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Why are fans so infatuated with draft picks for the NY KNICKS ?
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playa2
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1/18/2014  1:28 PM
Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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NardDogNation
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1/18/2014  1:42 PM
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?
Dagger
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1/18/2014  1:59 PM
Because draft picks are hope...
playa2
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1/18/2014  2:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/18/2014  2:06 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
CrushAlot
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1/18/2014  2:05 PM
It certainly makes good conversation when you talk about who the KNicks missed on. Metta, Rondo, Stephenson, Faried etc.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
playa2
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1/18/2014  2:15 PM
CrushAlot wrote:It certainly makes good conversation when you talk about who the KNicks missed on. Metta, Rondo, Stephenson, Faried etc.

Just tired of hearing the usual suspects talk about other teams and their draft picks they have.

The fan base in those smaller markets could truly love their team, but aren't as demanding for quick results and will wait to get the ship straightened out. They also don't pay astronomical prices to watch the games.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Nalod
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1/18/2014  2:16 PM
Playa has a point about not getting super high picks, so thats how you get franchise players. When you trade a player for a pick you trade for a proven commodity for an unproven one. In particular draft position. There is a lot of value in picks under the 8th spot!!!

you can win and lose in the draft. More picks, better chances. If you constantly trade for a proven commodity you do know what your getting, but lets be clear about one thing:

Its not working is it???????

So to answer your question playa, there is the answer: its not making progress is it? we seem to always been anywhere from 7-14th pick it seems. DLee did not get crushed by the media? Landry? Nate thrived as did Lin.

Marbury did not flurish, Eddy was a disaster, and Melo has done fine but the team is not succeeding is it?
Knicks22
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1/18/2014  3:45 PM

financial issue as well, obviously.
free agent signings usually much more expensive than drafted retained players. (see: David Lee vs Amare).

Teams can't build only through draft, but, building only through FA/trades isn't going to work either, especially in league where only way to move a player is to take a bad contract back.
franco12
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1/18/2014  4:06 PM
Knicks22 wrote:
financial issue as well, obviously.
free agent signings usually much more expensive than drafted retained players. (see: David Lee vs Amare).

Teams can't build only through draft, but, building only through FA/trades isn't going to work either, especially in league where only way to move a player is to take a bad contract back.

How much better would we be right now if we had kept David Lee? Hindsight is 20/20, but patience is needed when trying to build a roster. I think I could argue that we are where we are because Dolan has been impatient.
NardDogNation
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1/18/2014  4:25 PM
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?
gunsnewing
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1/18/2014  4:33 PM
Derek Jeter, brook Lopez, Eli manning, Patrick Ewing etc
MSG3
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1/18/2014  5:10 PM
It's not so much draft picks for me, but how little the Knicks value them in trades. To be fair, I didn't think the Bargs trade was terrible, but no one else would've given up 3 draft picks In a deal for him. Picks are very powerful in trades and should be used wisely. For example, if they didn't include a 1st rd pick in the Bargs trade maybe they make the deal for Lowry, which would have been a huge upgrade.
CrushAlot
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1/18/2014  5:17 PM
MSG3 wrote:It's not so much draft picks for me, but how little the Knicks value them in trades. To be fair, I didn't think the Bargs trade was terrible, but no one else would've given up 3 draft picks In a deal for him. Picks are very powerful in trades and should be used wisely. For example, if they didn't include a 1st rd pick in the Bargs trade maybe they make the deal for Lowry, which would have been a huge upgrade.

I look at the Bargs trade as giving up one pick, the first rounder that Denver has the right to swap. I think the two roster spots opened up by moving three players for one allows the Knicks to develop second round type talent in Tyler and Murry. My guess is both of these guys will be a lot better than whomever is taken with OKC's 2nd round pick.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
playa2
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1/18/2014  5:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/18/2014  5:41 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?


If the knicks had people with basketball knowledge & integrity when it comes to drafting and choosing young players like Pat Riley and the GM now in Washington then there would be some hope.

The knicks don't have anyone with those credentials making those kind of important decisions.

Isiah and Dolan Mills = Anucka Gate

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
NardDogNation
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1/18/2014  6:01 PM
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?


If the knicks had people with basketball knowledge & integrity when it comes to drafting and choosing young players like Pat Riley and the GM now in Washington then there would be some hope.

The knicks don't have anyone with those credentials making those kind of important decisions.

Isiah and Dolan Mills = Anucka Gate

Then the issue isn't drafting players. The issue is with our front office.
playa2
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1/18/2014  6:21 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?


If the knicks had people with basketball knowledge & integrity when it comes to drafting and choosing young players like Pat Riley and the GM now in Washington then there would be some hope.

