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Marbury overrated
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rojasmas
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5/1/2004  8:31 PM
First of all, he doesn't shoot that well. Check his career field goal percentage. Second, he doesn't want to defend. Not even a little. So when your featured player doesn't have the desire to dee up why would the role players? Furthermore, his shot selection is atrocious, as was proven out in the Nets series. You can blame it on him having to do too much with TT and Houston out, but I don't think so. Also, can this guy hit a couple of big free throws now and then? He probably lost the last two games of the Nets series himself with his shot selection down the stretch and missed foul shots. Lastly, why couldn't he defend Jason Kidd in the Nets series. Why was he on Kerry Kittles and Frank Williams or Penny on Kidd most of the time? Is he that bad defensively even to his own coach? He is strong and quick, so it ultimately comes down to effort, and this appears to be a problem with "Starbury."
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Bizzy211
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5/1/2004  9:28 PM
I have one thing to say to you kid....
Check This out!!!
http://www.30mb.com/x/rady/marbury_in_action.wmv
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
tkf
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5/1/2004  9:44 PM
Are we really supposed to reply to this?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nadavshomron
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Israel
5/2/2004  9:42 AM
thats a great film guys
i think marb is one of the most talented PG in the NBA...and he is in his prime and we have him on our side...we must get the most out of him by getting players who fit he style of play(athletic talented young players).
we cant play him with a guy like kurt for a lot of minutes ,kurt just dont fit marbs style of play.
i think NAZR,TT,SWEETNEY fit marb style and ALLAN will strech the defence for him to drive/drive and dish.
we need to trade kurt for some young athletic guy.
marb will improve his game under coach willkins and zeke so dont worry about him.
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fishmike
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5/2/2004  10:52 AM
<flush>
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crzymdups
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5/2/2004  11:02 AM
That video restored all the faith I needed for next year. They really do need just need to add some pieces to take the load off Marbury, spread the floor, and most importantly - DEFEND THE PAINT.
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Silverfuel
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5/2/2004  6:42 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

First of all, he doesn't shoot that well. Check his career field goal percentage. Second, he doesn't want to defend. Not even a little. So when your featured player doesn't have the desire to dee up why would the role players? Furthermore, his shot selection is atrocious, as was proven out in the Nets series. You can blame it on him having to do too much with TT and Houston out, but I don't think so. Also, can this guy hit a couple of big free throws now and then? He probably lost the last two games of the Nets series himself with his shot selection down the stretch and missed foul shots. Lastly, why couldn't he defend Jason Kidd in the Nets series. Why was he on Kerry Kittles and Frank Williams or Penny on Kidd most of the time? Is he that bad defensively even to his own coach? He is strong and quick, so it ultimately comes down to effort, and this appears to be a problem with "Starbury."
You are wrong about every single thing you said!
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Chico
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5/2/2004  6:44 PM
i agree that his hideous shot selection (those 3's early in the shot clock? c'mon!) and shaq-esque free throwing in games 3 and 4 were bad, but the only reason we were even in those games was all because of him. the fact is, he had to take those shots, because, quite simply he had no one, absolutely no one to throw the ball to. check penny and shandone's percentages. if allan and/or tim were in the game and he jacked up those shots, it would be something completely different. blame jason collins (for knocking tim out of the series) and scott layden (for giving houston one of the most ridiculous contracts in the history of the league and then not forcing him to get surgery earlier in the summer, so his knee would've been completely healed at the beginning of the season, instead of forcing him to favor the other one until he ****ed that one up too) as much as stephon.

as far as the free throws, it is possible that exhaustion caused the poor performance at the line.

while sometimes marbury's court iq is questionable, he is certainly not overrated. As the only guard beside oscar robertson, to average more than 20 and 8 over a career, he is possibly the second best guard in the league currently and definitely the best we've had since clyde. (incidentally if you ask veterans from that era, they all rate oscar just over clyde and right behind west, who even jordan isn't sure if he could match up with in his prime)
martin
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5/2/2004  6:51 PM
this thread is overrated.
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EnySpree
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5/2/2004  7:29 PM
Posted by martin:

this thread is overrated.

