Posted by tkf:

good point fellas, and here are a few things I see wrong with stern and the NBA.. stern has tried so hard to cater to the euro players that he has changed the game almost for the worse. the game has gotten softer, slower and guys like shaq who are the stars of the league are so frustrated they are losing interest. The NBA has fallen so much in love with the Euro player and the HS players that they have watered down the league, I see no one has made a big deal over detroit drafting Darko over melo, but that is a major gaffe by detroit, they won't feel it this year or maybe next year, but that team will feel the effects of that stupid move..

Posted by martin:

Posted by tkf:

good point fellas, and here are a few things I see wrong with stern and the NBA.. stern has tried so hard to cater to the euro players that he has changed the game almost for the worse. the game has gotten softer, slower and guys like shaq who are the stars of the league are so frustrated they are losing interest. The NBA has fallen so much in love with the Euro player and the HS players that they have watered down the league, I see no one has made a big deal over detroit drafting Darko over melo, but that is a major gaffe by detroit, they won't feel it this year or maybe next year, but that team will feel the effects of that stupid move..

tell me how Stern has catered specifically to the Euros.

Isn't it Stern that wanted to impose an age limit? Blame the players union and GMs.

The game has gotten slower? Didn't the league try to quicken the pace of the game after the Riley years? Shorter time period to get the ball past half court.

what's your point again?

Posted by tkf:

Posted by martin:

Posted by tkf:

good point fellas, and here are a few things I see wrong with stern and the NBA.. stern has tried so hard to cater to the euro players that he has changed the game almost for the worse. the game has gotten softer, slower and guys like shaq who are the stars of the league are so frustrated they are losing interest. The NBA has fallen so much in love with the Euro player and the HS players that they have watered down the league, I see no one has made a big deal over detroit drafting Darko over melo, but that is a major gaffe by detroit, they won't feel it this year or maybe next year, but that team will feel the effects of that stupid move..

tell me how Stern has catered specifically to the Euros.

Isn't it Stern that wanted to impose an age limit? Blame the players union and GMs.

The game has gotten slower? Didn't the league try to quicken the pace of the game after the Riley years? Shorter time period to get the ball past half court.

what's your point again?

martin if you watched basketball you would understand my point.. Stern with the stupid rules changes, the no hand checking, the silly hard foul rules that just hamper the defense, all have made this game soft, stern has done this to neutralize the effectivness of physical players like shaq who was virtually unstoppable. He tried to turn this game into a run and gun, no defense league, a style that perfectly suited the euro players, he has for years tried to appeal to the european players, now when he notices that the league and the quality has been watered down, he is trying to backtrack by crying for a age limit..LOL.. that is stern BS. I mean he has done a lot for the NBA as far as marketing but he has gone a bit far with the catering to the euro players....

As far as the rules changes, they made some rules to speed up the game but then negated them with crap like the zone... yea that is great.... that surely will speed up the game.. And how does taking 2 seconds off the half court rule speed up the game??? how??

Posted by EnySpree:

Martin.....

I see yuo took the time to analyze my whole post but still had no clue what I was saying.

My point is Tony was 19 coming into this league and everyone was talking about potential and how good he wil be etc.

Marbury at 19 was looked on as a guy going for the money. They talked flap about the way he talked and how he needed to stay in school. Meanwhile he has done nothing but kill the league since he was a rookie right away. Even now Marbury is looked on as a chucker and selfish player.

So I can stop repeating myself....look at Allen Iverson. The made the zone defense to stop him from winning so many scoring titles!!!
Yeah I said it....
The zone is a system set to force a team to make jump shots. That rule was to prevent Iverson from getting too many scoring titles and thus becoming a legend.....the new face of the NBA.

They tried to kill his game once before when they outlawed his deadly cross-over. They don't want Iverson to be that guy that you look at the NBA and say he is the man.

Parker is a good kid from France. Claxton can't get a contract from the Spurs after being the driving for behind the title.

Tony makes a regular cross-over move and it's on every sports show on television.

My point is that Rafer Alston won a starting job in Toronto but can't get a contract. The only reason Miami signed Rafer was because they needed a point guard cuz they had none on the roster. Rafer could start on alot of teams. When Wade got hurt he proved that. He proved that a year before in Toronto.

About those Euro player....
Someone said Carlos Boozer needed development? What game are you watching? Carlos can play. His game is not the result of good coaching since he's been in the league. He already had the game.

