blkexec wrote:I think Lebron put a slight dent into his legacy, when it was known that Wade, Bosh and Lebron had a plan to join forces at a reduced price. Maybe it's just me, but I have great pleasure in winning with an under dog team, vs playing on a team full of all stars......I've done both and won both ways, and still enjoyed the underdog team success the most. Because I had to do more as a player, leader, etc....Just to win. Then everybody started to hop on the bandwangon and we kept winning. Then when I left, the team started losing, and losing bad....Thats the sign of a great player. Yes, others have done it, but not to this extent. I'm sure other GM's had this plan, and won championships like the Celtics. But I haven't heard of players joining forces like this. If Patrick Ewing, Barkley and others would've done the same thing, they would win just as many chips as Lebron, or maybe more.
For example, what if Melo decides to join Miami at a reduced rate, and he wins about 4 championships before he retires. Is he now 1 of the Mt. Rushmore players? Would he be one of the greatest?
I believe it can't be based on just championships or wins....But also who changed the game? Who changed the NBA? Who established leadership on and off the court? Who was a model for generations to follow? Who was loved by almost everybody?
To me, Lebron will never be on this level just because of bad timing....If he came into the NBA during the old small shorts with no 3 pt line era, then he probably would be the greatest ever......Maybe thats just me hating, but I can't put Lebron on the same level as Bill Russell, Wilt C, Oscar Robinson, Jerry West, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordon
These guys changed the NBA....How did Lebron impact the NBA? Now he will be one of the greatest physical specimens that ever played the game....No question! But if he was able to bring a championship to Cleveland, using his leadership on the court while leading management to make the right decisions....And becoming a modeled NBA player for others to follow on and off the court....Then yes, he would be up there with the rest.
But after joining together like the super friends, I can't just give him praise like everybody else. Because Melo is in the same situation as Lebron was in. And if Melo played with Wade and Bosh (and had a savy GM), he would have similar success. But again, Lebron is still one of the greatest players that played the game. I just think he's always going to be on level 2 under the guys I mentioned above (simply due to bad timing on his part), who actually changed the game. Talk to me when Lebron retires and maybe I might change my mind.....
Blkexec: You put forth a compelling argument and I agree and disagree with different parts of it. Personally, I believe Lebron has _a good chance_ to be a Rushmore player but it'd definitely not a definite. Durant probably has a chance too, since he's so young still.
The one part of your argument I will contest you on however is the idea that Lebron joined some kind of elite team in the Heat. Without Lebron, a Miami team headlined by Wade and Bosh is a perennial playoff team that loses in the 1st or 2nd round every year. It's not a championship contender IMO. Not even close. Now this is getting into the area of hypotheticals of course because MIA would have $19 million to add someone besides Lebron but who else was available in 2010 that would push the Wade/Bosh tandem over the edge to championship contender? Especially because it's clear Wade isnt the same player he was during the mid to late 2000's. Probably the best player they could've gotten would've been Paul a year later. I still don't see them getting a chip.
So yeah, Lebron teamed up with Wade/Bosh but be is also indubitably the engine that runs Miami and what turns them into a championship caliber wrecking ball on offense and defense. Hell, id also argue that Pippen is a better player than Bosh and probably equal in terms of impact to Wade (a notch less on offense, but certainly a better defender). Nobody ever puts an asterisk on Jordan's chips for having Pippen, right? Yeah, the various parts of the Bulls didn't conspire to play together, but to me that fact doesn't really make me change my opinion. It just is what it is.
Actually, now that I think about it I'd even argue that the talent on Jordan's Bulls was BETTER top to bottom than this Miami roster over the past 3 seasons. After the big 3 they have guys like Joel Anthony and an ancient, hobbled Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem who is a nice forward but certainly not ever more than a solid rotation guy. Jordan had an preternatural rebounding machine in Rodman, Longley who while wasn't great was certainly no slouch, Kukoc (probably a legit #2 option on any other team and certainly better than ANYONE on Miami after the big 3 by a lot!), Kerr who could shoot the three like mad, and then Horace Grant! To say Miami stacked the deck or has a super team just doesn't hold water with me. They are super because they have a 6'8" 280lb forward who can play Point 1,2,3,4 while playing all NBA D on opposing teams best player at any position.
2/18/2014 9:34 AM
