I thought Tapscott was pres but Ernie GM or something... kind of like how LAyden was GM but Steve Mills pres. I could be wrong its been awile but I remember Ernie talking about drafting him. Oh well.. if it wasnt for whoever drafted Freddie we wouldnt have get stories like this to read:

New York City—Recent reports indicate that the New York Knicks are trying to move 7'2" French center Frederic Weis. The move comes on the heels of several conflicts between Weis and head coach Jeff Van Gundy's deodorant policy.

"Freddie does not need to use deodorant," said the center, speaking in the third person. An annoyed Van Gundy simply stated the obvious, "Fred smells."



http://www.twistedfans.com/weis.html

Hey,

Why don't you think the Knicks could have made the playoffs? Not that it was necessarily a good benchmark, but we had those 4 consecutive wins with FW at the helm--- KVH was playing healthy, and the Knicks looked like they were starting to gel both offensively and defensively.

Heck, everyone here was comparing FW to Clyde! It was an exciting moment in time--- we were beginning our youth movement, and people were optimistic about the future.

I think we took a small step forward w/ the Penny/Marbury trade, mostly because Penny filled a position we sorely needed (backup swingman). However, we lost a bit of optimism about the team, because it cost us our two "bargain" 2nd rounders, a first rounder, and the opportunity to shave off room over the cap w/ McDyess. In addition, it destroyed FW's promising future with the Knicks (essentially a wasted 1st round pick).

You are right in saying that our biggest problem is that we haven't been BAD enough to do a true rebuilding. Well, we had our chance this year. While I believe our pre-Marbury trade bunch was good enough to challenge for a playoff spot, we would have had a legit reason to have a bad season because of Houston's injury...

And with that... another lottery pick. I just wonder if we made good use of our resources in the Marbury/Hardaway trade-- we took an awful lot of salary.

Back to our defense, I didn't realize how much we had improved. :) Actually, we were defending fairly well early in the season w/ Mutombo/Doleac arguably providing the best defense at the center position in the east (with the exception of Ben Wallace).

I also enjoyed the play at PF with McDyess/KT/Harrington... but alas-- who knows if McDyess would have gotten healthier over time.

Posted by kam77:

Techno-

Knicks weren't gonna make the playoffs this season with that roster you mentioned IMO. But on the other hand we'd have a lottery pick. The real knock on Layden and Knick management the last few years is that they didn't field a bad enough team to draft a Lebron or a Butler or a Carmelo or a Wade or a Bosh etc....

We were stuck in mediocrity and we're still mired in it.

And the Knick Defense wasn't as bad as you mentioned. It's not up to Knick quality but better than the last few years. The Knicks finished 13th in the NBA in ppg allowed (93.5), and eighth in opposition FG pct. (.429). Knicks recorded their lowest opposition ppg and lowest opposition FG pct. since 2000-01.

Also, the Knicks pulled down 3,493 total rebounds (42.6 rpg, 14th in NBA), their highest rebound total since 1993-94 (3,717). . .Thanks in great measure to Dikembe Mutombo (123) and Kurt Thomas (80), the Knicks recorded 391 total blocks (4.77 bpg), their highest total since 1990-91 (418 total, 5.10 bpg). Knicks held the opposition under .400 shooting 26 times in 2003-04, going 20-6 in those games. In 2002-03, the defense recorded just 14 sub-.400 shooting games (9-5).

[Edited by - kam77 on 05/11/2004 00:51:36]

The main problem with this season (given the way we were constructed) was that we didn't have any shooters in the end. No shooters = poor spacing. At midseason, I think we had enough ammo to make the playoffs, with a healthy K.Thomas, Doleac, and KVH providing the shooting touch--- allowing our slashers to have room to do their thing.

You can break down offense to 3 main components: slashing & penetration / outside shooters / post-up play. I believe you need at least 2 of these facets to be successful--- the best teams usually have a mix of all 3.

BTW, I don't care what the athletes think. :) I'm looking at it from a fan's perspective. There was a moment when I felt like we were a team on the rise. After those extraneous trades, I began to feel like we were a team destined for mediocrity. After seeing us get destroyed by the Nets, I think we're going to need a huge amount internal improvement--- the problem is that Tim Thomas IMHO is going to need to improve his consistency a whole lot for us to improve as a team.

From a fan standpoint... we'll just have to watch from afar and see how OUR players work out on the Suns.