Darko, Lampe, Slavko Vranes, etc....those guys need development. And I agree with TKF about the watered down league. It's a shame that all these Euro's can get a guarenteed contract but Josh Howard, and Marquis Daniels have to put in all this work just to win a contract after being drafted in the second round.

That's bullshtt. That's Tony Parkers free ride. Rod Strickland is still thought as a cancer but he still is trying to just play ball somewhere while he's pushing 40 years old.

It sucks....but I'm a cry baby and you are gonna tell me that's life. Nope it's the reality of sports and society in general.

Everyone was ready to hand Jay Williams the rookie of the year and he sucked. They still draft Hinrich with Jamal Crawford clearly showing he was ready. He had to force the Bulls to play him.

This is what's not fair.

All these high schoolers know that as soon as the light is off them it's hard to get noticed unless you go to a big named school and go deep into the NCAA tourney. Why go through all that and risk not getting drafted. Might as well do it while the league is shining the light on you.

If you still think it's because I think Tony Parker can't play you are flip top jackarse.

Posted by tkf:

Matin: I don't want to argue, I just want a good convo and you made some good points, I agree that stern is all about marketing and appealing to the fans and that is true, but my point is that with all these changes, have we truly seen wide open basketball? Has the scoring increased? I mean the pistons are still shutting people down, and teams like the Hawks, clippers, Bulls and magic are not only a disgrace but they still can't put the ball in the hoop!! I agree with enyspree, this league is so watered down and full of BS, guys like daniels, boozer, sweetney, wade still have to prove themselves and guys like Daniels have to fight for deals while these Euro guys are getting contracts and can't play a lick, and this is why I say that stern has catered to euro players, he has made this league so Euro friendly (no defense, soft play) that nowadays when you find a team that plays defense it is almost a phenomenon... Look at the mavs, they score a lot but play no defense, and when you really look at it they are not that great at scoring but the league is so weak at defending. I dissagree that you have to loosen the rules to encourage more scoring, all you have to do is build teams that have guys who can play the game, that is defend and score. Look back in the days of magic, bird and even the old Denver Nuggets teams that used to average well over 100ppg. and they did it in a league that played defense. Look at Jordan and the bulls, they scored points and the games were exciting , and yes they even did this in a era of Detroit and the bad boy pistons, and why, because the bulls had guys who can score and play the friggin game.. Today this league has ushered in a bunch of guys who are highlight seeking fools, guys who know nothing about the game...

Posted by BRIGGS:

guy get your facts straight. Tony Parker was not hyped--in fact he was the last or second to last pick in the first round by SA after RC Buford watched him in the hoops summitt--yep they picked him because he caught their eye going against the USA select under 21 team. Marbury was as hyped as you can get--this kid was nothing--NOBODY knew of him and was bypassed in the draft by every team. The guy is an emerging superstar. The Lakers are conceding they cant guard him. Marbury is a great player, but there are several comprable players but the KEY is those PG are not the franchise player. And the Knicks need a player who is comparable to Marbury in the post then fill out the roster with solid role players. Good luck finding that pivot!

Posted by Nalod:

Top euros are professionals at age 16 andhave to buy out their own contracts if they want NBA. Yes, they must put uptheir own money. NBA pays a premium, or they won't come. THey can shoot the ball.

There are players that have to scratch and claw their way to the top. THe nba life is only real sweet for just a few players.

Marbs, poor marbs has been making great money, and got extended for max money. He gets paid tens of millions, and ONLY gets crap for his grammer.

Look man, I see where your going, you want to pull the card out and use it, go ahead.

Sounds like you like point guards the most.

The more you rant about Parker, the more I like him.

Steph came out 9 years ago, things were different then.

Kenny Anderson was a dissapointment in the NBA.

Tiny archibald played in Kansas City and led the league in scoring and assist in one season. THey did not have cable or nearly as many games on the tube. He was buried in KC. But he was known, and regared as the best point then. Stern was not Commish then.

7 foot dudes that have fundamentals are prospects. American monster players whom cant hit a free throw, have bad foot work, and little game are a dime a dozen. But they can run and dunk. Those guys, like E-Robb whom got huge money are going by the way side and are killing the game, not the Euros. E-Rob, Darius Miles, are not fundamentally sound in there games.