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question--if isiah gets to use the mle
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BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  12:50 PM
does another round of trading and we stay relatively healthy, yet end up winning--lets say 36 games and finish 10th in the division--what course of action would you want to take place?
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Andrew
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5/3/2004  12:59 PM
1) If not done already...fire the coach.

2) Rebuild. Young guys at all positions.
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fishmike
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5/3/2004  1:15 PM
how would we win less games by staying "relativly healthy" (we werent all year), and adding a player we need with the MLE?

Too many hypotheticals. If this current roster stays healthy we win 45 games. If we can sign MArk Blount, Chris Anderson, whoever even better. Ask me again in October.

On a side note Briggs, do you want Isiah to fail? Do you want to see half a decade of 15 win seasons while we hope this years #1 is "the one" ????
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  1:29 PM
it's a fair question to ask. in terms of health, the timberwolves who has the best record in the west had 3-4 times as much injury time to major players as we did. We lost H2O for 30 games and we had some minor stuff. these guys lost wally hudson and kandiman for the majority of the season and the playoffs but still won 58 games and the first round 4-1. every team has injury problems for the most part, we had a realtively healthy year IMHO.

the question is if we stay relatively healthy we add in an isiah picked MLE and perhaps 1 trade where we take on salary again and it doesnt work at the end of the year i.e 36 wins 10th place---what does the team do?
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djsunyc
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5/3/2004  1:39 PM
what? h20 is an important piece to our offense. when you lose wally and hudson but have spree and cassell replacing them (better players), the wolves actually got BETTER. when we lose h20, and his place in our offense, and we replace him with shandon/penny, we get worse. the minny example is a bad one. (plus, they also happen to have the MVP of the league).

and we were relatively healthy this season? i don't think so. name one stretch, of more than a month we had all our pieces together. i could only think of only november and that's it and those were the days of shantella eisleyspoon.

if we are "relatively" healthy and lose more games, then something major went wrong with this team. at that point, you have to assess what the problem is - it could be one player, it could be the coach, or it could be a variety of things. that's something we can't answer until it happens.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05/03/2004 13:39:46]

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05/03/2004 13:41:53]
BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  1:52 PM
you have to be kidding right? wally was replaced by trenton hassell -sprewell was going to start 2G no matter what. kandiman was replaced at C by mark madsen and earvin johnson and their 6th man troy hudson--who had averaged over 20 points against the lakers was basically never repalced. its not even close--on top of that wally is just about as good as H2o by himself the kings lost webber for almost the entire year with bobby jackson is h20 better than webber? come on --why did the kings win so many games? be real you are making excuses--much better teams dealt with much worse injury problems and much less payroll
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fishmike
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5/3/2004  1:57 PM
The Wolves lost role players, but save this for rain day worse than this one.

You have to look at why the individual pieces played so poorly.

I think we are a .530 team under Wilkins. I know we are over .500 with Marbury. So what happened during the year that made this group worse? Did Marbury regress? Did TT underachieve (even more than normal) ? Where the flashes Frank and Sweetney showed a fluke? Did KT get dumber? Did they all quit on the coach?

Sorry, yea we only won 39 games but just waiving off any injuries and the huge amount of roster changes we went through as no impact is ridiculous, especially when you see so many other teams have good second halfs after adjusting to playing together for 40-50 games.

You said yourself we would be a .500 team because of our payroll alone. So what in gods name happens that puts us 10 games under? If MArbury breaks and ankle and Houston retires we still win 36 games.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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5/3/2004  2:02 PM
first off, spree and cassell were not there last year. so with wally and hudson hurt, spree and cassell effectively replaced them in the lineup this season - ALREADY making them a better team. i'll give you a gripe about olowikandi b/c he was supposed to replace nestorovic but we see how important a C was on that team to begin with. that's why you're injury thing using minny is not valid.

and if you think missing houston for 30 games on THIS team, during a period of flux with the roster AND coach is easily dismissable:

every team has injury problems for the most part, we had a realtively healthy year IMHO.

well then, i don't know what else to say.

excuses? whatever man, it's easy to say the knicks are making excuses but i think it's pretty evident that they are valid ones. you think we still get swept or win only 39 games with a healthy allan houston down the stretch of the season? please...
fishmike
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5/3/2004  2:04 PM
The Wolves only lost role players plain and simple. They were built around Spree, Cassel and an MVP named Garnett, all of which played healthy all year.

The Kings did not play well and lost several key games down the stretch without Booby JAckson. They didnt miss Webber because they upgraded Scott Pollard with Brad Miller.