Back on topic-- Ideas for 2nd guessing (not in any particular order):
Not re-signing XMan (he claims the Knicks never made him an offer)
Trading for Charles Smith (then again--- the same trade brought us Doc Rivers and Bo Kimble)
Trading the emerging "superstar" Mason for LJ
Signing Houston as FA (instead of Steve Smith or Latrell Sprewell, both available at the same time!--> and not even giving an offer to Reggie!!!)
Not Re-SIGNING Bernard King!!!
Letting go of Darrell Walker
Trading Cartwright for Oakley
Signing Childs w/o first even taking a look at Kenny Anderson
1996 Draft Snafu---> Drafting John Wallace, THEN picking McCarty--- Ilgauskas was picked right after... (Jermaine O'Neal was drafted 1 pick ahead of Wallace)
Drafting Frank Williams instead of Boozer
Not signing Matt Carroll!!! (and keeping Vranes on board!)
Drafting John Thomas instead of ANYONE ELSE (funny-- the Celtic's impressive Mark Blount was pick #55 in that draft)
Drafting Weis instead of Artest
Exposing Greg Anthony in the expansion draft to give PT to Ward (if he hadn't undercut PJ Brown and got tossed... we'd have won a championship that year!) ?!?!
Trading Childs AND A PICK for Mark Jackson! (and not getting Strickland!!!)
Not playing Blackman in the NBA Finals
Limiting Buck Williams's playing time and letting him rot on the bench in the playoffs
Trading for McDyess, instead of gambling on Wilcox/Nene/Amare and hoping Camby healed...
Trading Ewing, instead of just giving him "extra" bucks for an extra season or two. I mean, come on, that money ended up going straight into Houston's pocket! This move set us back long term w/ Travis Knight/Eisley/Anderson...
Signing 'Spoon to fill LJ's shoes, instead of just gambling with a cheap backup PF solution (hey, shows a lot of confidence in Harrington, right?)
Not doing anything with Doug Christie for all of those years!
Trading Sprewell---> it'd have been nice to have him as our starting SG with Houston out--- don't you think? (I'm enjoying watching him with the T-wolves, I must say!)

The Knicks strategy of trading away 1st round picks during the mid-90s was okay with me, mostly because we were always among the top 8 teams in the NBA... thus the picks would have resulted in poop. However... during the late 90s, that strategy killed us. We weren't as good, and the picks were becoming more and more valuable.

Things we did absolutely right given the circumstances:
Bargain players - Starks / Mason / Bonner / Kurt Thomas
Trading Starks/Mills for Sprewell

(short list, yeah?)

I think we took a small step forward w/ the Penny/Marbury trade, mostly because Penny filled a position we sorely needed (backup swingman).

So Marbury is a chump to you?

However, we lost a bit of optimism about the team, because it cost us our two "bargain" 2nd rounders, a first rounder,

You mean YOU lost a bit of optimism. I remain optimistic. I'd rather have the swingman you mentioned and the PG you didn't mention than all that "bargain" potential.

and the opportunity to shave off room over the cap w/ McDyess

That would have been a verrryy bad move. Letting Dyess go would not have helped the cap at all, In fact he was our best trade bait this season precisely because he was an ending salary. Had we just let his contract expire and let him walk away, we still wouldn't have any cap room.

In addition, it destroyed FW's promising future with the Knicks (essentially a wasted 1st round pick).

Nothing is a waste. Fwill is still here contributing and could be traded when his value rises. Already the PLAYOFF experience helped Fwills stock.

BTW, I don't care what the athletes think. :) I'm looking at it from a fan's perspective. There was a moment when I felt like we were a team on the rise. After those extraneous trades, I began to feel like we were a team destined for mediocrity.

Are you Scott Layden? Those "extraneous trades" breathed life into a lifeless team.

yeah, you were right about jordan. i think jordan, AT FIRST, did well. he got rid of three major contracts in one season and they had youth. the big mistakes with jordan were lacing his shoes on again, signing his cronies to yell and gang up on the young players and hiring doug collins. he let his pride affect his business sense. but that was his first experience with the business side of the nba. zeke did it and failed one and received mixed reveiws with the other. he took his lumps and can learn from his mistakes.

Hey, I'd have to agree with you--- I was just bringing up all sorts of things that could be 2nd guessed--- or simply, in hindsight, may not have been good.

Regarding the Ewing trade (the move that did us in)--- I still contend that had Longley not retired prematurely before doing anything for us and had Rice not been suffering from nagging injuries, the Ewing trade would not have been nearly so bad.

HOWEVER... when you trade for damaged goods,it shows that the team either didn't do its homework, or that the people doing the homework are incompetent (*subtle dig at the Knicks' medical staff and scouts*).

I suppose the same goes for the McDyess trade... and the people who rushed Houston back. Come on, anyone reasonably sharp had to be disturbed that Houston played 49 minutes in the season opening w/o much playing time in the pre-season. (play himself into shape my arse)