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Balance of power shifting East
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BRIGGS
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5/7/2004  11:11 AM
When I watch these playoffs, it's becomes apparent to me that the Indiana Pacers are going to be the new kid on the block and have a legit threat to win the whole ball of wax this year. They have all ingredients, anchor post stud who plays alongside other size, athletic ability, shot makers toughness defense style of play, high quality depth. They rebuilt the club under another team that was championship contenders. Detroit loaded loaded loaded -might be the most interesting series in a long time-pacers pistons. But you can see in the high quality of play that the east is now starting to rev up again. Even young teams like Miami who are as young as any team in the league shows a style of play tremendous skill/athletiscm and just need to rid themselves of either grant or jones and get bigger. They are also a scary team with good good coaching.

Our knicks look rag tag compared to these teams we are much older we have no style of play we are cpped to the gill---i see a team that has no chance competeing with detroit or Indiana any time soon. Will it be soon enough before Lebron takes the east over? NO way. Knicks are a team that made an expensive move and will patchwork it's way right back to the lottery. How can you not se it? unless there is MLE miracles+ H2O has a resurection going on 34, this team will slop in medicority until it ultimatletly falters again
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
djsunyc
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5/7/2004  11:26 AM
you're the best - you should consider volunteering down at the suicide hotline center...

it's the east beating up the east - let's see how they fare against the spurs, sac, or the lakers.
simrud
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5/7/2004  11:30 AM
You are an idiot. I'm sorry, but the Knicks can improve too you know. You sound like Layden is still our GM. We actually have a guy that does something. And as for Indiana, they have SG to replace Miller who is 38 and still starting, there PG is a question mark with Tinsley and Anthony Johnson(???). There starting center is Foster. Bender has yet to show anything. Harrington might leave to start somwehere pretty soond, and even now, he is the only legi guy of the Indiana bench. Artest and JO are there two allstars. That's about all they got at this point going into the future, that and a great coach, GM, and president. So you know they'll get better. But so will the Knicks.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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5/7/2004  11:31 AM
what is the knicks starting nine core next year--lets assume no changes until there are some give me name position and age
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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5/7/2004  11:40 AM
obviously the core nine next season will be:

marbury
h20
kobe
sheed
dampier
frank
sweetney
dermarr
jr smith
fishmike
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5/7/2004  12:32 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

what is the knicks starting nine core next year--lets assume no changes until there are some give me name position and age
Eisley
Houston
KVH
Antonio McDyess
Kurt Thomas

Oh wait.. no that was last year when we were a rag tag capped out team that had no options and no style of play.

Again... I just LOVE how you can preach to draft HS kids, and pretend to have the patience to watch unwatchable basketball for 3-4 years while they develop, but cant give a brand new GM with a fair track record who clearly knows NBA basketball, and have that same patience to at least see what that GMs plan is.

A good example is the Kings. They got Webber, but the Kings were a first round exit for 2-3 years until they were able to add other player and make trades. You use these teams as examples but fail to point out the long legwork period to took a good GM like Geoff Peitry (sp?) to BUILD a good team.

OF COURSE we are a rag tag group with no style of play. A new GM came in after 4 years of total ineptitude and started cleaning house.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Chico
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5/7/2004  1:15 PM
He's perfectly right that this team now or next year has any chance whatsoever to beat Indiana, Detroit, NJ, or Miami in a seven game series. While I disagree that we're going back to the lottery, I do believe we have an eighth seed team who will be swept in the first round. Where I disagree is that I think Isiah has done a good job. Because Allan Houston will miss at least 50 games next year, zeke's moves have done enough to ensure another 38 or 39 win season. If Houston still had cartilidge in his knees and wasn't permanantly damaged goods, we could be a 45 win team and compete. The thing is he doesn't and is. We'll lose Moochie in the expansion draft, sign someone relevant with the MLE, and get something legitimately good with the deke/trybanski/harrrington ending contract trade. Those moves will make us better than we were this year. The following year, Penny and Tim's contracts will be ending. We can use those to trade and get some really nice pieces that could get us into the second round that year. Next year we actually have a number one pick that will be around fourteen-sixteen. I give zeke a 50% chance of picking up a marquise daniels lite or a carlos boozer lite or a ben wallace lite in the second round in a few weeks that will help out in the second half of next year.
Chico
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5/7/2004  1:19 PM
while the seven game first round series are getting universally panned by fans and writers don't look for the nba to give up on that lucrative money so the seven game first round is here to stay. Our team will struggle against the better teams in the east harder in a 4 of 7 than a 3 of 5. Who knows if we'd beat Miami like we did in 99 as an eighth seed if we'd have had to win 4 instead of 3?