But again.. a big whatever. We dont have a player as good as Garnett on our roster, or a front court as talented as any two of the Kings starters so whatever.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/3/2004  2:06 PM
it doesnt matter because BRIGGS would rather see us lose 60 games a year until 2010 with a bunch of High School kids.

Speaking of Brad Miller there's another guy. What great asset did the Kings give up to get him?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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5/3/2004  2:23 PM
Comparing loosing Houston and every other guy on this team time and again to the Wolves loosing Wally and Hudson is retarded. The Wolves started out the year w/out them and they added Spree adn Cassel. And oh, btw, they have this guy named KG who has not missed a game. KG alone is better then our entire team put together. So stuff it with Minny comparisons.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
fishmike
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5/3/2004  2:30 PM
hey.. I promise if we trade for Elton Brand I wont make any exuses if KT misses time because of his pinky. Deal?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Stevo718
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5/3/2004  2:34 PM
wally is just about as good as H2o by himself

is h20 better than webber?

Wally is nowhere as good as Houston, c'mon bro. Are you trying to lose credibility here on purpose?

And you could argue that Houston IS better then Webber, considering that Webber asses out at crunch time and he don't rebound or post anywhere as much as he should.
BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  2:51 PM
wally is nearly just as good as houston. and chris webber is another plain from either of those guys. losing KANDIMAN who you just paid 15mm for and had to replace with mark madsen and trenton hassell replacing wally z and having no replacement for hudson---you are talking about your starting C who averages 12-14 8 reb 2 blocks starting SF Wally Z who shoots close to 50% while averaging 17-18 points with 5 rebounds 3 assists[which is many ways is just as good as h2O] and one of the top 6th men in the league? these arent role players my man. and again chris webber is in a different class of player than anyone mentioned. injuries happen to every club the good ones the bad ones we had a reasonably healthy year bottom line. Look at the heat they had a roster full of nbdl players after their starting 6 and missed butler and wade for huge chunks of the season and they are still playing + they had a winning record AFTER starting 0-7. adversity hits almost every team--to say the knicks had some type of extra ordinary hardship is ludicrous and wrong. orlando hasnt had grant hill since they bought him, yet they have been in the playoffs every year except 1. lets not make excuses and stay on topic-lets not look through rose colored glasses and say we had something god awful worse when we didnt and lastly lets not over rate H2O by saying hes better than webber.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  3:02 PM
by the way this thread was entitled
" what do we do if we win 36 games next year if isiah was permitted to bring in an MLE another trade and we had a relatively healthy year" andrew was the only guy to respond to the question--all the other hub-bub was not neccesary

i dont know if it is plausible andrew to rebuild with younger players even if we fail next year at this point, but I would begin to put a plan together that started with using our draft picks and attempting to obtain more down the line. losing next year after spending so much money would be a huge red flag and there is almost no doubt that we would have to alter whatever we are doing now
RIP Crushalot😞
VDesai
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5/3/2004  3:06 PM
I don't think this is a valid question...I can't foresee a circumstance where we stay healthy and only win 36 games, especially if we add some decent players in here. We won 39 games without staying healthy and with a ridiculous amount of roster turnover.

If the 2% chance that it does happen takes into effect I would say bring in a new regime.
Stevo718
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5/3/2004  3:07 PM
Yeah your right... Wally is almost as good as an injured Houston. Haha.

And Webber is better then Houston, but he's not on another level, you kidding me? Webber is so overrated it's not even funny.

And to add to the argument...

Timberwolves had their top 3 players as mentioned before, Houston is our #2. TT our #3, and did I mention our frontcourt sucks big time?

Last thing, why do you like to over rate players that everyone under rates, and under rate players that everyone over rates? Are you just trying to go against everyone? What's the deal?

How fast everyone forgets the past here. Houston sucks now and Rasheed is awesome, but if you asked anyone 3 months ago on this board you woulda thought Rasheed was washed up. Funny. What you got here on this board is too many number crunchers.
BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  3:10 PM
why do you say that? we won a majority of our games against the losing clubs of the league

we were very good against the cellar dwellars horrible against the west and had a losing record vs team above .500 in the east.

if many eastern teams improve why couldnt we finish at 36 games?
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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5/3/2004  3:16 PM
houston and webber are 2 different level of players.

in the weak east--how many wins has H2O lead us to since we went to the finals in 99? sorry to say but if you add up the last 5 years we are WAY under .500 and that was with a healthy sprewell and thomas was a better player. Houston and Wally Z are about the same caliber of player believe it or not. If Wally Z was on the Knicks hed average over 20 points a game easily, but would also rebound much more and is a better passer with more size and athletic ability.
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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5/3/2004  3:26 PM
of course wally's better. i mean, at least houston has kurt to keep the defense honest.
question--if isiah gets to use the mle

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