The knicks don't have anyone with those credentials making those kind of important decisions.

Isiah and Dolan Mills = Anucka Gate

Then the issue isn't drafting players. The issue is with our front office.

And this is why valuing draft picks are for other franchises , not named the New York Knicks

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
NardDogNation
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1/18/2014  7:59 PM
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?


If the knicks had people with basketball knowledge & integrity when it comes to drafting and choosing young players like Pat Riley and the GM now in Washington then there would be some hope.

The knicks don't have anyone with those credentials making those kind of important decisions.

Isiah and Dolan Mills = Anucka Gate

Then the issue isn't drafting players. The issue is with our front office.

And this is why valuing draft picks are for other franchises , not named the New York Knicks

If they screw up picks, then they'll screw up trades and free agent signings just the same. By your reasoning, we shouldn't do anything with the team, ever.
playa2
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1/18/2014  8:22 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?


If the knicks had people with basketball knowledge & integrity when it comes to drafting and choosing young players like Pat Riley and the GM now in Washington then there would be some hope.

The knicks don't have anyone with those credentials making those kind of important decisions.

Isiah and Dolan Mills = Anucka Gate

Then the issue isn't drafting players. The issue is with our front office.

And this is why valuing draft picks are for other franchises , not named the New York Knicks

If they screw up picks, then they'll screw up trades and free agent signings just the same. By your reasoning, we shouldn't do anything with the team, ever.

No I didn't say that.

What I am saying is we need some integrity in the decision making process who you can trust to do the right thing. They have to build a team with guys who fulfill roles like the 1994 and 99 teams did. Guys who can still play who aren't injury prone, and they only purpose is to win and not just get paid the big bucks.

Melo is only hustling and doing everything (reb) because he wants the knicks to pay him well , just like JR did. This ain't rocket science. When he told the team he was testing free agency at the beginning of the season what player wanted to play with him as their leader.

Guys come to NY to pimp Dolan for his money, we need somebody like Allan Houston who has some integrity to play a role in the knicks resurgence to relevancy.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
arkrud
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1/18/2014  8:24 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
playa2 wrote:Still trying to figure out in 2014 Why all these posters keep clamoring about we need our draft picks to play for the NY Knicks.

You've been watching too many other small media market teams on league pass or internet to still have this outcry for them.

We will never have a team of youngsters we draft on this roster unless they are super high draft picks or #1 overall.

This MSG arena is the most media and fan frenzied pressure cooker for a home team to play in, arguably in the NBA.

The management has never valued draft picks because there is too much going on here (another reason we didn't draft Ron Artest and Brandon Jennings)

JR Smith is the example of a NJ (TRI-STATE KID) who got a lot of money,that was so hardheaded and immature that it ruined his potential earnings in the NBA.

Because there is precedent for the best NY players being drafted (see Derek Jeter, Patrick Ewing, Mariano Rivera, Eli Manning, etc.). Why did they succeed and others can't?

There will always be exceptions of mature individuals with people looking out for them (John Thompson)and EWING WAS #1 overall , be we are talking pro basketball here. Michael Ray Richardson comes to mind, guys would get so hooked that dealers were able to get them into shaving points in games.

I'm talking in 2014 from here out, why the outcry for draft picks for the NEW YORK KNICKS. ? This isn't Oklahoma !

That makes no sense. What makes the NY basketball so fundamentally different from the other major sports? And why can't we draft the same quality a person/player that the other NY franchises do?


If the knicks had people with basketball knowledge & integrity when it comes to drafting and choosing young players like Pat Riley and the GM now in Washington then there would be some hope.

The knicks don't have anyone with those credentials making those kind of important decisions.

Isiah and Dolan Mills = Anucka Gate

Then the issue isn't drafting players. The issue is with our front office.

And this is why valuing draft picks are for other franchises , not named the New York Knicks

If they screw up picks, then they'll screw up trades and free agent signings just the same. By your reasoning, we shouldn't do anything with the team, ever.

How anybody can expect that organization run by clowns like Dolan, Isiah, Mills, Huston, etc. will be any good in anything draft included? So I wood agree with playa - no need to do anything with this team.
Let them play their playground ball and have fun.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knickstorrents
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1/18/2014  8:47 PM
Actually, if you want to limit the damage a front office can do, draft picks are the way to go. With free agent signings and bad contracts, you can hamper a team for years (see Allan Houston). A rookie contract is very favorable for a team. If the rookie is a bust, it does not affect the salary cap that much.

It seems that our front office goes out of its way to things most damaging to a team.

Rose is not the answer.
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Why are fans so infatuated with draft picks for the NY KNICKS ?
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