Yup. Shut it down. Seal it up and send it into oblivion.
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rojasmas
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5/2/2004  8:20 PM
I know there is a soft spot for Marbury because he is one of our own. But he is not above criticism. I saw the playoff series and if you check his career playoff shooting percentage, not just this series, he is shooting around 38% for his career. Big players step up when it counts, he has never won a playoff series in his career, including Minnesota with Garnett and Phoenix with some decent players. I always loved the guy, but I have taken my blinders off and I am seeing reality with him for the first time. I also heard that Phil Jackson is not a fan of Marbury. This should tell you something. Sorry.
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BigSm00th
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5/2/2004  9:16 PM
"Big players step up when it counts, he has never won a playoff series in his career, including Minnesota with Garnett" Garnett just won his first playoff series, so why does everyone just give him a free pass? He needed two other All-Stars next to him to sneak past Denver, Marbury routinely plays with undertalented teams and one is an MVP and one is a bum? I don't understand.

Allen Iverson's career playoff shooting percentage is 38%. He led his team to a Finals.

The fact that Phil Jackson doesn't like him says nothing. Who has he liked? MJ? Kobe? That's a pretty short list, not to mention the fact that Kobe and Shaq don't even like him.
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martin
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5/2/2004  9:18 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

I know there is a soft spot for Marbury because he is one of our own. But he is not above criticism. I saw the playoff series and if you check his career playoff shooting percentage, not just this series, he is shooting around 38% for his career. Big players step up when it counts, he has never won a playoff series in his career, including Minnesota with Garnett and Phoenix with some decent players. I always loved the guy, but I have taken my blinders off and I am seeing reality with him for the first time. I also heard that Phil Jackson is not a fan of Marbury. This should tell you something. Sorry.

we'll do this step-by-step.

1) What is Marb's career shooting percentage, what is Kidd's?
2) With the clock winding down, who usually takes the shots?
2) How many playoff series did Garnett win before this year?
3) Who almost single handedly beat the Spurs last year in the playoffs?
4) What real supporting cast has Marb had in the playoffs?
5) Who gives two craps what Phil Jackson says?
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BRIGGS
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5/2/2004  9:26 PM
he's a great player but he's not a franchise player or if he's considered that, he's low on the totem pole. it's not really marbury's fault, he's not a saviour and they are kind of asking him to be that in a big mans' league. the NBA is a big mans game-- almost always dominated by the big man throughout it's history --with the exception of M J who was 6-6. isiah thinks that he was the dominant force on that detroit team and while he was arguably their best player Detroit was a team. the team imposed it's will, not any one player. thats why it is unfair to signal out marbury or to put unrealistic expectations on him. the knicks as a team are defecient is so many areas and thats the major problem. and we can sit up here and post this that and the other thing, but we all tend to forget there are 29 other teams who have needs and most of them dont have so many guaranteed contracts a 100 mm dollar payroll and 50mm in luxury tax payments. i guess we can sit up here and say we want steve jackson we want this guy but there are so many teams in a much better financial situation its not even close. does steve jackson command more money than the MLE? look at the list and then when can we say to Jackson we will give you this and guarantee you a starting position--and the answer is no.
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EnySpree
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5/2/2004  9:29 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

I also heard that Phil Jackson is not a fan of Marbury. This should tell you something. Sorry.

Phil won with Jordan and Pippen. The worlds greatest and the worlds most versitile.

Then he wins with the worlds most dominant player ever and the worlds best young shooting guard.

His offense doesn't need a guy like Marbury. Who cares what Phil says?

Marbury does make poor decisions with the ball sometimes but he is right up at the top of the leagues best point guards.

Kidd, Cassell, Nash, Baron, Francis,Payton, etc....Marbury competes with them all. Thank God the Knicks have him....or at least one of them.
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Bobby
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5/2/2004  10:56 PM
Before you start throwing daggers at one NY’s most prized possessions keep in mind Starbury plays in a gear similar to what JKidd does in Jersey, less the supporting cast of RJeff, Kmart, and Skittles.That’s why you see his poor shot selection due to players not down court in time to receive the rock. KVH gave a glimpse of what happens when you have players run the floor. The only problem was KVH running out of steam in the last 12 minutes. And in all fairness, judgment should not be passed until Steph has a full season in Wilken‘s system. Even then there’s no guarantee …..what happens if H20 is still hurt or TT disappears? Starbury will get the blame regardless, but if fans such as yourself want to appreciate Steph’s real worth get a MVP type player or meet a condition similar to what KG is working with.

