So I poked around, because I wanted to know just how bad our backcourt has been and I found this:
http://www.82games.com/1314/1314NYK5.HTM

Knicks guards:
Get outrebounded
Get out assisted
Are less efficient then their opponents
get outscored

I mean... across the board from points, rebs, assists, PER, literally every stat or category they get out played (usually by alot) EVERY night.

The only thing they arent geting abused on is TOs, overall the opposing guards turn it over 1.5 a game more.

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Per 82 games.com, this is the opponents production against the Knicks. I knew opponent guards were torching the Kncks, but I didn't fully grasp how much opposing centers own the Knicks too. Our guards suck and Chandler apparently is in Pacino/de Niro mode and just cashing paychecks and coasting on past successes

Pos.		FGA	eFG%	FTA	iFG	Reb	Ast	T/O	Blk	PF	Pts	PER*
PG		18.8  	.476  	6.2  	25% 	5.8  	7.6  	3.7  	0.3  	3.1  	22.9  	17.2  
SG		16.7  	.531  	5.3  	24% 	6.5  	4.1  	2.7  	0.4  	2.7  	22.2  	17.1  
SF		15.1  	.541  	4.0  	24% 	7.2  	3.3  	2.3  	0.6  	4.4  	19.4  	14.8  
PF		13.5  	.524  	4.5  	38% 	9.8  	2.4  	3.0  	0.8  	4.6  	17.6  	14.3  
C		12.6  	.517  	5.7  	57% 	13.4  	2.5  	2.6  	1.7  	4.7  	17.1  	16.8 

As of 1/26 (gosh 82games is so slow!) Chandler has a net PER of +1.5. He's still outproducing his opponent. And he's played better since then.

good to know - I am particularly down on the Knicks this morning. Tyson is/was one of my favorites

gunsnewing wrote:Exactly. If you are going to resign Melo for $30mik you need to rely on young guys with upside like Murray but the Knicks rather rely on older vet minimum seasoned and NBDL talent. Woodson's offense sucks. He wants to rely on veterans. Problem is you need smart wavy veterans like Kidd. Problem is you can't rely on those guys for 82 games. Something's got to change or we are going to suck or be mediocre for another decade plus. We need a Thibs type who will get the most out of all 15 roster spots. I can only imagine what guys like Thibs & Vogel would do with guys like Murray, Tyler and Shump. They would make sure those guys are ready to step in and contribute and not keep using injuries as an excuse. The more players Woodson has at his disposal the more clueless he looks. They are not practicing the right way. His plans change on a game to game basis. It is really path if to watch. But funny at the same time

agree with the bold. The key to last year's magic was Kidd had the resume to demand that everyone make the extra pass. This team doesn't do that any more and a lot of that is on Woodson. I'd also like to blame the front office. I was pleased with Melo and JR's production - wtf?!?!?! at the same time?!?!?! - but the overall roster is awful

nyk4ever wrote:this is why i dont understand why woodson doesn't give murry more of a chance? felton's defense on knight at the end of the game was atrocious last night, he backed off him and let him shoot ball! murry might make a mistake here and there but the kid gives effort and quite frankly has played well when given the opportunity.

Dude, I know. It is so infuriating, though some here think Murry is garbage and can't run an offense. I'm unsure if they're watching the same games as me because, as I've posted before - take away Felton's slow ass penetration for the lob dunk and he is worthless out there. Prigs is the better option (specifically for the O) and that's not saying much.

I mean how can Felton allow himself to get beat on that back door play? That annoyed me more than the 3. Enough already...

sealy wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:this is why i dont understand why woodson doesn't give murry more of a chance? felton's defense on knight at the end of the game was atrocious last night, he backed off him and let him shoot ball! murry might make a mistake here and there but the kid gives effort and quite frankly has played well when given the opportunity.

Dude, I know. It is so infuriating, though some here think Murry is garbage and can't run an offense. I'm unsure if they're watching the same games as me because, as I've posted before - take away Felton's slow ass penetration for the lob dunk and he is worthless out there. Prigs is the better option (specifically for the O) and that's not saying much.

I mean how can Felton allow himself to get beat on that back door play? That annoyed me more than the 3. Enough already...

Yea and opponents are openiy admitting that they are targeting Felton with the back door play and switches

True, The Sucks should never have been in that position to shoot for the win. But at least Felton should have fouled him and put him at the line for 2 free throws.

Felton and Woody need to GTFO of here.

gunsnewing wrote:Also it is not all Raymond Felton he sucks but we sucked when he was out too. To the point where people were excited about his return

FACT

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Per 82 games.com, this is the opponents production against the Knicks. I knew opponent guards were torching the Kncks, but I didn't fully grasp how much opposing centers own the Knicks too. Our guards suck and Chandler apparently is in Pacino/de Niro mode and just cashing paychecks and coasting on past successes

Pos.		FGA	eFG%	FTA	iFG	Reb	Ast	T/O	Blk	PF	Pts	PER*
PG		18.8  	.476  	6.2  	25% 	5.8  	7.6  	3.7  	0.3  	3.1  	22.9  	17.2  
SG		16.7  	.531  	5.3  	24% 	6.5  	4.1  	2.7  	0.4  	2.7  	22.2  	17.1  
SF		15.1  	.541  	4.0  	24% 	7.2  	3.3  	2.3  	0.6  	4.4  	19.4  	14.8  
PF		13.5  	.524  	4.5  	38% 	9.8  	2.4  	3.0  	0.8  	4.6  	17.6  	14.3  
C		12.6  	.517  	5.7  	57% 	13.4  	2.5  	2.6  	1.7  	4.7  	17.1  	16.8 

As of 1/26 (gosh 82games is so slow!) Chandler has a net PER of +1.5. He's still outproducing his opponent. And he's played better since then.

good to know - I am particularly down on the Knicks this morning. Tyson is/was one of my favorites