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joe dumars' biggest blunder?
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djsunyc
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5/13/2004  5:28 PM
as each game comes and goes in the detroit/nets series, do you think not drafting carmelo anthony is going to come back and haunt him like when the blazers passed on jordan?

verdict is definitely out and we'll have to wait 3 or so years to know for sure but...the main reason he didn't take melo, as dumars said, is tayshaun prince. but detroit does not have a player that can get you a basket when you need it. and carmelo fits that bill and tayshaun, true to form, is mr. 1st round and mr. invisible in the 2nd.

this is nothing new, but even the gm's that some people think can do no wrong, can make decisions that make a team into a perennial nba champion or a perennial nba 2nd rounder.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05/13/2004 17:29:21]
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BigSm00th
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5/13/2004  5:44 PM
Darko is so young that it's too early to tell.

In 3 years if he's the only big man in the East and he's progressed they'll still be scary.

Why is Tayshaun Prince Mr. First Round and mr. Invisible in the 2nd round, this is his 2nd NBA season. Let's wait a little while here before we go proclaiming his inability to play in...not the Finals, not the Conf. Finals, but the 2nd round. Let's get serious.
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djsunyc
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5/13/2004  5:52 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

Darko is so young that it's too early to tell.

In 3 years if he's the only big man in the East and he's progressed they'll still be scary.

Why is Tayshaun Prince Mr. First Round and mr. Invisible in the 2nd round, this is his 2nd NBA season. Let's wait a little while here before we go proclaiming his inability to play in...not the Finals, not the Conf. Finals, but the 2nd round. Let's get serious.

you're right, tayshaun is only in his 2nd season.

but it's pretty uncanny how he's done the same thing two years in a row. plays ok during the regular season. steps up in the 1st round, and then completely disappears in the 2nd (barring game 1). it could just be rj's defense.

i'm not a tayshaun prince fan but he could be a nice piece on the right team. detroit is NOT that team. they need scorers that will make and take the big shots when they need it. they needed a player like melo in the worst way. EVERYBODY, and i mean EVERYBODY thought that melo would've been the PERFECT fit in detroit but b/c of tayshaun's post season performance (like dumars said), they went with darko. if they were so pumped on okur and ben is still young, why not go with those two and use melo? and then they bring in sheed and dumars is saying they want to bring back both sheed and okur? where would that leave darko? who knows, darko could become a beast but i just don't buy that b/c of prince, melo wasn't needed.
Caseloads
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5/13/2004  6:24 PM
it is too early to tell... on everything. still the only thing we do know is that carmelo is a sure thing.

if darko or tayshaun pan out, then dumars did the right thing.

if either of them dont pan out, then dumars was wrong.

sure portland drafted bowie, but if bowie ended up being hakeem-like, then who would have said anything?

what if portland took jordan, and tried to get jordan and clyde to play together and that ended up stunting jordan and jordan never became jordan? jordan probably only became jordan because of the exact scenario that he was in during his time in chicago. the team was built around him there, but jordan only became jordan because of all the championships. and he only started winning those championships when pippen came on board. what if pippen never came on board? what if pippen sufferred a career injury? fact of the matter is, jordan has NEVER proven being able to win without another superstar supporting member on his team.


same for carmelo. maybe he only did what he did because of his situation in denver


tkf
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5/13/2004  8:40 PM
It is not too early to tell at all. Dumars was a stubborn idiot and also euro struck when he was hell bent on taking darko over Melo. and I am not buying all thie tayshaun prince crap, prince can't carry melo's Jock at this point, and darko shouldn't even be allowed to sniff his jock. Lets get real, Darko is 18, melo is 19, so I don't want to hear that Darko is young, Melo at 18 was leading Cuse to a national championship, If darko can even get to the level that melo is now then detroit will be lucky. I hope it backfires in their faces, they too bought into all the euro hype... Here is a news flash... If there are 50 Euro players, and some Jackass publicist says that they are the next dirk, or Peja... Don't believe it!!!! That is why those guys are so good, it is because they are rare players, I am not saying Darko can't be a good player but for now, melo should have been the pick...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
joec32033
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5/13/2004  9:29 PM
I think passing on Carmelo was a pretty big blunder, but I think comparing Melo (by saying he shouldn't have drafted Darko) to prince is unfair. I think Melo will be a dominant player, but Prince reminds me alot of Pippen...someone who wasn't dominant in one area, but who excelled in alot of areas...Prince to me looks like the perfect complimentary piece in any offense while Melo is a 1st option type of player....I really liked Darko when he came out, and I don't think he had a chance to replace Wallace....Deroit needs defense from the frontcourt, not scoring (the guards handle that). Darko is a typical teenage euro (underdeveloped physically, and even though a good hard defender in europe, that doesn't necessarily translate to the same thing here...)
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Caseloads
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5/13/2004  11:24 PM
they took darko and said everyone would need to wait. so you got to listen to Dumars. he never said that Darko would be Carmelo right away.

Carmelo needs the ball to dominate. In detroit, with all the Vets there, he would not have gotten the ball on EVERY play, like he did in Denver.
TMS
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5/14/2004  8:37 AM
Posted by tkf:


Melo at 18 was leading Cuse to a national championship

i thought that didn't matter to you?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Andrew
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5/14/2004  9:29 AM
If you look at where the Pistons started a couple years ago and where they are now I think Dumars has earned some time to see how his picks turn out. Really the only poeple who have seen Darko play and can make an accurate judge of his potential have been the Pistons...you can't determine how good he will be by looking at his garbage minutes.
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fishmike
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5/14/2004  9:57 AM
dude, Pippen was a dominant player. I hated hom but he was one of the best in the NBA. He could defend 3 positions, and he WAS that teams PG (call him point foward if it makes you happy) for 6 titles. I probably hated Pip more than any other player in sports, but the guy was unreal.