That condition is no smoke signal to add Stephen Jackson either
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Caseloads
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5/2/2004  11:28 PM
in the NBA you now need 3 very good or 4 very solid players on a team at once...

anything less and your team just wont be able to make it. the days of two player teams are gone...

look at every "good" team. they are stacked with 1 all-star caliber player, maybe two or three all-star level players and two very good players to support the one or two all-stars that are the franchise.

then take a look at all the bad teams in the league. they usually all have 1 all star level player and everyone else on the team is either decent or young, and sometimes inconsistent or a combo of the 3.
posterchild
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5/3/2004  9:44 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by rojasmas:

I know there is a soft spot for Marbury because he is one of our own. But he is not above criticism. I saw the playoff series and if you check his career playoff shooting percentage, not just this series, he is shooting around 38% for his career. Big players step up when it counts, he has never won a playoff series in his career, including Minnesota with Garnett and Phoenix with some decent players. I always loved the guy, but I have taken my blinders off and I am seeing reality with him for the first time. I also heard that Phil Jackson is not a fan of Marbury. This should tell you something. Sorry.

we'll do this step-by-step.

1) What is Marb's career shooting percentage, what is Kidd's?
2) With the clock winding down, who usually takes the shots?
2) How many playoff series did Garnett win before this year?
3) Who almost single handedly beat the Spurs last year in the playoffs?
4) What real supporting cast has Marb had in the playoffs?
5) Who gives two craps what Phil Jackson says?
I bet martin and andrew are just a couple of little kids. They don't know what basketball truely is. It's not a one man sport; you need a team to win. One player could make enough of an impact though leading a team into oblivian.

Good post rojasmas.
read it and erase it cause this cite is overrated as some of the people that post are truely naive about what basketball is.
Frank Williams is the best knicks player this year. mad Respect
nykdunk
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5/3/2004  9:49 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

he's a great player but he's not a franchise player or if he's considered that, he's low on the totem pole. it's not really marbury's fault, he's not a saviour and they are kind of asking him to be that in a big mans' league. the NBA is a big mans game-- almost always dominated by the big man throughout it's history --with the exception of M J who was 6-6. isiah thinks that he was the dominant force on that detroit team and while he was arguably their best player Detroit was a team. the team imposed it's will, not any one player. thats why it is unfair to signal out marbury or to put unrealistic expectations on him. the knicks as a team are defecient is so many areas and thats the major problem. and we can sit up here and post this that and the other thing, but we all tend to forget there are 29 other teams who have needs and most of them dont have so many guaranteed contracts a 100 mm dollar payroll and 50mm in luxury tax payments. i guess we can sit up here and say we want steve jackson we want this guy but there are so many teams in a much better financial situation its not even close. does steve jackson command more money than the MLE? look at the list and then when can we say to Jackson we will give you this and guarantee you a starting position--and the answer is no.

The best post I've read in a long time.
kam77
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5/3/2004  10:36 AM
This thread shouldn't be deleted because Marbury IS overrated. I'm tired of players being called superstars when they are just good on one side of the ball. I love how everyone who disagrees with Rojasmas argues every single point that was brought up except the most glaring weakness is Marbury's game: DEFENSE!

Posterchild is right on. Not ncessarily about this forum's mods, but about the mindlessness of some of the people who post here.

This league is made up of three kinds of star players.

You've got your MVP-types (Garnett,Shaq,Duncan,Kobe,Jkidd)
You've yout your superstars (Jermaine,Baron,Rasheed,Peja,Tmac etc..)
You've got your all-stars (Houston,Cassell,Webber,Gasol etc... )


To win big, you must have one of the following on your team:
1 MVP and 2 all stars
1 MVP and 1 Superstar
2 Superstars and 1 All-Star

Obviously, a Superstar like Jermain O'neal is worth more than a Superstar like Marbury.

Knicks have:
1 Superstar and 1 All-Star at best, they gotta improve and if you have to trade Marbury to get that legit Superstar 4/5, then you have to do it.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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