearing pit crew-styled uniforms and virtually faceless, nameless players coming at the Lakers — it is Prince. He grew up in Compton, Calif., where life is hard, and then went to NCAA powerhouse Kentucky, where he decided to play for four seasons and earn a college degree despite NBA temptations tugging at him, if you can imagine that in these times of instant gratification. Last season as a Pistons rookie, he mostly sat and watched. He bided time. No one was calling Prince a superstar when he averaged just 3.3 points while playing in barely half of the Pistons' 2002-03 regular-season games. Instead, they were calling for Carmelo Anthony, a real star. With the second pick in last year's NBA lottery, it was the kind of decision that nearly everyone considered to be a no-brainer for team president Joe Dumars and then-new head coach Larry Brown. After certain No. 1 pick LeBron James, Anthony would be ripe for the picking, probably locking up prospects for a deep Pistons run through the 2004 playoffs. That run has arrived, of course. But amazingly, even now as the Pistons are within two victories of winning the NBA championship, the Carmelo question hovers over the organization. Just imagine if Anthony, who dropped to Denver when the Pistons instead drafted prospect Darko Milicic of Serbia-Montenegro, was on this team. Imagine having a weapon like that, a star like that, to go with Richard Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace. Even when rings and the Larry O'Brien Trophy are perhaps days away, some still just don't get it.
Star power doesn't always arrive in tricked-up Escalades with flashy rims on the wheels. Star power doesn't always have a booming sound system, tailored suits and dozens of nicknames, like LA's Shaquille O'Neal, or a team of bodyguards, like Kobe Bryant.
The glitz and glitter of Prince rising to NBA stardom has been the result. No player on either roster has done more to affect the outcome than Prince. None has done it so anonymously in comparison to the NBA Finals' biggest names, either. Jeans and a T-shirt. It fits him. So does stardom. This series of the Pistons outperforming O'Neal, Bryant and all the Tinseltown glitter has done nothing if not confirm that the Wallaces — Rasheed and Ben — are among the elite while boosting the star value of Hamilton and Billups.
But what of Prince? Lakes coach Phil Jackson was asked about defining star qualities. He defined everything Prince has done, without mentioning his name. "The things that make a great player, doing all of the tasks, boxing out, moving the basketball, playing inside a team offense, playing defense the correct way," Jackson said. "Moving the ball if you're double-teamed. All of those things still have to be performed if you're going to be a superstar."
To recap what we have seen, then: Kobe has made one great shot in Game 2 but been frustrated and stopped twice. By Prince. O'Neal has put up good numbers but fallen into foul trouble and gone through long stretches without touching the ball. Gary Payton has pouted, Karl Malone has limped.
Hamilton has taken on a hero's role offensively. The Wallaces have done what they do best. Billups has played the best basketball of his life.
Prince has only done a little bit of everything. At times, he reminds you of former 76ers star Bobby Jones with the way he defends, hustles and always puts himself in the right spot. Other times, he looks like Clyde Drexler finishing a break, Reggie Miller with that unorthodox release on the 3-pointer or former Spurs great George Gervin slicing through the lane and flicking up a baby hook with those long arms.
Without Prince, who knows if the Pistons would even be here, now, on the threshold of staking a place among the league's greatest teams. He was the lone constant in a tough opening-round series against the Bucks and always has drawn the toughest defensive assignments — Richard Jefferson, Ron Artest, sometimes Miller.
And when the NBA East title was hanging in the balance against Indiana, he was the one player chasing down Miller on a breakaway, soaring into view in the last moment and blocking a layup that in essence clinched the series.
Could anyone else have made that play? Could anyone else be inside Bryant's head like Prince is now?

It all goes back to the vote of confidence Dumars gave him before last season's draft, calling Prince and telling him, "You're our guy." "I know some people still talk about Carmelo," Prince said. "There's nothing you can do about that. You just go out and play. (Dumars) showed confidence in me, and I've taken that and tried to prove him right."

He has.

WOW!
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bonn1997
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6/13/2004  1:28 AM
Posted by timmyTtop:

melo is so much better, they'd have the full culmination of offense and defense

But they already get good defense and at least five points a game from Prince!
Nalod
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6/13/2004  11:22 AM
good article. The masses usually see the obvious. Tayshaun is a different type of player. Melo gets plenty of hype, and he starts on a NBA team, makes millions, is on TV, and yet he sounds so so sad that he is being passed over for so many things. Things he has yet to earn.

I finally figured what it is about the Pistons I like, they are the ANTI STAR PHUCHERS!
Bobby
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6/16/2004  12:10 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

as each game comes and goes in the detroit/nets series, do you think not drafting carmelo anthony is going to come back and haunt him like when the blazers passed on jordan?

verdict is definitely out and we'll have to wait 3 or so years to know for sure but...the main reason he didn't take melo, as dumars said, is tayshaun prince. but detroit does not have a player that can get you a basket when you need it. and carmelo fits that bill and tayshaun, true to form, is mr. 1st round and mr. invisible in the 2nd.

this is nothing new, but even the gm's that some people think can do no wrong, can make decisions that make a team into a perennial nba champion or a perennial nba 2nd rounder.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05/13/2004 17:29:21]

so much who fits the bill...How do think Tayshaun's ring fits
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Nalod
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6/16/2004  2:00 PM


Blunder?? Where is the blunder? Joey D. messed up so bad they freaking won the NBA championship and are No. Freaking 1!