Knicks ECF in '06!!!!
BRIGGS
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5/7/2004  1:20 PM
see now you are embarassed by the team. you cant put our starting 9 out there[we do have locked contracts] with age position and minutes. im just trying to guagewhere the toughness defense et al will come from and if this team is built to breakdown. we can alter it if we make substantive moves--but what is it that we have today? by the way what style of play do we have? are we a defensive team a fast breaking team a low post halfcourt O

is this the line up with ages during the year?
C Nazr 6-10 245 27
PF KT 6-9 235 32
SF TT 6-10 240 28
SG H2) 6-6 34
PG Marbury 6-2 28
Dikembe??? Baker???? lets say baker 33
PF Sweetney 6-8 260 22
SF Hardaway 6-7 33
SG Andersen 6-6 31
PG Williams 6-3 23
------------avg age 29.1
RIP Crushalot😞
diderotn
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5/7/2004  1:37 PM
some of you are so impatient and your comments are upsetting to me. Isia hasn't even been around for more than six months and he has marched this team to the playoffs. Although we got killed in the first round, but that experience along will turn the Knicks into a success story. This isn't the old regime, S.T.F.Up and wait and see what the man will be allowed to do.
The true Knickabocker..........
fishmike
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5/7/2004  1:54 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

is this the line up with ages during the year?
C Nazr 6-10 245 27
PF KT 6-9 235 32
SF TT 6-10 240 28
SG H2) 6-6 34
PG Marbury 6-2 28
Dikembe??? Baker???? lets say baker 33
PF Sweetney 6-8 260 22
SF Hardaway 6-7 33
SG Andersen 6-6 31
PG Williams 6-3 23
------------avg age 29.1

I dont know... do you think it is? Do you know what Isiah's plan is?

This is so stupid I cant believe you post this everyday.

Did anyone else hear Isiah say his goal was to get younger and more athletic, and to aquire more trading pieces to make his roster more flexible?

BRIGGS, why cant you accept this will take a little time? It took the Kings 2-3 years to put a good supporting cast around Webber. Every good team went through some transition period. This is ours. So far Isiah has had one trade deadline. Ask me again after the 2006 offseason where we were. No GM could be expected to do ANYTHING with this group in less then 2-3 years. Why does Isiah only get 3 months?

Its ridiculous... people probably thing I'm some kind of kool-aid drinking ISiah worshiper. I like to think I understand building this team will take more than one trade deadline and coaching changes (in midseason).

How many examples of trades and draft scenarios (that are based on recent history) for to realize this is a phase we are in?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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5/7/2004  2:38 PM
Briggs stop acting like the knicks are the only team that has players that will be a year older.. Steph will not be 28 until the season is almos over, and the same goes with TT.. Just stop it with this foolishness.. And by the way between the ages of 26-33 these are the players prime years, so what is the problem with having your core in tact and in their primes for the next 5 to 6 years?

But since you want to list advanced ages here we go..

Indiana Pacers core:

Austin Croshere 30
Jermain oneal 27
Jamal tinsley 27
Reggie Miller 40
Al Harrington 25 If he is still there
Scott Pollard 30
Ron Artest 26
Jeff Foster 28
Fred Jones 26
Kenny Anerson 34

Average age 29.3

So again Briggs what is your point?????????????????/
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
gunsnewing
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5/7/2004  3:21 PM
Shaq and Duncan were traded to the East! wow i didn't know that!
BRIGGS
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5/7/2004  3:35 PM
the team won 61 games dude 20-8 against the west and have a huge chance to win it all.
their main players
jermaine oneal is 25
artest 24
harrington 24

only 1 player other than miller plays


we are light years behind this team has been put together 3 years ago and have gone through the process. comparing the knicks and pacers is ludicrous because they are 10 times better.
RIP Crushalot😞
kam77
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5/7/2004  3:42 PM
"When I watch these playoffs, it's becomes apparent to me that the Indiana Pacers are going to be the new kid on the block and have a legit threat to win the whole ball of wax this year. They have all ingredients, anchor post stud who plays alongside other size, athletic ability, shot makers toughness defense style of play, high quality depth. "

But they gave up Brad Miller for Scot Pollard.
So much for tilting the balance of power.