Darko's value will become apparent in 2-3 years. As Big Ben start wearing down if the Piston's have a Brad Miller type player on their hands at a young age nobody will ever remember he was picked before Melo.
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djsunyc
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5/14/2004  10:02 AM
the jury is definitely still out but is there ANY doubt that if melo was on the pistons now, they would definitely be coming out of the east and possibly win the title NOW?
tkf
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5/14/2004  10:31 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by tkf:


Melo at 18 was leading Cuse to a national championship

i thought that didn't matter to you?

no it doesn't, let me break it down to you. this is for those who use age to determine how great a guy will be, but on the other hand use that as an excuse to pardon him for not being ready to play.... I am saying that if Dako was taken that high and thought that highly of then we should be seeing some glimpse of a real ball player. I used melo because at 18 he was already showing that he can play this game on a higher level.... at that age..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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5/14/2004  11:39 AM

I would rather have Tayshawn and Darko than one Carmello.

Tayshawn trade value may not be that high and he is young.

Dumars might have been Euro-Phucked, but its likely that Darko is still a project and not immeadiate payoff.

Jury is still way to out there.

But the only thing I see wrong is RJ can dominate Prince like no other. And Carmello rise is a little suprising.
TMS
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5/14/2004  12:22 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by tkf:


Melo at 18 was leading Cuse to a national championship

i thought that didn't matter to you?

no it doesn't, let me break it down to you. this is for those who use age to determine how great a guy will be, but on the other hand use that as an excuse to pardon him for not being ready to play.... I am saying that if Dako was taken that high and thought that highly of then we should be seeing some glimpse of a real ball player. I used melo because at 18 he was already showing that he can play this game on a higher level.... at that age..

so, if a collegiate player posts impressive numbers while leading his team to an NCAA title, it has no bearing on any comparison of that player to another who posted similar type numbers while not leading his team anywhere? you're telling me it doesn't matter if a player on ANY level of competition, whether it be HS, College or the NBA, that if he posts good numbers while playing on a championship level team, that it doesn't reflect better on that individual's talent & ability as if he had posted impressive numbers while playing on an average to poor team? i have to respectfully disagree w/that entire line of thinking...i think that in general, players who post good numbers on great teams are better than those who post good numbers on bad ones...i think that's how you separate the truly special type talents from the rest...their ability to bring their teams to the next level...of course, there will be the exceptions, but imho, the general trend in sports has been among the real great players, most of them were winners at just about every level of competition.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Caseloads
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5/14/2004  2:37 PM
Posted by Nalod:


I would rather have Tayshawn and Darko than one Carmello.

Tayshawn trade value may not be that high and he is young.

Dumars might have been Euro-Phucked, but its likely that Darko is still a project and not immeadiate payoff.

Jury is still way to out there.

But the only thing I see wrong is RJ can dominate Prince like no other. And Carmello rise is a little suprising.
What about the first two games when Prince whooped RJ?
djsunyc
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5/14/2004  2:39 PM
it was actually only game 1. games 2-4, no tayshaun and major rj.
kam77
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5/14/2004  4:46 PM
Why is Tayshaun considered Mr First Rd? I don't have his stats in front of me, but didn't he have a good series last year in the 2nd round? And didn't he play well in the firt two games of this series, and isn't he still young?

Geez, I hope some of you aren't going to become parents one day.

"Honey, our three year old is over the hill, why pay to send him to a private school? let's save money for the 1yr old."
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Nalod
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5/14/2004  8:01 PM
Dude plays bad 2 games and we got Dumars a big blunder?

The genious of most personal moves are rarely realized for a few years.

I think darko has yet to even turn 19 yet.

Bobby
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5/15/2004  12:42 PM
First of all ,Melo coming back to haunt Dumars isn’t going to happen . IMO, the real challenge for Dumars is mentoring euros players in buying into the NBA system while changing inferiority perceptions of fans such as tkf. If you don’t think euros aren’t buying into the game, too bad you’re overlooking Pau Gasol’s efforts with Memphis, and too bad you missed Tony Parker’s comments after game 2 of the LA/SA series. Parker said, in so many words, he is finally understanding what this game is all about. How many years has Parker played in this league ? Secondly, to put a time limit on one’s understanding of the game, buying into team concept and maturing as a NBA player is not easy to define, given, players come from different walks of life, different set of values with egos to satisfy. I’m all for Joe Dumars stubbornness in building competition and promoting team ball, talking about competition, anyone catch the Pistons/Nets game last night?….WOW!, forget about the blunders . Hey, where are the accolades for what Dumars has accomplished for Piston basketball in hockey town USA
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
tkf
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5/15/2004  5:48 PM
Bobby first of all, you don't know a thing about my perceptions, second players like gasol are the exception, not the rule, I have been a big gasol fan because he is one of the few euros who actually plays a real NBA game... dumars will have to live with this pick, come on man the second pick in the draft and he is so euro struck that he passes on melo!! I mean he was as sure of a thing as Lebron, Brown and others in the organization wanted melo... hmmm I wonder why??? I am sure that you were on of those fans sitting in front of your TV when Tapscott drafted Weiss instead of Artest, defending the pick saying that the scouting reports say that Weiss is young, has a nice touch is a seven footer and has great potential..LOL!!!!! yea...keep fooling yourslef Bro... As my man Ricky Ricardo says "lucy you have some plainin to do" hahahhah!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
joe dumars' biggest blunder?

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