Fantasy teams win on stat's, but in the real world its a bound unit that wins the GOLD.

tkf
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6/16/2004  3:22 PM
Posted by Nalod:



Blunder?? Where is the blunder? Joey D. messed up so bad they freaking won the NBA championship and are No. Freaking 1!

Fantasy teams win on stat's, but in the real world its a bound unit that wins the GOLD.

You don't get it, down the road when melo has his team constantly in the running and darko is struggling to tie his shoes, you will understand, It was not so much about this year man..Darko didn't contribute at all this year, it is about maintaning the winning. Great for detroit, they caught a beat up lakers team and won, come next year, if sheed is gone, lets hope they can lean on MR.Darko then....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
martin
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6/16/2004  3:41 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Nalod:



Blunder?? Where is the blunder? Joey D. messed up so bad they freaking won the NBA championship and are No. Freaking 1!

Fantasy teams win on stat's, but in the real world its a bound unit that wins the GOLD.

You don't get it, down the road when melo has his team constantly in the running and darko is struggling to tie his shoes, you will understand, It was not so much about this year man..Darko didn't contribute at all this year, it is about maintaning the winning. Great for detroit, they caught a beat up lakers team and won, come next year, if sheed is gone, lets hope they can lean on MR.Darko then....

TKF, seriously, how much of Darko have you seen that would lead you to believe that Darko is not chop full of potential? Let me know your background with 18 year old big men too. Wow.
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tkf
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6/16/2004  6:24 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Nalod:



Blunder?? Where is the blunder? Joey D. messed up so bad they freaking won the NBA championship and are No. Freaking 1!

Fantasy teams win on stat's, but in the real world its a bound unit that wins the GOLD.

You don't get it, down the road when melo has his team constantly in the running and darko is struggling to tie his shoes, you will understand, It was not so much about this year man..Darko didn't contribute at all this year, it is about maintaning the winning. Great for detroit, they caught a beat up lakers team and won, come next year, if sheed is gone, lets hope they can lean on MR.Darko then....

TKF, seriously, how much of Darko have you seen that would lead you to believe that Darko is not chop full of potential? Let me know your background with 18 year old big men too. Wow.

first of all Darko is closer to 20, and I don't need to know a thing about him except that he is a project taken with the second overall pick, what I do know is that the great larry brown wanted melo, that is good enough for me and what I also know is that melo a rookie averaged near 20ppg, if you think that darko is going to be great and he hasn't played a lick, then how great is melo going to be after averaging 20ppg in his rookie year.... And don't hand me this age crap, carmelo is what 19 or 20?

That is what I know..

Now tell me how extensive your knowledge is dealing with 19 year old euro projects that can't get any minutes?

WOW!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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6/16/2004  11:42 PM
Darko is still 18!

The pistons won the championship. That is the ultimate. Melo might crash and burn, so might Darko. Its useless to project far into the future and say what Darko might do. Its a big mans game, and darko is a big man.

Melo got Big Dogg written all over him if one must project into the future. Melo got minutes in Denver he never would have gotten in Detroit. WOuld have been a nice story to win the NCAA and the NBA back to back.

No blunder on joes part. Just a different path that has yet to yield the desirable result.
tkf
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6/17/2004  12:30 AM
ok darko is still 18 for the next 2 days until he turns 19... whoopee.. the point is this, 5 years down the road when the pistons have changed personnel and will be looking for the player to lead that team into the future, why take a chance on such a project when you have a player like melo who was a winner on the college level and basically as sure of a thing as lebron.. People always look back at drafts and say, man had we picked the right guy we could be competing now.. the pistons had a sure thing in melo.... To even compare him to big dog is a joke and a lack of any basketball sense, right now melo is a more productive player than big dog... Call it what you want but I can assure you if Dumars is the GM in 3 years from now, when the champainge has worn off of this win, he will regret the pick...

I am done with this topic...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
raven
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6/17/2004  3:08 AM
the pistons didn't any more tool to win. Down the road in a few yrs, they will. What's the matter if darko takes time to developp ? He isn't needed right now.

Where you see a blunder, I see wisdom to build for the future.

Unless your name is Jordan, titles are won in the paint. that's were darko belongs.
Bobby
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6/17/2004  9:08 PM
Call it what you want but I can assure you if Dumars is the GM in 3 years from now, when the champainge has worn off of this win, he will regret the pick...

.....and Dumars regreted letting Hill walk, traded Stack for Rip,
and of course, passing Melo just so he could produce a championship.

BTW.....Brown may also regret not having AI, can't you tell
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
joe dumars' biggest blunder?

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