Fair weather fans will always point to other teams and be envious.
It takes guts to come in and say "its gonna take a few years to clean this mess up guys" which is what Isiah has told us. Now be a good Knick fan and follow the leader. The [old] King is dead, long live the King.



[Edited by - kam77 on 05/07/2004 15:43:48]
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
fishmike
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5/7/2004  4:09 PM
this is why I hate Brigg's posts about the Knicks. Its always the same... the Knicks cant do anything and this is the team we have for the next 3 years (silly point a). Yet EVERY year, SEVERAL trades are made by teams that can afford to take on payroll. What great piece did the Kings give up to get Brad Miller. Or the Mav's Jamison? Its always the same song and dance. If we talk about gettin Van Ex he's an undersized shooting guard with broken knees. If we talk about getting a player like Jamison its impossible because we dont have those kinds off assets. Didnt the Pacers get beat in the first round last year? And the year before? And the year before that also?

Its easy to pick the team thats already gone through their groth process and say "we are light years from them."

Duh...
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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5/7/2004  6:25 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

the team won 61 games dude 20-8 against the west and have a huge chance to win it all.
their main players
jermaine oneal is 25
artest 24
harrington 24

only 1 player other than miller plays


we are light years behind this team has been put together 3 years ago and have gone through the process. comparing the knicks and pacers is ludicrous because they are 10 times better.
Briggs cut your BS, you have no integrity at all, none!! you post knicks ages as of next year when they are a year older yet to prove your point you post the ages of the pacers using this current year numbers, that is BS.. and Jermain oneal is 26 will be 27 next season , Artest is already 25 will be 26 next season, Harrington will be 25, Stop the BS, the knicks core of steph, TT, Sweetney and Frankie are all either a year different or in Frank and sweetney case 3 years younger... I guess this will be your new MO "never let the truth stand in the way of proving your point"......LOL!!!

[Edited by - tkf on 05/07/2004 18:27:43]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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5/7/2004  6:47 PM
in a few years the east will be lebrons world. unless we get a very high draft pick or 2 with LUCK involved and execute, we will be stuck in mediocre land.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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5/7/2004  6:50 PM
you are forgetting the pacers are a finished product that will only improve after winning 61 games. wake me up when ron artest and jermaine oneal are on our roster otherwise we are a 39 win team with a winning % below .300 aginst the west.

RIP Crushalot😞
BigSm00th
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5/7/2004  7:23 PM
I think each side of the argument has good points. The Pacers have done it the right way (building around a big man in JO), but they've gotten pretty lucky.

Artest and Brad Miller for Jalen Rose.
Dale Davis for JO.

and they've also been pretty dumb at times:
Scot Pollard for Brad Miller.

Knicks need to acquire another young guy up front, either Chandler, Curry, or somebody.

Briggs, you howl about Houston's poor knees all the time when Reggie Miller is 4 years older with bad ankles and he does the same role. Just shoots the jump shot and hits it a fair amount of times. In that respect you are too one-sided against anything non-Knick.

If the Knicks make a trade for Chandler and he develops, then how are they not right behind the Pacers?

Sweetney is improving, Marbury (I think) will improve this offseason with Isiah's tutelage. They lack one more piece to build around, preferably (and probably) a PF or C. Let's just hope they get one.

But with deals like Brad Miller for Scot Pollard or Ron Artest and Brad Miller for Jalen Rose and junk or Rasheed Wallace for Chucky Atkins, can you please stop just dicounting the Knicks from everything. Bad trades happen every year, so let's just see how it plays out and not just post every day "THE KNICKS ARE DOOMED. LOOK AT THE SPURS WITH DUNCAN. THEY ARE A MILLION TIMES BETTER HOUSTON BAD KNEES MARBURY IS 43 AND SWEETNEY IS OVERWEIGHT!" It gets tiring after a while.
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Balance of power shifting East

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